NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[pz5151]

For how long before the season actually starts?
Token at best and would be surprised to see them stood down over it.

There is virtually no chance Clarkson or Fagan will be coach next year unless the allegations are found to be completely made up…which sounds pretty unlikely

 

[Chief]

I dont agree there is systemic racism in Australia. It's bullshit.

What leads you to believe this?

 

[Satan]

Robbo is on

 

[hyperfuzz]

I dont agree there is systemic racism in Australia. It's bullshit.

It's pretty clear you don't understand the meaning of the term sir.

 

[Number37]

Clarkson denied it, i have no idea what went on at Hawthorn.

My issue isn't how he reacted or why, my issue is how would he prove this happened in a court of law... because this is likely where it will head and his accusers could be facing a defamation suit where the accuser has the burden of proof.



True, but in terms of making a public statement that Clarkson is claiming didn't happen is potentially defamatory, you have to be careful about the things you say in public if you can't prove them.

I am not defending him, I have no idea what he did or didn't do. I can't see Clarkson and Fagan suiciding their careers on an anonymous probe, they will have to identify themselves and face the prospect of the painful legal ramifications if they can't prove what they said publicly.

It is the way our system works, someone is innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof is on the accusers.

One of the great things about our justice system is that our courts are open.
Anyone can walk into a court and listen to all kinds of accusations.
Judges only close courts for special reasons, mainly to protect minors.
Even if none of it is true, it will all be aired in court and published online in the court transcripts for anybody to read....before any verdict is reached.
That does not undermine anyone's right to the presumption of innocence.
It is only a presumption, it does not mean someone is innocent.
An accused is presumed innocent until somebody proves the allegation beyond reasonable doubt.
If they can't prove beyond reasonable doubt, that does not mean the person is innocent, it means that the allegation can't be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Coolangatta]

I find when it comes to racism concerning Indigenous people, it’s because of the crime rates and bad experiences people have with some leading to bias.

Stories like that 15 year old Indigenous girl attacking a pregnant woman on the street recently fuel the racist narrative that they aren’t like us.

So ask them if they think Indigenous people have a genetic predisposition to crime and violence. If the answer is yes, then that’s racism. Environmental factors clearly play a role in crime, ignoring that is stupid.

Genes do too, yes, but it isn’t race specific. To what extent it’s genes v environment we don’t know.

As for Clarkson and the allegations, why wound anyone lie about a terminated pregnancy? It seems more likely than yes he’s guilty but we will see.

 

[Chief]

Every country in the world has racism problems, racism is a part of the human brain designed to protect us from other tribes.

It’s a human problem, not a country one.

You don't think the political environment has an effect on this predisposition?

 

[dmc333]

Hard to believe he hasn’t read the article on the abc news website, it’s been on there since about 5 am.

Regardless, he still doesn't have the full picture to respond to.

 

[Chief]

Does anyone have an idea who the 3 players are?

No we're not doing that.

 

[RuFiO]

Robbo is on

It didn't get worse......it got bad.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Do you know what they mean, or are you just dismissive of anything that doesn't align with your pre-existing thoughts?

I know exactly what they mean, and I have said three times now I don't believe we have a systemic racism problem in Australia. Despite some politicians and media organizations bleating about it nonstop. What we do have in Australia, is an active propaganda campaign to divide us on racial, sexual and religious lines. Led by the mainstream media and politicians.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I dont agree there is systemic racism in Australia. It's bullshit.

Your either a racist or wilfully ignorant.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Descent]

You don't think the political environment has an effect on this predisposition?

Apparently all humans are racist, but they don’t construct racist systems. It’s a miracle!

 

[Number37]

You 'think' that it's less racist. It's just a different type of racism, satirical in nature which is disturbing in itself.

The reason you think it's less is because of what you see in other places. You need to realise alot of those countries are very isolated in terms of cultural mix which is why it's easy for racism to appear polarising. You'll see blatant direct racism in those countries whilst here we try to hide it behind closed doors and in satire.

If anything racism is alot more cunning here. It's harder to spot because of the nature of it, and as a result you have people suffering and feeling isolated behind closed doors for years just like this, all whilst perpetrators get away with it. It makes our job containing it even more difficult.

If you speak to any person on the end of the racism, they will all say it's pretty easy to recognise....our first peoples are sick of recognising racism happening to them only for someone to tell them, 'that's not racism'.

