List Mgmt. Hayden Ballantyne

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M_rash said:
Think he was a restricted free agent this year - meaning he's one of the top paid at the club. With the increased TPP, Fyfe not really chewing that up, no monster signings on the cards (that we know of), I'm guessing ballas won't be seeing much of a salary decrease - I mean, we gotta pay someone.

If I put my optimistic hat on, I look at how bad Walters was as a small forward this year. He only improved after heavily rotating through the midfield. I'm hoping that's a sign that any small forward would struggle in our team atm, and somehow, maybe, hopefully we improve next year and ballas can snag 30+.

When I remove that hat, I think shit, what a waste of a list spot. Couldn't we just sign Liam Ryan as a rookie instead?
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Walters kicked 46 goals in 2013, the year we made the grand final as a forward pocket/Half forward flanker. But he was consistent that year. he wold kick 3 1 week, 4 another week, have a bad game and kick 1 the week after then kick another 3 or 4. He had 1 bad game every month. He never kicked 5 goals in a game until this year, he kicked no more than 4 on his best game, not that it was a bad thing.

Yeah Walters kicked 22 goals from 18 games this year. So it wasn't his best year by any stretch. Still, that 6 goal and 30 odd possession game vs the cats in Geelong was a beautiful sight to see. Imagine if Walters did that every home game?!!:D
 
benfica said:
You sure about that? Zac Dawson played our 1st 2 games and both were crap games. Once Ross Lyon went full on youf policy, Dawson was behind Hamling, logue and Collins. Danyle pearce practically suffered the same fate too.

yeah but there is one difference ross has basically given up all thoese players except ballas
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There is a reason why Ballantyne was given a contract for next year. How many small forwards in our current side can kick more than 25-30 goals in a season? I can only see Walters and a fully fit Harley bennell do that. Danyle Pearce has a contract until 2018, if he was out of contract, he would of been gone too.

Ballantyne has been a good servant for this club and has put in 100% of his effort every time he plays for freo too.
 
meima said:
Again how many depth player you want in a rebuild ? Who will go before him , Dawson retire.

The players you want them to be depth player so far.
1) ballas
2) Griffin
3) Collins
4) not sure about Zach Clarke
5) maybe tab also
6) mj to mentor the defence ( not depth )

Under contract
1) spurr
2) sutty
3) d.pearce
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1st off, this has been our 1st long rebuild since the 2007-9 period. Back in 2008, Geelong had the oldest list but at least made the grand final. Freo had the oldest list and finish 14th. We only had 6-7 players aged 23 or under. This season we have at least double that number of players aged 23 or under.

As it stands now, Freos picks are picks 5, 40, 55, 58, 77, 95 and 113.

As it also stands now that Yarran, Ibbo and Dawson have retired. Balic apparently wants out. Tabs, Collins, Griffin, Clarke, Johnson are all out of contract.

Bare minimum is 3 players gone by retirement. Potentially we could have 7-9 players on our main list gone. Meima, this is a full rebuild, not a half way or partial rebuild.

Ballantyne was either going to be gone this year or get a 1 year deal, his fate had very little to do with freos current situation
 

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benfica said:
You sure about that? Zac Dawson played our 1st 2 games and both were crap games. Once Ross Lyon went full on youf policy, Dawson was behind Hamling, logue and Collins. Danyle pearce practically suffered the same fate too.

yeah but there is one difference ross has basically given up all thoese players except ballas
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So you saying the other players' points have run out or that your statement that "if you have enough points in the bank you are playing NO MATTER WHAT" is inaccurate?
 
Freomaniac said:
Walters kicked 46 goals in 2013, the year we made the grand final as a forward pocket/Half forward flanker. But he was consistent that year. he wold kick 3 1 week, 4 another week, have a bad game and kick 1 the week after then kick another 3 or 4. He had 1 bad game every month. He never kicked 5 goals in a game until this year, he kicked no more than 4 on his best game, not that it was a bad thing.

