Society/Culture Horse racing is cruel

[Craven Morehead]

Thousands killed a year for being too slow. High rates of injury (you did read the articles about blood in the windpipes and gastric ulcers on this page, yeah?). They are not treated like gods, they are treated as objects, pushed to beyond their limits in races and then discarded when they offer no further possibility for profit.

You do realise that a horse that bleeds from the mouth or nostril is automatically banned from racing for, I think, 6 months and must pass a really rigorous veterinary inspection before recommencing.
If it bleeds again it is disqualified for life.
It makes zero commercial or moral sense to push a horse that is worth hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars to the point where it becomes a 'bleeder'.
Stewards reports are published after every single race meeting in the country and the numbers claimed in your emotive, bullshit article do NOT reflect the truth.
Just more and more emotive lying.
Your stomach ulcer thing is also crap, the first link is to Ranvet which is flogging it's own product ffs.
The newspaper article which links to 'studies' goes back to the very same Ranvet advertisement! LOL.

A horse with stomach ulceration will not perform to the best of its ability.
That's why trainers and owners fork out millions in vet bills and absolute top quality feeding regimes to ensure that these horses are in peak condition and health.

Animals die pal, that's a sad fact of life.
I had to shoot one of my own horses some months back after it shattered a leg whilst galloping around a paddock having fun.
I've sent stock horses to the knackery because they were dangerous or just plain useless.

However, after considering your tearful defence of vegan activists, and being a vegan, and supporting protesters who block city streets and spit on people and your enthusiasm for public nudity and having men swing their dicks in female toilets you'll be appalled by this sad, but realistic part of life.

You live in a left-wing utopian bubble that is so far away from the actual realities of life for it to be laughable.

 

[RobbieK]

You live in a left-wing utopian bubble that is so far away from the actual realities of life for it to be laughable.

Yeah, it's called Berlin.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Melbourne University research found that over 50% of horses had blood in their windpipes.

Why the Melbourne Cup is actually one of the cruellest days on Australia's calendar

Countless horses have sustained catastrophic injuries on the racetrack after being whipped and pushed past their limits.

www.smh.com.au

85-95% of horses show signs of gastric ulceration (ulcers that erode stomach lining).

Gastric Ulcers - Everything You Need to Know | Ranvet

Gastric Ulcers in Horses

www.ranvet.com.au

The industry sees a wastage rate of 40%.

From prizewinners to pet meat: the harsh realities of horse breeding

The daughter of a former thoroughbred breeder confronts the brutal reality faced by racehorses who've outlived their usefulness.

www.smh.com.au

122 horses were killed on the track in the last race year.

Australian Racehorse Deathwatch

A report on fatalities in the last racing year.

horseracingkills.com

Before anyone asks a patronising question, yes, I have visited a stable. Members of my family are involved in the industry. That doesn't change the fact that the statistics and evidence are clear. It is a cruel and reprehensible industry. Not to mention, given the amount of drugs that are pumped into racehorses, visiting a stable at the invitation of a breeder or trainer is a frivolous activity that will prove very little.

There's a powerful video included in the last link. There is so much evidence that is plain to see. It has become nauseating reading people trying to convince everyone that in spite of all this clear evidence that the cruelty only represents a fraction of the industry. How can the cruelty represent only a fraction of the industry when 40% of horses bred for racing are sent to abattoirs for not being fast enough?

40% of racehorses are sent to the abattoir.

Here we go...

 

[Kram]

I hate horse racing but I wonder how many that complain about the cruelty are happy to eat a facrtory farmed chicken and ham sandwich.

 

[RobbieK]

I hate horse racing but I wonder how many that complain about the cruelty are happy to eat a facrtory farmed chicken and ham sandwich.

Quite a few, no doubt. Not all.

 

[Craven Morehead]

Yeah, it's called Berlin.

Feel free to stay there.

Very, very strong racing industry in Germany, which must also have you drowning in tears.

 

[RobbieK]

Feel free to stay there.

Very, very strong racing industry in Germany, which must also have you drowning in tears.

Strong neo-Nazi presence too, you'd love it.

 

[Craven Morehead]

Strong neo-Nazi presence too, you'd love it.

aaaaand there it is, you couldn't help yourself.