 

[passmark]

Just try to work out how often things went well for a) whistle blowers and b) indigenous sports people standing up for themselves.

That these brave people have raised this is enough for me.
They’re not doing this for their own benefit.

 

[mumblingpie]

If these are false accusations then I hope Clarkson and co sue the absolute shit outta the accuser(s)

 

[Satan]

It didn't get worse......it got bad.

Unlike the drug saga when he knew alot more then he wrote ., think he might go off

 

[Heisenberg_]

The Ben Roberts-Smith defamation case has just clocked $25m in legal fee’s.

Ben Russell is a good journo, but by god, it’s a massive hand to have played without waiting for comment from any of the accused parties.

Sounds very much like he gave them a call a few hours prior to the story going public and “no response” was deemed good enough.

I’m sure he’s having a few very interesting discussions at the moment with the top brass and legal council of the ABC.

Do you actually believe the story was published without getting ticked off first?

 

[Beerfish]

Unless the players are willing to remove their cloaks of anonymity, Im pretty much not interested tbh. If you can make the allegations, then sack up and be a man about it.

You've posted 23 times in here..

 

[demondavey]

What a staggering take.

We currently have allegations on the table with the accused not yet being able to respond. In due course the investigation will be run, the facts laid bare and a judgment made. That will and should be enough for most. You’re thesis relies on those that shoulder the extreme fringes of both sides whose minds unfortunately cannot ever be changed.

Relax a little pls.

I doubt it would be published without some pretty clear facts being obvious.

 

[chestbrah]

We all know that it isn’t a fringe number of Australians who are more inclined to trust Alastair Clarkson than the junior footballers in question. We all know the majority of people will stay comfortably silent, even if they do believe the victims.

Everyone should be encouraged to listen to the facts and let justice run its course.

 

[Chief]

What we do have in Australia, is an active propaganda campaign to divide us on racial, sexual and religious lines. Led by the mainstream media and politicians.

These politicians wouldn't ever be part of drafting racist laws, would they?

 

[Forward Press]

One of the great things about our justice system is that our courts are open.
Anyone can walk into a court and listen to all kinds of accusations.
Judges only close courts for special reasons, mainly to protect minors.
Even if none of it is true, it will all be aired in court and published online in the court transcripts for anybody to read....before any verdict is reached.
That does not undermine anyone's right to the presumption of innocence.
It is only a presumption, it does not mean someone is innocent.
An accused is presumed innocent until somebody proves the allegation beyond reasonable doubt.
If they can't prove beyond reasonable doubt, that does not mean the person is innocent, it means that the allegation can't be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Great rhetoric - but Clarkson, Fagan and Burt haven't been charged with anything and there is no indication they will. This is not a courtroom drama, lawyers may not get involved at all during this investigation apart from the KC tasked with looking into it.

You don't need to be proved 'beyond reasonable doubt' to have failed the character test or brought the sport into disrepute which can lead to AFL sanctions. The accusers may never be named or identified and they don't have to in order for the AFL to take action.

Ben Cousins wasn't convicted of any criminal charges before he got deregistered.

 

[demondavey]

Do you actually believe the story was published without getting ticked off first?

Literally one of the biggest football stories / news stories, 100% it’s getting ticked off.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Awful lot of morons here. Internet lawyers and people who rush to try and delegitimise Indigenous stories are gross.

1. The Hawthorn investigation doesn’t profess to be a thorough, two-way investigation. Nor should it be. It’s a statement of allegations made when they proactively reached out to Indigenous former players (presumably having identified a gap in post-career support for First Nations players.)

2. If your first response to these horror stories of trauma imposed on people because of their Aboriginality is “fk those guys, what about the powerful white guy” - you are gross, and you are probably racist.

3. Where tf did this notion of being of being “less racist” as a defence gone from? There no degrees of racism. You’re either racist or you’re not. And whether or not you want to believe Australia is still a racist country, you cannot deny that the country and the game are historically racist.

4. It’s why this story hurts so much - it demonstrates the inextricable links between racism, our national game, and our national identity.

5. Can the morons lay off the “defamation” bullshit? You don’t know what you’re talking about. Hawthorn have a log of allegations, ABC has reported on those allegations, the AFL has set up an independent group to investigate those allegations. You don’t get to sue people based on allegations. If someone in the workplace accuses me of bullying, I don’t get to then sue them if their accusation can’t be substantiated.