Yeah Walters kicked 22 goals from 18 games this year. So it wasn't his best year by any stretch. Still, that 6 goal and 30 odd possession game vs the cats in Geelong was a beautiful sight to see. Imagine if Walters did that every home game?!!:D
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Oh yeah - don't get me wrong, Walters has been awesome and had another great season. But he struggled to kick goals playing primarily as a small forward in the first 6 rounds this year. He kicked 5 goals in those 6 games, including 3 against the dogs. So 2 goals from the other 5 games.

Small sample set, but those 6 games are on par with what ballas produced this year. So I'm hoping the inability of our small forwards to regularly impact the scoreboard is more a function of game plan, than personelle - given we all know Walters is a gun but even he struggled. I'm clutching at straws, but hoping we can fix whatever ails us and see ballas slam home 30+ sausage rolls.
 
M_rash said:
Oh yeah - don't get me wrong, Walters has been awesome and had another great season. But he struggled to kick goals playing primarily as a small forward in the first 6 rounds this year. He kicked 5 goals in those 6 games, including 3 against the dogs. So 2 goals from the other 5 games.

Small sample set, but those 6 games are on par with what ballas produced this year. So I'm hoping the inability of our small forwards to regularly impact the scoreboard is more a function of game plan, than personelle - given we all know Walters is a gun but even he struggled. I'm clutching at straws, but hoping we can fix whatever ails us and see ballas slam home 30+ sausage rolls.
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Yeah I agree, those 6 games at the start of the season wasn't good. Then Again, our forward line was inconsistent regardless who were the 6 blokes up forward were.

Its weird going to say this. I actually looked this up. Freo scored 1607 points. take away that point and we averaged 73 points a game. Also I added up the total goals we kicked this year... it was 221 goals from 22 games take away that goal. And its 220 goals or exactly 10 goals a game.

So practically Freo kicks 10.13.73 on average in 2017. That's not good, and we got 8 wins and 14 defeats and 14th spot. It proves that the gap between our best and worst has a huge difference.

There were times freo were bad and kick 5-7 goals and we got pumped heavily. There were times freo kicked 12-13 goals and we were competitive too.
 
Additionally I don't think list management is as random as some seem to be suggesting.They would be clear on what we do and don't need or want.They would be fairly certain about who is a chance to come and how likely it is that a deal can be cut.You'd imagine they've been doing the numbers for months.
There may already be in principle agreements which can't be announced until the trade and draft periods open.
TPPs,next years academy and promising looking draft etc...it's a complex juggling act.
I could easily be wrong but the fact that he's signed now may not mean he's a higher priority than someone they're targeting who cannot be signed or announced yet.
I'm thinking this will be low on the controversy metre come the end of the drafting/trading period.
 
M_rash said:
Oh yeah - don't get me wrong, Walters has been awesome and had another great season. But he struggled to kick goals playing primarily as a small forward in the first 6 rounds this year. He kicked 5 goals in those 6 games, including 3 against the dogs. So 2 goals from the other 5 games.

Small sample set, but those 6 games are on par with what ballas produced this year. So I'm hoping the inability of our small forwards to regularly impact the scoreboard is more a function of game plan, than personelle - given we all know Walters is a gun but even he struggled. I'm clutching at straws, but hoping we can fix whatever ails us and see ballas slam home 30+ sausage rolls.
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Not to shoot down the theory, but Sonny started the year playing injured.
 
