News Hawthorn Racism Scandal

[RussellEbertHandball]

They're not unwilling to provide new evidence, they're unwilling to keep retelling their story. What new evidence is there?

It has been told, there is supposed to be documentation that supports their claims.

Appoint the panel to independently review the claims and get on with it.

Clarko and co. and I reckon Gordon will want cross examination. You wont have a KC as investigation head and senior barrister doing the grunt work, according to McGuire, who will say that no cross examination is needed. I can see a stalemate occurring.

The AFL could threaten de-registration if a player doesn't respond to his attendance requests from the panel, but that might cause another shit storm altogether.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Clarko and co. and I reckon Gordon will want cross examination. You wont have a KC as investigation head and senior barrister doing the grunt work, according to McGuire, who will say that no cross examination is needed. I can see a stalemate occurring.

The AFL could threaten de-registration if a player doesn't respond to his attendance requests from the panel, but that might cause another s**t storm altogether.

If they're going to turn it into an adversarial process, it may as well go straight to court.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

If they're going to turn it into an adversarial process, it may as well go straight to court.

That's why its going to go on for a long time and why Damian Barrett came out the other day and said he can't see Clarko and Fagan coaching Rd 1 next year.

The penny finally dropped after the GF booze and good time fests were over. If Gil has any smarts he will set up the panel and leave on 31st of October like his original plan. Its going to be a quagmire.

He can leave with TV deal and Tassie settled and let the next person worry about this and other stuff. From the list I said Gil has basically locked in his successor(s) for 9 years into, after the TV deal was signed;

TV deals
Tassie
AFLW
AFLW Pay structure - part I announced earlier this year but new TV monies lock in their full time by 2026 goal and 2030 best paid sportswomen.
CBA for men
Docklands
Monies for a national reserve comp

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

This extract from the report, under LIMITATIONS, confirms my belief that the job is only half done.
Its not just a limitation, but a monster limitation.
It is the lack of a "control experiment",
and potentially changes the concept of racism to generalised poor treatment of recruits. I've mentioned it before.

 

[El Zorro]

This extract from the report, under LIMITATIONS, confirms my belief that the job is only half done.
Its not just a limitation, but a monster limitation.
It is the lack of a "control experiment",
and potentially changes the concept of racism to generalised poor treatment of recruits. I've mentioned it before.
View attachment 1521353

Why would you need a "control experiment". Are you implying that, if they treated white players similarly, is not racism and everything is OK?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

 

[Rexie J]

If they're going to turn it into an adversarial process, it may as well go straight to court.

That's the whole basis of our legal/justice system.

For all allegations/statements to have any credibility there must be the opportunity for cross examination. It doesn't have to be the theatrical performance as seen in many Court cases. Establishing facts must be the sole objective.

Police and the legal profession encounter a multitude of allegations on a daily basis but unless they can be corroborated, they remains simply allegations.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

That's the whole basis of our legal/justice system.

For all allegations/statements to have any credibility there must be the opportunity for cross examination. It doesn't have to be the theatrical performance as seen in many Court cases. Establishing facts must be the sole objective.

Police and the legal profession encounter a multitude of allegations on a daily basis but unless they can be corroborated, they remains simply allegations.

So why should the families subject themselves to some half-arsed AFL endorsed adversarial process which will have no effective outcome? The AFL has a history of protecting its own. The article linked above states that less than 20% of players who experienced racism were completely satisfied with the way it was handled.

The AFL is not a legal system unto themselves in a case such as this.

 

[Rexie J]

So why should the families subject themselves to some half-arsed AFL endorsed adversarial process which will have no effective outcome? The AFL has a history of protecting its own. The article linked above states that less than 20% of players who experienced racism were completely satisfied with the way it was handled.

The AFL is not a legal system unto themselves in a case such as this.

I will not make any comment re the AFL and any speculation on how, what or why they may or may not do.

I was simply pointing out uncorroborated or untested allegations are simply that, allegations. Therefore all parties must have the right to be heard.

What people decide to do is entirely up to them. Again, that is no reference to the current situation.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I will not make any comment re the AFL and any speculation on how, what or why they may or may not do.

I was simply pointing out uncorroborated or untested allegations are simply that, allegations. Therefore all parties must have the right to be heard.

What people decide to do is entirely up to them. Again, that is no reference to the current situation.

And I was saying do that, but do it in court. If the AFL is trying to set up an 'independent' adversarial process, why should the complainants agree to that, given the AFL history of looking after its own.

I'm really not sure why you quoted me in the first place to make your point, given I was clear that it should go to court if it is going to be an adversarial situation.

