Hawthorn's involvement in the drug saga?

[Harper_Hawk]

Young kids are easily influenced. Do footballers have a responsibility to this because they are in the media spotlight?

 

[Off The Couch]

Young kids are easily influenced. Do footballers have a responsibility to this because they are in the media spotlight?

No

If I'm relying on a footballer to act as a role model for my kid then I'm in for a world of pain and if my kid decides to emulate a player and focuses on his off field stuff rather than how they play footy then I would be taking a long hard look at what sort of role model I've been.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hi Echols,

Firstly, I think a person needs to decide on whether or not they regard footballers, or any top sports people, as role models, particularly for young, impressionable kids. I personally think they are, and they are often portrayed as such. I also think that this can be a big burden to bear, and that they are most certainly entitled to their private lives. Nonetheless, I believe it is a responsibility they need to be prepared to live with, and at the very least for the duration of their playing careers, need to be seen to be doing the right thing. Their job does, after all, see them attend schools and work with children in other settings. There are several occupations where this is the case.

Taking illegal drugs, is not the right thing. They are effectively breaking the law. Not a good message to be sending. Particularly by such high profile individuals.

Sure it's a persons right to participate in risky behaviour, and there are plenty of activities that fit this bill that aren't illegal - sky diving and bungee jumping come to mind. However, I think there is a very good reason that some risky behaviours are illegal - and that is because not only is there a bloody good chance of that behaviour having an adverse effect on the individual, but there is also a better than even chance it could impact on others.

While smoking places a strain on our health services, I think we're slowly winning the war on that one, and the habit itself doesn't seem to be as heavily associated with crime, such as theft, muggings, breaking & entering, etc, as drugs are, and while a singularly stupid thing to do, as you said, it's not illegal (for adults, anyway).

No, there's nothing pleasant about having an ambulance roll up at 3:00 am carrying some idiot, bloodied, covered in vomit and urine, who has absolutely no idea where they are or what is going on, and who then decides that it would be a good idea to lash out at the people trying to help them. Sure you can get the same reception from some drunks, but the incidence of blood-borne diseases escalates when it's a drug user.

Sorry, but I fail to see one good or beneficial thing about them, and would support any move to encourage the players of our game to avoid them.

I don't really see footballers as role models.

I don't want my kids to look to footballers for life guidance. I certainly don't think they need to know about what that player does on a Sat'd night to let his hair down.
I want them to enjoy seeing their favourite player kicking the ball through the sticks and winning games of football. I want them to be able to get their jumper signed, and get a photo.
I don't expect that that player needs to adhere to any strict moral or ethical guidelines outside of football, on the basis of what my child may want to copy. Ultimately, as a parent, that would be my duty.

The thing about footballers is, they're just young virile males with money and time on their hands. Just like any males their age, they'll push the boundaries, they'll experiment.....I don't see why this needs to be a huge issue, when what they are doing is no different to the 22yr old who works at the local bottle shop and smokes some weed on a friday night after work, or the 23yr old who is studying Economics at Monash and likes to go to Eve to try to pick up chicks.

I know we value footballers because they are literally club property, and so we don't want them out and about on the town making dicks of themselves or giving the club a bad name by extension, but I also think that players have the right to lead a "normal" life, full of risk and reward. Calls for players to abstain from drugs, alcohol and smokes, when society is so full of people with responsibility in their own careers doing as they please on a weekend, just seems a bit too much to me.

I'd prefer our players to be perfect little angels, sipping on water, and putting 9pm curfews on themselves, but it's just unrealistic, and especially in this day when there's just so many alluring and seductive past times to be had that are considered to be common amongst their peers.

 

[Hawkas1988]

I don't really see footballers as role models.

I don't want my kids to look to footballers for life guidance. I certainly don't think they need to know about what that player does on a Sat'd night to let his hair down.
I want them to enjoy seeing their favourite player kicking the ball through the sticks and winning games of football. I want them to be able to get their jumper signed, and get a photo.
I don't expect that that player needs to adhere to any strict moral or ethical guidelines outside of football, on the basis of what my child may want to copy. Ultimately, as a parent, that would be my duty.