Anyone who disagrees with a far-left activist automatically becomes a Nazi.

How very, very childish.

Meanwhile, you won't dispute the points I have made in various rebuttals, because you can't.

 

[RobbieK]

aaaaand there it is, you couldn't help yourself.

Anyone who disagrees with a far-left activist automatically becomes a Nazi.

How very, very childish.

Meanwhile, you won't dispute the points I have made in various rebuttals, because you can't.

You are right, you set it up like that and I just couldn't help myself.

I won't engage with your points because there isn't any point engaging you in reasonable conversation, so I choose to only engage in unreasonable conversation. It is more entertaining for me that way.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Where are all of the protesters at the Wednesday Sandown meetings in the middle of winter when the number of horses running is probably higher than the number of people in attendance?

By all means protest about the an if it's something you're truly passionate about, but don't expect people to be sympathetic to your cause when you stick your head up for 2 or 3 days of the year taking a holier than thou approach then slinking back into the shadows when the focus is off.

Until that happens I will continue to assume that all this "protesting" is nothing more than grandstanding when there is the potential to get a bit of cheap media coverage and virtue signal to the world that you are a superior human being.

 

[RobbieK]

Where are all of the protesters at the Wednesday Sandown meetings in the middle of winter when the number of horses running is probably higher than the number of people in attendance?

By all means protest about the an if it's something you're truly passionate about, but don't expect people to be sympathetic to your cause when you stick your head up for 2 or 3 days of the year taking a holier than thou approach then slinking back into the shadows when the focus is off.

Until that happens I will continue to assume that all this "protesting" is nothing more than grandstanding when there is the potential to get a bit of cheap media coverage and virtue signal to the world that you are a superior human being.

I think it is pretty clear that the protestors choose to focus their energies where they are most likely to get attention and traction. There are plenty of people doing unseen work around the country to shut down the racing industry, dogs and horses, a lot of it is pretty tedious and thankless work, which is important but ultimately has a limited ability to create change without mass support. Protesting major events is a legitimate strategy for increasing awareness, and it seems to be working as each year the movement gets bigger.

 

[Craven Morehead]

You are right, you set it up like that and I just couldn't help myself.

I won't engage with your points because there isn't any point engaging you in reasonable conversation, so I choose to only engage in unreasonable conversation. It is more entertaining for me that way.

I have provided you very, very reasonable points for you to rebut.
Your bleeder nonsense is crap.
Your ulcer nonsense is crap.
The whipping is crap.
The overall mis-treatment of race horses is crap.

Here's the thing my little 'I hate everything to the right of Chairman Mao" activist.

Race horse owners and trainers are just like farmers.
We are all getting very unfairly targeted because in the minds of people, such as yourself, we just MUST be being cruel to our animals...because...you know....they all end up dying.

Meanwhile, in non-activist, common sense land, we all spend millions and millions of dollars in ensuring that our animals are in the very, very best of health and condition possible.
Why?
Because it's our livelihoods at stake and we have placed a huge personal investment in ensuring the best quality of life possible for our animals.
That point is always conveniently overlooked.

 

[Carn The Berries]

I think it is pretty clear that the protestors choose to focus their energies where they are most likely to get attention and traction. There are plenty of people doing unseen work around the country to shut down the racing industry, dogs and horses, a lot of it is pretty tedious and thankless work, which is important but ultimately has a limited ability to create change without mass support. Protesting major events is a legitimate strategy for increasing awareness, and it seems to be working as each year the movement gets bigger.

And for those who are doing this unseen work kudos to them. But I struggle to believe that every person (or even a majority) who is at Flemington holding a placard is doing this kind of thing year round.

There are plenty of other "big" race days during the year (Australian Cup, Sydney Autumn carnival, even the bigger yearling sales get a lot of media coverage these days) perfect public forums if you want to get your message out to the masses, yet coincidentally, this only ever seems to happen during cup week.

 

[Craven Morehead]

And for those who are doing this unseen work kudos to them. But I struggle to believe that every person (or even a majority) who is at Flemington holding a placard is doing this kind of thing year round.

There are plenty of other "big" race days during the year (Australian Cup, Sydney Autumn carnival, even the bigger yearling sales get a lot of media coverage these days) perfect public forums if you want to get your message out to the masses, yet coincidentally, this only ever seems to happen during cup week.