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

Why would you need a "control experiment". Are you implying that, if they treated white players similarly, is not racism and everything is OK?

Indiscriminate incompetence is not racism.
That is why you need a control

 

[gbear]

The AFLPA late to the party as usual. They are almost as crap as the Nurses union.

 

[gbear]

And I was saying do that, but do it in court. If the AFL is trying to set up an 'independent' adversarial process, why should the complainants agree to that, given the AFL history of looking after its own.

I'm really not sure why you quoted me in the first place to make your point, given I was clear that it should go to court if it is going to be an adversarial situation.

I agree Ford, it should just go to court. The AFL and it’s boys club needs to be put under the microscope, otherwise it will be just swept under the carpet and these issues will just pop up again. There is no transparency when it comes to the AFL. If the allegations are true to any degree the afl and the HFC among others need to be held acoountable legally and civilly.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Q&A to have Alan Jones’ opinion on the Hawks scandal. They would call it #balance I guess.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I agree Ford, it should just go to court. The AFL and it’s boys club needs to be put under the microscope, otherwise it will be just swept under the carpet and these issues will just pop up again. There is no transparency when it comes to the AFL. If the allegations are true to any degree the afl and the HFC among others need to be held acoountable legally and civilly.

Why?

The only people who probably want this to go to court are the 3 coaches. They will want to create a plausible deniability case if it gets down to he said vs he said, and discredit those making the allegations. and sue for some sort of defamation.

Do the players and their families want this in court, and rack up a huge legal bill when an outcome isn't certain? Do they trust the legal system?

The AFL don't want this in court. They don't have any control. They don't want their dirty laundry in the courts. The clubs don't want it.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Q&A to have Alan Jones’ opinion on the Hawks scandal. They would call it #balance I guess.

Was Fraser Anning busy?

 

[gbear]

Why?

The only people who probably want this to go to court are the 3 coaches. They will want to create a plausible deniability case if it gets down to he said vs he said, and discredit those making the allegations. and sue for some sort of defamation.

Do the players and their families want this in court, and rack up a huge legal bill when an outcome isn't certain? Do they trust the legal system?

The AFL don't want this in court. They don't have any control. They don't want their dirty laundry in the courts. The clubs don't want it.

The AFL is going to struggle to sweep this one under the carpet. I have no doubt that over the next decade the AFL will be settling a few cases outside of court.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Jeff Kennett releases first public comments on shock Hawthorn report

See the full statement here.

www.sen.com.au

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Veteran football manager Peter Jess, who has litigated against the AFL over player concussions, said civil cases were an inevitable outcome given the “plethora” of reported breaches and violation of rights of Indigenous footballers in the report.

“Litigation on several fronts will flow, there’s no question of that; not only the direct participants but their family members, unless there are early interventions to prevent it,” he said.

‘No question’: Hawthorn likely faces legal action over Indigenous player claims

If the allegations in the report by former Richmond player Phil Egan prove true, legal experts say, they are serious enough that the club could face claims alleging discrimination and investigations by regulators.

www.theage.com.au

And as it is a civil case, proof will be on balance of probabilities not beyond reasonable doubt as in criminal cases.

 

[Tibbs]

I see Damien Barrett's latest on this saga... Calling for a review of the review, so the future reviews dont need any more reviewing by the reviewers!

Ok.

 

[Capital Power]

I see Damien Barrett's latest on this saga... Calling for a review of the review, so the future reviews dont need any more reviewing by the reviewers!

Ok.

Was just thinking. What our sport really needs is more lawyers .

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Was just thinking. What our sport really needs is more lawyers .

And reviews.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

It has been stated or implied that the three former Hawthorn employees named in the story were denied a fair opportunity to properly respond to the ABC’s reporting.

This is incorrect.

On Monday 19 September and into the following day all three were contacted multiple times by the ABC, via email, phone call and text message. Also contacted were the media teams at Hawthorn and the Brisbane Lions and the personal management of one of the individuals.

They were provided with all relevant information about the allegations. They were asked detailed and open-ended questions that gave them the opportunity to fully respond to all the allegations.

After initially receiving no response, the ABC contacted all the parties again and offered them more time in which to respond. We again received no response to the questions.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Misleading and Deceptive Representations are everywhere.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Fresh allegations emerge of Alastair Clarkson’s controlling behaviour

The details surround Alastair Clarkson’s treatment of Sam Mitchell during the 2011 season, the year the player’s wife Lyndall gave birth to twin girls and the family was beset by a number of confronting health problems.

www.theage.com.au