HFC - 'The Mini Rebuild'

[Great 2008]

I recently had the opportunity to sit back and watch the 2008 Finals Series consecutively. The comprehensive wins against the Saints and Doggies were terrific followed by an even greater win on the last day in September. However, I have come to the conclusion that the HFC has been forced into the position of a 'mini rebuild'. Some may argue that this is an ongoing process with all clubs, however I believe our situation is unfortunate and somewhat unique.

The players whose influence could not be understated in all three of these finals (with perhaps the unfortunate exception of Croad in the GF) are listed below:

Shane CRAWFORD: The heart and soul of the finals series. In all three games he ran hard and was a constant option for players in a tight spot i.e players looking to release a quick handball under pressure. Once in possession his sure handling and skill got us out of numerous high pressure situations. He is gone /retired.

Trent CROAD: Was still developing into a premier full back imo. Pace, strength, a great leap and booming kick. He was the lynchpin of the backline. He is gone / injured. The club could not envisage this loss and he had several years left to play. (Don’t shoot me down / just my view / hope he plays again). Despite opinion his position is vacant.

Robert CAMPBELL: Hard working, under rated ruckman. Was solid in all three games in the fashion all fans became accustomed too. The club would have been hoping for many more years of service from BOB as the younger rucks developed. Gone / early retirement.

Stewart DEW: What else can you say, sublime kick, turned the GF on its head with his big body. The Cats could not pin him in a tackle all day. Clarkson recently said he had been hoping for more games from Dew an admission of sorts that the injuries were hurting. Gone / early retirement.

Mark WILLIAMS: Player of the finals series IMO and was particularly good in the prelim. against the Saints and in the GF. A bit disappointing that he left the club as he was an exceptional 3rd forward. Asked for a trade? The club does not have a ready made replacement.


OTHER


Tim BOYLE: Supporters never got to see the best of Tim. He was a talented footballer who all going well would still have been at the club. Early retirement.


Considering we are one of the youngest sides in the league the above players are big losses in a developing side. Crawford is the only player that you could attribute to ‘natural football attrition’ i.e retirement, delisting. The club has been forced into trading / a mini rebuild, to find replacements for these players rather continuing the ‘youth policy’. It is going to be difficult to play in consecutive finals series unless we plug the holes left by these great players. Burgoyne and Gibson will help.

 

[RustyHawk]

You could argue that Stuart Dew was only going to be a short term player for the Hawks but your right about the rest with Willo, Campbell, Croad all being unavailable for this season.

Considering Campbell & Croad are key position players down that all important spine and Willo was a sometimes member of that group, very serious losses for the club.

Just got my first look at Jarrod Kayler-Thomson today. Seriously is ready to play senior football. Seems to be a good pick up by the club.

 

[Number 24]

Crawford..fact
Croad...fact
Campbell...fact
Dew...fact
Williams...fact
Boyle...fact

At all clubs players at the older, middle and young leave the club. Age, injury, not fitting the club needs.

Others come into the list. Some are young, some are older.

None of this is a surprise. The list cannot remain static. Trageted recriuting is the essence of the Pelchen method. That is what the club has done.

So what exactly is your point ????

 

[Scream]

I woudnt see it as an unfortunate/negative thing. The fact is we won a flag before we we all expected as the young players we have performed at a higher than expected level. The recruitment of Burgoyne and Gibson was always part of the Pelchen plan in 2009 to try and cover some of the losses that we and all teams have. See the bright side, the young guys are starting to hit there prime and I can see good things happening over he next 4 - 5 years!

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

I woudnt see it as an unfortunate/negative thing. The fact is we won a flag before we we all expected as the young players we have performed at a higher than expected level. ......

I am not sure about this thinking.

Like the OP said a third of the 2008 team pretty much peaked and exploded in September 2008. You could probably throw Young into that list as well. 6 of any starting 18 is a fair chunk.

What it does show was how important it was to get Burger and Gibbo.

 

[Great 2008]

Crawford..fact
Croad...fact
Campbell...fact
Dew...fact
Williams...fact
Boyle...fact

At all clubs players at the older, middle and young leave the club. Age, injury, not fitting the club needs.

Others come into the list. Some are young, some are older.

None of this is a surprise. The list cannot remain static. Trageted recriuting is the essence of the Pelchen method. That is what the club has done.

So what exactly is your point ????

Was just making some observations based on the 2008 finals series. Sure the loss of Crawford to retirement was a given. Just hinting that we may still may have to be a bit patient at times with this group. The club may would have expected 2 - 5 more years game time from the rest and could not possibly have planned to any great extent for this eventuality. Hence we may have to 'build' our side to a small degree. Geelong for example have had a stable side for years with a 'static list' which has obviously done them no harm whatsoever. We have lost the above players unexpectedly. I am still cautiosly optimistic about this year however.

