NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Well you can imagine what the GF press conference is going to be like.

 

[Doss]

Telling a newly drafted player to spend less time around mates that like to party all weekend or take drugs is not the same as telling a player to get their partner to have an abortion.

It defies belief that this needs to even be pointed out.

 

[Consolaçao]

Not far fetched but id also believe their intent wasnt to be monsters.

They try impose living conditions that work for most players, ignoring individual circumstance and cultural implications (though id argue suggesting abortion to anyone is crossing a line)

Suspect fagan and clarkson didnt think too much of it at the time, but the impact they've had is going to make it hard for both to continue

I suspect you’re right that there’s missing context.
Also, for those suggesting there’s no incentive for them to lie.. I’m not saying it’s the case here, but there are many, many cases internationally of racism hoaxes. For those interested, start with Jussie Smollett, which is a fascinating story… just last week there was a debunked (and totally bizarre) racism accusation with a college volleyball team in Utah. There’ve been books written about them. It’s a genuine phenomenon.
Again, I’m not at all saying these guys are making it up (or that racism isn’t real), just that there’s evidently an incentive in today’s culture to cast yourself as a victim of racial prejudice.

 

[tsane]

For an interesting read on dubious practices employed by afl clubs

Close scrutiny of indigenous AFL hopefuls: Is it racial profiling or responsible recruiting? - Mojo News

Young indigenous footballers are going through ever greater scrutiny in their bid to play for the AFL. While some argue that it's better that clubs are aware of any cultural or disciplinary issues before recruitment, others say it's blatant and outrageous discrimination that indigenous young men...

www.mojonews.com.au

 

[HairyO]

Well you can imagine what the GF press conference is going to be like.

I cant imagine anyone from Sydney or Geelong teams is going to respond to any questions. Nor should they have to.

That said, every club should be organising reports like these, but instead of waiting for the media to break the stories, those involved should be made aware of any allegations.

 

[Doss]

Well you can imagine what the GF press conference is going to be like.

That's the real annoyance here, to be sure.

 

[Neale4brownlow]

The allegations are extremely disturbing to say the least.

So much so I find it hard to imagine how anyone can act in such a manner?

Who decides that's a good course od action?
How could you look yourself in the mirror.

Any ounce of truth and anyone involved should be done from the AFL permanently. It's possibly also criminal?

We've read one version of events. I'm sure we'll hear the other soon.

And even if the truth lands somewhere in between...... grim....

 

[coldlunch]

FWIW I'd say a lot of countries are more racist than Australia.

I'd also say a lot of countries are in less denial about the racism that does exist.

agreed. our racism is particularly insidious because we are often so uncomfortable or unwilling to talk about it for fear of being lumped in with literal Nazis etc

 

[leon123]

Its possible they didn't know who Eddie was and its amazing how many clueless people there are but Eddie is one of the easiest going people you could meet.

Its irrelevant if it was Eddie B or not. NO relevance... NONE

 

[Redline]

The allegations are extremely disturbing to say the least.

So much so I find it hard to imagine how anyone can act in such a manner?

Who decides that's a good course od action?
How could you look yourself in the mirror.

Any ounce of truth and anyone involved should be done from the AFL permanently. It's possibly also criminal?

We've read one version of events. I'm sure we'll hear the other soon.

And even if the truth lands somewhere in between...... grim....

I am expecting more from the ABC in the mext week, Normally in these situations the journalist keeps a few things back to fire back when the expected denials come.

 

[Bombermania]

It defies belief that this needs to even be pointed out.

Its also a good lesson for the young player in knowing who their real mates are since real mates will remain mates while accepting the player has to focus on their footy career.

 

[Descent]

I suspect you’re right that there’s missing context.
Also, for those suggesting there’s no incentive for them to lie.. I’m not saying it’s the case here, but there are many, many cases internationally of racism hoaxes. For those interested, start with Jussie Smollett, which is a fascinating story… just last week there was a debunked (and totally bizarre) racism accusation with a college volleyball team in Utah. There’ve been books written about them. It’s a genuine phenomenon.
Again, I’m not at all saying these guys are making it up (or that racism isn’t real), just that there’s evidently an incentive in today’s culture to cast yourself as a victim of racial prejudice.

Lol. What do you think is the ratio of real racist acts to completely made up racist acts?

 

[Bombermania]

Its irrelevant if it was Eddie B or not. NO relevance... NONE

It was about Eddie and its weird anyone would be uncomfortable around him.