DeanS said:
Sorry to hijack the Ballas thread but do people really see A Pearce coming back after 2 years out and holding down CHB for the season. Maybe at Peel but not Dockers.
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Fyfe a seasoned champ battled to come back from a broken leg, why would an inexperienced player in Pearce be any different. Pearce has not been on the track for the whole of the just gone season. Those hanging their hats on Pearce holding down KB will be disappointed. Johno on aging legs or Collins who at the minute is a good WAFL player will be the go. I know I get shot down on my opinion of a lack of KD's but I think its as bad as our KF personal. Apeness and Pearce as KP's are both coming of long lay offs with serious injuries. Toss of a coin what we need most, KD or KF.
 
salim malik said:
Fyfe a seasoned champ battled to come back from a broken leg, why would an inexperienced player in Pearce be any different. Pearce has not been on the track for the whole of the just gone season. Those hanging their hats on Pearce holding down KB will be disappointed. Johno on aging legs or Collins who at the minute is a good WAFL player will be the go. I know I get shot down on my opinion of a lack of KD's but I think its as bad as our KF personal. Apeness and Pearce as KP's are both coming of long lay offs with serious injuries. Toss of a coin what we need most, KD or KF.
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Don't players need to play in order to come back from injuries? eg Fyfe. Why would APearce be any different, like you say? Won't he need a spot in our B22 next season to get back to his best? How will adding a KPD to take that spot away from him help that cause?

PS. Not getting shot down Salim. It's just a debate.
 
wayToGo_ said:
Don't players need to play in order to come back from injuries? eg Fyfe. Why would APearce be any different, like you say? Won't he need a spot in our B22 next season to get back to his best? How will adding a KPD to take that spot away from him help that cause?

PS. Not getting shot down Salim. It's just a debate.
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Fyfe and Pearce are two different kettle of fish and even the almighty Fyfe has struggled getting back to anywhere near his best. Pearce has not been out on the track for months and will be going into pre season with out any miles in the legs. Almost impossible to get back to any where near the fitness level with that kind of prep. Its only my opinion but I think Pearce will be eased back through Peel and then there is no guarantee he will stand up . Apeness ditto. Hence my opinion we need KP,S at both ends. We have stand ins or 2nd 3rd talls but not a lot in genuine decent talls.
 
salim malik said:
Apeness and Pearce as KP's are both coming of long lay offs with serious injuries. Toss of a coin what we need most, KD or KF.
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It's really not. We have a plethora of defenders and no forwards. I know you really like Naughton but we have 5 key defenders on the list already.
 

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ydraw said:
It's really not. We have a plethora of defenders and no forwards. I know you really like Naughton but we have 5 key defenders on the list already.
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You keep saying this but who are these key defenders you speak of. Logue isnt, Johnson is cooked, Pearce is coming of a 2 year lay off, Collins is a good WAFL defender, Cox is a forward and is playing forward. Ubergang has shown nothing and probably gone.The only fit decent KD we have is Hamling.
Forward half much the same. Tabs, Cox, McCartney, Strat . The defence is marginally in front with KP's in Hamling but realistically both ends are in trouble. The midsize at both ends are well covered.
 
salim malik said:
Fyfe a seasoned champ battled to come back from a broken leg, why would an inexperienced player in Pearce be any different. Pearce has not been on the track for the whole of the just gone season. Those hanging their hats on Pearce holding down KB will be disappointed. Johno on aging legs or Collins who at the minute is a good WAFL player will be the go. I know I get shot down on my opinion of a lack of KD's but I think its as bad as our KF personal. Apeness and Pearce as KP's are both coming of long lay offs with serious injuries. Toss of a coin what we need most, KD or KF.
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I suspect AP will play a bit this year (if all is tracking rightly) - but you're right to caution our expectations. He's going to be coming from a long way back and, unlike Fyfe as you example, he doesn't quite have the pre-season conditioning and match experience that Fyfe had too. It will be close to starting again really.

Of course, his first start was so good that you know what he's got in him, but you don't just slot back into it coming back from that sort of injury.
 
ydraw said:
It's really not. We have a plethora of defenders and no forwards. I know you really like Naughton but we have 5 key defenders on the list already.
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A 'plethora', lol. There's like only 1 in Hamling that we can bank on 100% going forward.
 