 

[Dermie The Kid]

Crawford..fact
Croad...fact
Campbell...fact
Dew...fact
Williams...fact
Boyle...fact

At all clubs players at the older, middle and young leave the club. Age, injury, not fitting the club needs.

Others come into the list. Some are young, some are older.

None of this is a surprise. The list cannot remain static. Trageted recriuting is the essence of the Pelchen method. That is what the club has done.

So what exactly is your point ????

Geelongs is still the same after the last 3 years !

For a young team who is on premiership contention and has just won a flag, we have lost too many experienced players in the last year or two. Big names too.

 

[Yuley95]

Sure the loss of Crawford to retirement was a given.

I think you might also add that the retirement of Dew was a given. He was brought in to be a solid body and experienced head for the young blokes to benefit from and that they did - but he was never part of the long game.

I really liked Willo but got the feeling they were asking him to be a player he wasn't. By that I mean he was an excellent leading forward but in the setup, he was forced into more of a crumbing/small forward roll and I don't think it suited him as well. So with the development of other players such as Moss/Hooper etc we may find he isn't too hard to cover. And while his 'replacement' may not be up to his level as a marking forward they might end up better suited to the role they are asked to play.

Boyle is a player I liked and wished he could have gotten more out of his body but I think he was probably more of a depth player than anything. It's a shame because he would've walked into the starting 22 of many teams without the names Roughead and Franklin in the forward line.

Loved Bob but he wasn't elite and, as has been posted on here previously, you get more out of an elite midfielder than an elite ruckman so I am happy we got Burgoyne instead of chasing someone like Jolly.

Croad is the one that really hurts IMO. But we have hope in Boots and Gibbo looks likely so, again, he shouldn't leave too much of a gap in the years to come.

All in all, I think you are right that we have a few gaps to fill but most of them are within reason and although we would benefit from a more stable lineup, we still have 17 premiership players and a few exciting prospects...

 

[Great 2008]

I think you might also add that the retirement of Dew was a given. He was brought in to be a solid body and experienced head for the young blokes to benefit from and that they did - but he was never part of the long game.quote]


To back up my view. Dews retirement was not a given. Was never far away but not a given.

P.17 Hawthorn Year Book 2009

Alastair Clarkson commenting on Dew's retirement at the press conference,"We were hoping it (games played) might be about 40 or 45 games over three years...............It's been 26 games over two but he's achieved what we wanted him to achieve and that's playing in a premiership with this great footy club"

 

[mustardnugget]

Geelongs is still the same after the last 3 years !

For a young team who is on premiership contention and has just won a flag, we have lost too many experienced players in the last year or two. Big names too.

Was thinking the same thing.

Either way, the next Hawthorn team to raise the premiership cup will be recognizable only by the lynch-pins remaining from 2008.

Don't know if you could call it a rebuild, but definitely a renovation of sorts...

 

[Henry Jr]

Was just making some observations based on the 2008 finals series. Sure the loss of Crawford to retirement was a given. Just hinting that we may still may have to be a bit patient at times with this group. The club may would have expected 2 - 5 more years game time from the rest and could not possibly have planned to any great extent for this eventuality. Hence we may have to 'build' our side to a small degree. Geelong for example have had a stable side for years with a 'static list' which has obviously done them no harm whatsoever. We have lost the above players unexpectedly. I am still cautiosly optimistic about this year however.

Don't mind N24, although the Xmas holidays are upon us and the road toll is thru the roof, he has yet to find an ambulance to chase down....

He's just a bit grumpy this time of year

 

[DannyJ]

Crawford- Burgoyne
Croad- Gibson & Schoenmakers
Williams- Hooper
Campbell- Taylor (however Renouf 2010, will be a lot better tha Renouf 2008 so it compensates the loss of Campbell for Taylor a bit more)
Dew- The position a young player needs to grab hold of. We have plenty of options.

Boyle- Dowler can effectively play games in this role now. 2008 he couldn't do this.

I think analysing it, we have doen extremely well to cover the losses of these players through trading/drafting.

Looking forward to 2010.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

.

A plus out of our gruesome misfortunes of 2009 allowed scope for Clarko to afford invaluable game time for emerging players, certainly a boost for Benny McGlynn, 16, Schoey, chalked up 13 games, Beau Dowler, 13, Liam Shiels, 11, Travis Tuck, 11, Cam Stokes, 10, Brendan Whitecross, 10, Garry Moss, 9, Jarryd Morton, 9, Beau Muston, 8, Shane Savage, 3, Riley Milne, 2, Matthew Suckling ,1.