The thing about footballers is, they're just young virile males with money and time on their hands. Just like any males their age, they'll push the boundaries, they'll experiment.....I don't see why this needs to be a huge issue, when what they are doing is no different to the 22yr old who works at the local bottle shop and smokes some weed on a friday night after work, or the 23yr old who is studying Economics at Monash and likes to go to Eve to try to pick up chicks.

I know we value footballers because they are literally club property, and so we don't want them out and about on the town making dicks of themselves or giving the club a bad name by extension, but I also think that players have the right to lead a "normal" life, full of risk and reward. Calls for players to abstain from drugs, alcohol and smokes, when society is so full of people with responsibility in their own careers doing as they please on a weekend, just seems a bit too much to me.

I'd prefer our players to be perfect little angels, sipping on water, and putting 9pm curfews on themselves, but it's just unrealistic, and especially in this day when there's just so many alluring and seductive past times to be had that are considered to be common amongst their peers.

Well said

 

[tommyk72]

Someone mentioned before the concept of making drugs legal in Australia. While i'm not going to open that barrel of fish in this thread, I think it'd definitely time that is looked at. The reason that I say that is that this entire thread I wasn't even thinking about the fact drugs were illegal. They've now become so common place across two generations worth of kids that I hadn't even taken that into account when thinking about my previous responses. But lets remember that they are illegal - hence in a very different bucket the other addictions I mentioned before.

That said, why should drugs be treated any differently than any other illegal activities? Club imposed suspensions and mediation from within the club? Same as drink driving, or jumping on the bonnet of someones car, etc, etc?

 

[sydney_hawka]

The whole saga was a Political stunt designed to take the ALP off the front pages of every newspaper. The ACC concluded their investigations 5 months ago, and found "no" real evidence. I don't think we have anything to be concerned about, other than the game being tarnished by a self-serving government trying to make something out of nothing. Thats my take on it.

 

[Davo23]

The whole saga was a Political stunt designed to take the ALP off the front pages of every newspaper. The ACC concluded their investigations 5 months ago, and found "no" real evidence. I don't think we have anything to be concerned about, other than the game being tarnished by a self-serving government trying to make something out of nothing. Thats my take on it.

Exactly

Press Conference led by a government minister is an obvious clue.
The other clue is that no sportsman has tested positive: that's no sportsman of ANY sport.

And no charges against any sportsman or any of the "organised criminal gangs"

It's a load of political garbage.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Exactly

Press Conference led by a government minister is an obvious clue.
The other clue is that no sportsman has tested positive: that's no sportsman of ANY sport.

And no charges against any sportsman or any of the "organised criminal gangs"

It's a load of political garbage.

Ben Cousins never failed a test either. Neither did Lance Armstrong.

The investigation is ongoing, and regardless of what politician wanted to get his head in front of the camera, I think you'd have to have your head in the sand to think that there's absolutely nothing going on in regards to drugs in sport.

 

[Madhawknut]

I think it's time to close this thread!!!

I'd rather talk football and the season ahead!!

 

[sydney_hawka]

Ben Cousins never failed a test either.

The investigation is ongoing, and regardless of what politician wanted to get his head in front of the camera, I think you'd have to have your head in the sand to think that there's absolutely nothing going on in regards to drugs in sport.

They have no PROOF, and have admitted that already.

All Clubs exploit the Rules / Laws / Boundaries. Do they break them, show me the proof. Don't come out and tell the world we have an endemic "performance enhancing" drug problem in Australian Sport, then when asked for PROOF, tell us you have nothing.

Not good enough, and they should know better. Unforunately, the ALP are in survival mode and will do / say anything to divert attention from their own misgivings.

SPORT is the victim this time. Who is next??

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

They have no PROOF, and have admitted that already.

All Clubs exploit the Rules / Laws / Boundaries. Do they break them, show me the proof. Don't come out and tell the world we have an endemic "performance enhancing" drug problem in Australian Sport, then when asked for PROOF, tell us you have nothing.