 

[ams4crows]

Jordan Lewis mentioned he has no idea and has called past and previous players white and aboriginal and they have no idea either.

Did you see how his demeanor changed when then Eddie said his piece and how he believes it and all the indigenous players are rallying around the players who spoke up and how brave they were and spoke to the AFL to about how they all felt about this. When they crossed back to Lewis he looked white as a ghost like he was absolutely shattered and as if he was going to throw up.

 

[Sphynx]

Last two minutes are interesting listening regarding Jackson on how he attempted to contact Fagan for comment, no mention of North/Clarkson.

 

[hyperfuzz]

So much so I find it hard to imagine how anyone can act in such a manner?

Who decides that's a good course od action?

Almost certainly it was because what they thought they were doing was in the best interests of the player through some sick logic. Likely in some cases the woman involved was seen as a destructive influence and they were doing it out of what they saw to be care, and nobody went against it. Outside the bubble of the club it can be see for what it is.

 

[coldlunch]

Does anyone else think that the ABC should have waited until after the GF to release this? It’ll end up negatively affecting indigenous players/coaches - the very people that the report is supposed to be standing up for.

damned if you do, damned if you don't. wait a week and then the timing becomes all too convenient, who are they protecting, what did the AFL cover up etc. just report the story when it's ready.

 

[Del28562]

It is bloody inconvenient but this is bigger than us/our coach. But they need to sort this s**t out.



How do you even do that without sacking your coach or making it untennable for them to return?

I am not sure about an exoneration, the more serious claims would have to be maliciously fictional which would give cause to doubt the motivation behind the rest of the claims but seriously, it is not something you can even think about until there is a formal process and those accused get to face their accusers and give their version of events.

You almost don't want it to be true because you don't want to believe people couldn't be that cruel with other humans.

You wouldn't print the article without seeing the partners emails to the club, there's a police report, there's movie g houses, change of phone number, moving in with an assistant coach, there's are easy things for a journalist to find. Then there's similar themes within the three stories as well. This is like clarko still thought the stolen generation was a good idea, its barbaric

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

like most, I’m shocked at the goings on here.

One question here though - whilst these various situations came out via a racism review and therefore the reporting relates to indigenous players, were these the only questionable events at hawthorn during this time directed. Ie were they all directed at the indigenous players only (ie race motivated) or was there an even broader environment of player abuse going on (ie systemic).

 

[HirdsTheWord]

semantics of systematic vs. systemic.....is this really the key issue to resolve here?

imo I think it’s important to understand the difference.

calling out systemic racism shows it’s not just the elderly couple being racist, but also the lifeguard who acted on their request to have Eddie removed from the pool, rather than just telling them to **** off.

This is systemic racism to a tee.

 

[jenny61_99]

So how independent is it ? Any time the AFL call something independent you know a fix is on

An external panel of 4 people including a King’s Counsel, as well as an indigenous representative and culturally diverse.

 

[Sphynx]

You wouldn't print the article without seeing the partners emails to the club, there's a police report, there's movie g houses, change of phone number, moving in with an assistant coach, there's are easy things for a journalist to find. Then there's similar themes within the three stories as well. This is like clarko still thought the stolen generation was a good idea, its barbaric

There was also up to 4 other people in the room during these allegations as he mentions “coaches” (plural), all of which he didn’t attempt to contact or corroborate.

I think you are overestimating it tbh.

 

[the big lebowski]

Maybe a positive to come out of all this would be for the afl to have an indigenous welfare dept that sits down with all draftees as they enter the system and is a point of contact throughout their career.

If anything is happening that shouldn’t be, they can report it there straight away, taking it out of the clubs hands.

 

[Consolaçao]

Lol. What do you think is the ratio of real racist acts to completely made up racist acts?

Low.
It was just a response to those saying there was no incentive to lie.

 

[JackOutback]

I suspect you’re right that there’s missing context.
Also, for those suggesting there’s no incentive for them to lie.. I’m not saying it’s the case here, but there are many, many cases internationally of racism hoaxes. For those interested, start with Jussie Smollett, which is a fascinating story… just last week there was a debunked (and totally bizarre) racism accusation with a college volleyball team in Utah. There’ve been books written about them. It’s a genuine phenomenon.
Again, I’m not at all saying these guys are making it up (or that racism isn’t real), just that there’s evidently an incentive in today’s culture to cast yourself as a victim of racial prejudice.

Racism is a genuine phenomenon. A handful of random incidents is not.