A small taste of the big-time for Savage, Milne and Suckling will be quite invaluable for those youngsters and the team. First match nerves out of the way is a bigger deal for our kids than what we supporters realize.

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[9soontobe10]

I also have just come off watching the Hawks play in the 08 finals series. And my comment to my son, gee we missed Clinton Young this year.

Enough said.

 

[latrell]

All of these losses will be negated by the natural progression and improvement of our list.

All other contenders are on the decline -

Geelong
StKilda
Bulldogs

The football public has never seen anything like what they'll witness when Buddy & Cyril hit their peak.

 

[Goldnbrown]

My observation is, if we had lost the 2008 GF to Geelong, we would have had the same losses and the same retirements, so it shows the value of grabbing every opportunity

 

[HawksILove]

.
Great 2008

Mark WILLIAMS: Player of the finals series IMO and was particularly good in the prelim. against the Saints and in the GF. A bit disappointing that he left the club as he was an exceptional 3rd forward. Asked for a trade? The club does not have a ready made replacement.

Most things I agree with you, but with Mark Williams I reckon we have Rhan Hooper is ready made to take Williams spot.

 

[cradle of filth]

The losses in the midfield and defense from Crawford and Croad were addressed in the recruitment of Shaun Burgoyne and Josh Gibson. Rhan Hooper and Beau Dowler will hopefully fill the void left by Stuart Dew and Mark Williams. That leaves of course, the ruck. Wayde Skipper is not a very good player and i doubt anything will change with his move to Hawthorn. He's just insurance and ideally he would not play a game next season. Sam Grimley and Luke Lowden are light years away from a senior influence and Max Bailey is a write off for 2010. This will be an area of the ground that we can only be competitive in. There won't be any dominant performances in the ruck next year. However, i don't think that this will be quite as much of an issue as it appears to be. In the 2006 grand final Dean Cox mopped the floor with Darren Jolly and Stephen Doyle yet the eagles won that game by only a single point. Luckily, the two best ruckman in the competition(Dean Cox and Aaron Sandilands) are both playing for terrible teams that won't be bothering us in september.

 

[beau river]

I think we can win the flag next year.

That is all.

 

[beau river]

Actually, one more thing. I think Stratton will suprise a few people next year.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

All of these losses will be negated by the natural progression and improvement of our list.

All other contenders are on the decline -

Geelong
StKilda
Bulldogs

The football public has never seen anything like what they'll witness when Buddy & Cyril hit their peak.

Yes, lats. There are cracks in the armour of those three teams. Our fractured team of 2009 has been mended – solidly. I believe we have the troops to conquer the Cats, Saints and Doggies. Essendon will be a blood-bath. The rest will lay in our wake.

Forward men! Onto the battlefield of 2010.


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[On the Boyle]

Agree with all comments but Willo.
I've said it before, at the end of 2008 I would have been devastated for him to leave. At the end of 2009, I was happy we got something for him.
In the games I saw, he didn't want to work for the ball and was injury prone.

While we can speculate on what he contributed in 2010, IMO we have lost very little towards our 2010 campaign in losing him.

 

[Number 24]

A point to keep in mind is that the HFC have done something no other side has done and that is to load up the list with cherry picked kids. There was an early recognition that drafting over the next few years will be severly impacted by GC17 and the second Sydney sides.

The HFC were both brave and clear headed to see the opportunity to load up ahead of the drought. That then leaves us the capacity to inject older, more experienced players to the list on a needs basis depending on how the " kids" develop.

A case in point is Sheils. This kid can play. He is tough. He has great running capacity as seen by his games in 2009 and what he has done in the pre season to date. Is he the new gut busting runner that Crawford was.

Clarkson has been keen for a long time to have a mid sized utility player who can go forward, back and ruck. Whamo, here is Skipper. Is Skippper the replacement for Bobby Campbell who also went forward, back and rucked and was not overly tall ??

Clarkson has said for years the HFC can't win a flag with Mark Williams as the focal point in the forward line. He became the third, fourth forward. He has gone but in comes Hooper. There are also a few players already on the list that are being earmarked for a medium sized forward role, to wit Morton, Peterson, Osborne and so on. The other thing Williams provided was the ability to go to a wing (see the second half to the 2008 GF) and provide run. Nothing has been lost in that department with Williams going. We have Jnr Burger, Morton, the new boy K-T, Young back (?), Savage and a few others who can kick a footy really well.