Not good enough, and they should know better. Unforunately, the ALP are in survival mode and will do / say anything to divert attention from their own misgivings.

SPORT is the victim this time. Who is next??

The investigation is ongoing.

 

[sydney_hawka]

The investigation is ongoing.

If it is as you suggest, then why the "press conference"? Are they really serious about catching the crooks, now that they have alerted them.

Give me a break!!!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If it is as you suggest, then why the "press conference"? Are they really serious about catching the crooks, now that they have alerted them.

Give me a break!!!

There have been many articles talking about the length of this investigation and just how long it may take. It is ongoing and will encompass many different levels of sport and administration.

 

[Argy]

They have no PROOF, and have admitted that already.

All Clubs exploit the Rules / Laws / Boundaries. Do they break them, show me the proof. Don't come out and tell the world we have an endemic "performance enhancing" drug problem in Australian Sport, then when asked for PROOF, tell us you have nothing.

Not good enough, and they should know better. Unforunately, the ALP are in survival mode and will do / say anything to divert attention from their own misgivings.

SPORT is the victim this time. Who is next??

I don't agree that the AFL is using it to divert attention from themselves, but this whole saga is beginning to smell like McArthyism at its worst.

So far all we have is smear, fear and innuendo from the authorities. They put fear into the Australian public by saying the problem was endemic to ALL professional sport. They smeared all professional sportsmen and women. They smeared all professional codes. Yet they have laid no charges, and all they can do is say the investigation is "ongoing".

Throughout this whole saga the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" has been thrown out the door. Unless charges are laid soon this will go down as one of the biggest farces in sporting history. The ACC must put up or apologise for the innuendo and smear it promoted.

 

[Argy]

There have been many articles talking about the length of this investigation and just how long it may take. It is ongoing and will encompass many different levels of sport and administration.

The "length of the investigation" is no excuse for the poor way the ACC and the politicians hav gone about this. If investigations were so far from being complete as we're told then it should not have been announced the way it was. I expected charges to be laid within days, but all we've seen is fear, smear and innuendo.

By announcing it as they did they have given the criminals time to cover their tracks. If this was such a big problem as the ACC says then they should have spoken in confidence to the various administrators in the different codes and told them to change the way they do things.

This whole thing is beginning to smell very strange.

 

[sydney_hawka]

I don't agree that the AFL is using it to divert attention from themselves, but this whole saga is beginning to smell like McArthyism at its worst.

I wasn't talking about the AFL and diversionary tactics, that reference was to the ALP. Agree with the rest.

 

[Davo23]

Ben Cousins never failed a test either. Neither did Lance Armstrong.

The investigation is ongoing, and regardless of what politician wanted to get his head in front of the camera, I think you'd have to have your head in the sand to think that there's absolutely nothing going on in regards to drugs in sport.

Get your drug tests corect: they've accused sportsmen everywhere of the widespread use of Performance Enhancing Drugs. That's the great concern of the drug testing agencies.

The announcement was the equivalent of the police having a Press Conference to announce that no-one was caught doing 120 kph on the Monash last week, but please come forward and admit it, and feel free to dob someone in.

And then saying "we're after you, so watch out!"
( By the way, I'm saying nothing about my speed last week!)

This board is full of rumours, and the danger is that we all take the rumours as truth.

Why not wait until someone is actually charged with something?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Get your drug tests corect: they've accused sportsmen everywhere of the widespread use of Performance Enhancing Drugs. That's the great concern of the drug testing agencies.

The announcement was the equivalent of the police having a Press Conference to announce that no-one was caught doing 120 kph on the Monash last week, but please come forward and admit it, and feel free to dob someone in.

And then saying "we're after you, so watch out!"
( By the way, I'm saying nothing about my speed last week!)

This board is full of rumours, and the danger is that we all take the rumours as truth.

Why not wait until someone is actually charged with something?

The report actually refers to PED's and illicit drug use.

I'm pretty sure we are waiting. But we're also discussing the use of drugs in society, and the instance of them being used in sport without any tests actually catching people out.