Kram said:
A 'plethora', lol. There's like only 1 in Hamling that we can bank on 100% going forward.
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Yeah I realise that Salim has invented reasons to write all the rest of our key defenders off to justify drafting Naughton but that doesn't mean that anyone else agrees with him.
 
ydraw said:
Yeah I realise that Salim has invented reasons to write all the rest of our key defenders off to justify drafting Naughton but that doesn't mean that anyone else agrees with him.
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Read my posts, I said its a toss of the coin what we need most. KD or KF. Both ends are in trouble and my opinion is Naughton is a home grown product who has shown he can stand up against the bigger bodies and could solve the defensive problem.. If the club thinks Brander or who ever is what the club needs I will be just as pleased. Youre invested in the KF camp, fair enough . Its my opinion and I'm entitled to it as much as you are.

PS why do we need a KF if Tabs is as good as you say he is. Tabs along with Apeness, Cox, McCarthy, Strad, Kersten is as you say a plethora of forwards. They might not all be up to scratch but there's plenty on the list.
 
salim malik said:
Read my posts, I said its a toss of the coin what we need most. KD or KF.
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Yeah I read your post and nah you're wrong, we obviously need KF more and anyone in Australia will tell you that, including Ross Lyon.

I disagree we are in trouble in the backline. Hamling and Alex Pearce are both very good key defenders. Pearce isn't "injury prone", he just had 1 very bad injury that is unlikely to recur. His broken leg is not at all a similar situation to Morabito or Apeness who had multiple knee injuries.
 
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ydraw said:
Yeah I read your post and nah you're wrong, we obviously need KF more and anyone in Australia will tell you that, including Ross Lyon.

I disagree we are in trouble in the backline. Hamling and Alex Pearce are both very good key defenders. Pearce isn't "injury prone", he just had 1 very bad injury that is unlikely to recur. His broken leg is not at all a similar situation to Morabito or Apeness who had multiple knee injuries.
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Pearce is an unknown now. Hamling and an injured Pearce, OK who are the rest of these gun Key defenders. Pearce has had two very bad injuries the second a complication of the 1st . The injuries have kept him out for the best part of 2 seasons. If thats not injury prone then I dont know what is . Pearce is a risk thats a fact but you never let facts get in the way of a good story .
 
salim malik said:
Pearce has had two very bad injuries the second a complication of the 1st . The injuries have kept him out for the best part of 2 seasons. If thats not injury prone then I dont know what is . .
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"Injury Prone" would be someone who has a history of a certain kind of injury. A broken leg is just bad luck, as is having complications from a broken leg because a doctor ****ed up. Having broken a leg previously doesn't make it more likely you'll break your leg again (assuming it was given enough time to heal), unlike having a history of ACL or PCL or soft tissue injuries which does.

Pearce is not an unknown. He may not play until half way through 2018 depending on recovery, but he's not really in the same situation as Apeness who might never be able to play a season of AFL without reinjuring his knee. And we already know Pearce can play.
 
ydraw said:
"Injury Prone" would be someone who has a history of a certain kind of injury. A broken leg is just bad luck, as is having complications from a broken leg because a doctor ****** up. Having broken a leg previously doesn't make it more likely you'll break your leg again (assuming it was given enough time to heal), unlike having a history of ACL or PCL or soft tissue injuries which does.

Pearce is not an unknown. He may not play until half way through 2018 depending on recovery, but he's not really in the same situation as Apeness who might never be able to play a season of AFL without reinjuring his knee. And we already know Pearce can play.
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How do you know the doctor stuffed up. Complications happen for a multitude of reasons . Not playing until halfway through 2018 would be 2 and a half years out of the game and surely would make him an unknown. Surely you can see that its a dicey situation. I wouldnt be placing all my eggs in the Pearce basket as the KD of our future. I still maintain that Hamling is our only fit and decent KD at the minute going into the future and I still maintain both ends are in need of KP,s. Anyway lets agree to disagree and hope the club makes the right decisions draft wise.
 

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List Mgmt. Hayden Ballantyne

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