Croad is gone !!! So in comes Gibbo. The Schoe looks like he is going to be huge. Murphy has built up.

It's all in the forward planning and if people look at what has gone and what has come in, it will be seen there is a plan in place and it is being implemented to manage the list for now and for the future.

So I still don't see the point the original poster was making when he started this thread. Sorry young Henry, I know ambulance chasing can deflect ones concentration but all this seems pretty bloody obvious to me, even when on the run the moment I hear a siren in the distance, hehe

 

[pipcoo]

A point to keep in mind is that the HFC have done something no other side has done and that is to load up the list with cherry picked kids. There was an early recognition that drafting over the next few years will be severly impacted by GC17 and the second Sydney sides.

The HFC were both brave and clear headed to see the opportunity to load up ahead of the drought. That then leaves us the capacity to inject older, more experienced players to the list on a needs basis depending on how the " kids" develop.

A case in point is Sheils. This kid can play. He is tough. He has great running capacity as seen by his games in 2009 and what he has done in the pre season to date. Is he the new gut busting runner that Crawford was.

Clarkson has been keen for a long time to have a mid sized utility player who can go forward, back and ruck. Whamo, here is Skipper. Is Skippper the replacement for Bobby Campbell who also went forward, back and rucked and was not overly tall ??

Clarkson has said for years the HFC can't win a flag with Mark Williams as the focal point in the forward line. He became the third, fourth forward. He has gone but in comes Hooper. There are also a few players already on the list that are being earmarked for a medium sized forward role, to wit Morton, Peterson, Osborne and so on. The other thing Williams provided was the ability to go to a wing (see the second half to the 2008 GF) and provide run. Nothing has been lost in that department with Williams going. We have Jnr Burger, Morton, the new boy K-T, Young back (?), Savage and a few others who can kick a footy really well.

Croad is gone !!! So in comes Gibbo. The Schoe looks like he is going to be huge. Murphy has built up.

It's all in the forward planning and if people look at what has gone and what has come in, it will be seen there is a plan in place and it is being implemented to manage the list for now and for the future.

So I still don't see the point the original poster was making when he started this thread. Sorry young Henry, I know ambulance chasing can deflect ones concentration but all this seems pretty bloody obvious to me, even when on the run the moment I hear a siren in the distance, hehe
Perfect well done number 24, spot on man.

 

[Number 24]

A point to keep in mind is that the HFC have done something no other side has done and that is to load up the list with cherry picked kids. There was an early recognition that drafting over the next few years will be severly impacted by GC17 and the second Sydney sides.

The HFC were both brave and clear headed to see the opportunity to load up ahead of the drought. That then leaves us the capacity to inject older, more experienced players to the list on a needs basis depending on how the " kids" develop.

A case in point is Sheils. This kid can play. He is tough. He has great running capacity as seen by his games in 2009 and what he has done in the pre season to date. Is he the new gut busting runner that Crawford was.

Clarkson has been keen for a long time to have a mid sized utility player who can go forward, back and ruck. Whamo, here is Skipper. Is Skippper the replacement for Bobby Campbell who also went forward, back and rucked and was not overly tall ??

Clarkson has said for years the HFC can't win a flag with Mark Williams as the focal point in the forward line. He became the third, fourth forward. He has gone but in comes Hooper. There are also a few players already on the list that are being earmarked for a medium sized forward role, to wit Morton, Peterson, Osborne and so on. The other thing Williams provided was the ability to go to a wing (see the second half to the 2008 GF) and provide run. Nothing has been lost in that department with Williams going. We have Jnr Burger, Morton, the new boy K-T, Young back (?), Savage and a few others who can kick a footy really well.

Croad is gone !!! So in comes Gibbo. The Schoe looks like he is going to be huge. Murphy has built up.

It's all in the forward planning and if people look at what has gone and what has come in, it will be seen there is a plan in place and it is being implemented to manage the list for now and for the future.

So I still don't see the point the original poster was making when he started this thread. Sorry young Henry, I know ambulance chasing can deflect ones concentration but all this seems pretty bloody obvious to me, even when on the run the moment I hear a siren in the distance, hehe
Perfect well done number 24, spot on man.

Thank you. But what should be obvious to all who pretend to follow football, or any sport or organisation, is that the only thing that is constant is change itself. Without change we are the 2008 GF shark Clarko referred to in his pre match address. Stand still and you die.

HFC, circa the early to mid/late 1990's where they were not prepared to make the call on established, overpaid players and others in the club from the Board down, who did not have the time left in their legs or were simply not good enough to take the club forward.

Don't resist change, it is the engine room of future success.