 

[eldorado]

As soon as a footballer comes out and says "Kids, take drugs!", I'll accept that they need to have action taken against them as poor role models.

Until then, I believe they have the same rights as any other citizen, which is to have their actions monitored by the legitimate authority, the police, and judgements made by the relevant authority, the judicial system.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

At the centre of the ACC investigation is organised crime and where their dirty tentacles reach; one of them is sport in general and one of those sports is AFL.

It is beholden on a taxpayer funded body such as the ACC to forward progress reports of investigations to the Government and inform other interested parties such as ASADA. If a situation arises where the relative bodies consider the information is so alarming then once again it is beholden on the Government to inform us (the Taxpayer and more importantly Citizens). That is exactly what happened.

Because of the nature of the ongoing investigations any press conference, press release or statements given by the Government, ACC and ASADA are restricted by the need for confidentiality. Subsequently those bodies and especially the Government will only release information that will not put at risk those investigations. Once again, that is exactly what happened. Why are so many having a problem with that?

The above mentioned bodies are not required to answer to hysterical media reporting and, one could say, especially BigFooty. I can easily imagine the outcry if they did not release what details they could and failed to keep the public informed. On leaving the checkouts at Coles and Woolworths all would be bedazzled by the 10 cm headlines of the papers - GOVERNMENT COVERUP.

Anyhow that is how I see it. I expect many to disagree with me and am happy to engage in a calm and rational debate with any intelligent correspondent.

I will not respond to posts by any of those who have chosen to make this a political issue whether it is for or against the Government.

 

[sydney_hawka]

LMOG - I simply "do not" believe a word that comes out of the ALP's collective traps. We shall agree to disagree.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

At the centre of the ACC investigation is organised crime and where their dirty tentacles reach; one of them is sport in general and one of those sports is AFL.

It is beholden on a taxpayer funded body such as the ACC to forward progress reports of investigations to the Government and inform other interested parties such as ASADA. If a situation arises where the relative bodies consider the information is so alarming then once again it is beholden on the Government to inform us (the Taxpayer and more importantly Citizens). That is exactly what happened.

Because of the nature of the ongoing investigations any press conference, press release or statements given by the Government, ACC and ASADA are restricted by the need for confidentiality. Subsequently those bodies and especially the Government will only release information that will not put at risk those investigations. Once again, that is exactly what happened. Why are so many having a problem with that?

The above mentioned bodies are not required to answer to hysterical media reporting and, one could say, especially BigFooty.I can easily imagine the outcry if they did not release what details they could and failed to keep the public informed. On leaving the checkouts at Coles and Woolworths all would be bedazzled by the 10 cm headlines of the papers - GOVERNMENT COVERUP.

Anyhow that is how I see it. I expect many to disagree with me and am happy to engage in a calm and rational debate with any intelligent correspondent.

I will not respond to posts by any of those who have chosen to make this a political issue whether it is for or against the Government.

And for those who've not seen it, here's a link to "Offsiders" this morning, which disucss the extent of the ACC investigation and just how far it will reach.
http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/program/1066277

 

[QuietB]

Can someone explain to me how there could possibly be votes or any political advantage at all in taking action against the 4 largest sporting codes in the country?

Conspiracy theories that this is all just politics are ridiculous.

 

[hawk65]

Can someone explain to me how there could possibly be votes or any political advantage at all in taking action against the 4 largest sporting codes in the country?

Conspiracy theories that this is all just politics are ridiculous.

The only way I can imagine is by deflection. Takes the media spotlight of the govt and onto to stuff hat really matters to most of us

 

[Rhayader]

If it is as you suggest, then why the "press conference"? Are they really serious about catching the crooks, now that they have alerted them.

Give me a break!!!

Shake the tree, see who falls out. The underlying message of the press conference was "we have some information, come forward now and co-operate with the investigation, dob in your suppliers and your punishment will be less severe"

I'm not saying this is the case, and I have no idea what - if any - evidence they have. But that as what I took from it.