The Socialist Alliance has a very busy protesting calendar.

They can't be everywhere!

 

[RobbieK]

Race horse owners and trainers are just like farmers.
We are all getting very unfairly targeted because in the minds of people, such as yourself, we just MUST be being cruel to our animals...because...you know....they all end up dying.

Meanwhile, in non-activist, common sense land, we all spend millions and millions of dollars in ensuring that our animals are in the very, very best of health and condition possible.
Why?
Because it's our livelihoods at stake and we have placed a huge personal investment in ensuring the best quality of life possible for our animals.
That point is always conveniently overlooked.

All this caricature of animal rights argument shows is that you haven't actually engaged with it. You don't want to hear it and so rather than listen and engage you shut your ears and make it out that the argument have no foundation at all. From my very first interation with you (I revealed I was a vegan, no more, and you instantly called me a dickhead) it was clear you weren't going to consider alternate viewpoints, that remains true to today.

 

[Craven Morehead]

All this caricature of animal rights argument shows is that you haven't actually engaged with it. You don't want to hear it and so rather than listen and engage you shut your ears and make it out that the argument have no foundation at all. From my very first interation with you (I revealed I was a vegan, no more, and you instantly called me a dickhead) it was clear you weren't going to consider alternate viewpoints, that remains true to today.

I see.

So actually opening, reading and then rebutting the links you referred to was not engaging?

If you continuously lie and base arguments on emotion, instead of facts, people are eventually going to call you a bad name or two.

 

[SSwans2011]

40% of racehorses are sent to the abattoir.

Here we go...

Feel free to link some evidence on the contrary.

 

[SSwans2011]

Even if you dispute the 85-95% number, there are other studies that reveal high proportions of gastric ulceration in racehorses. This study reveals that the prevalence of ulcers in racehorses is much greater (P < 0.0001).

Gastric ulcers in standardbred racehorses: prevalence, lesion description, and risk factors - PubMed

This study was performed to estimate the prevalence of gastric ulcers in Standardbred racehorses, to describe the lesion score and location, and to identify potential risk factors. Two hundred seventy-five (275) Standardbred horses from 5 training centers and 2 racetracks in Quebec, Canada, were...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And although the number is not as high, the study is dated (2003), and most alternative newer research suggests the number is rising as they become better at identifying gastric ulceration.

 

[Lebbo73]

Thousands killed a year for being too slow. High rates of injury (you did read the articles about blood in the windpipes and gastric ulcers on this page, yeah?). They are not treated like gods, they are treated as objects, pushed to beyond their limits in races and then discarded when they offer no further possibility for profit.

Only about 10% of all horses killed each year are racehorses.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Feel free to link some evidence on the contrary.

It’s 0.2%.

Feel free to link some evidence on the contrary.

 

[SSwans2011]

It’s 0.2%.

Feel free to link some evidence on the contrary.

Even if it's not 40% (if that's the point you're trying to make here). A wealth of research will tell you how high the wastage figure is. I initially was going to ask you to provide a link, but instead maybe I'll actually help you do your own research, seeing as there's no point in arguing with anyone that refuses to offer any evidence.

racehorse wastage australia - Google Search

 

[Lethality]

Only about 10% of all horses killed each year are racehorses.

Treating them like gods, you say.

 

[RobbieK]

Treating them like gods, you say.

Maybe in the Nietzschean sense? God is dead... And we have killed him.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Even if it's not 40% (if that's the point you're trying to make here). A wealth of research will tell you how high the wastage figure is. I initially was going to ask you to provide a link, but instead maybe I'll actually help you do your own research, seeing as there's no point in arguing with anyone that refuses to offer any evidence.

racehorse wastage australia - Google Search

What sort of logical midgetry is this?

Somebody makes claims and it’s up to somebody else to disprove them?

If people want to make a claim they can back it up with independent facts.

In the absence of that I’m more than happy to say the 40% figure is absolute bullshit. And no, it’s not up to me to disprove some utterly baseless claim like that.

And hint - when I say I “independent” I mean independent, as in an independently-run study. Not one carried out by a racing authority, or equally, by an anti-racing body. If there’s been an independent body commissioned by anybody to get the facts, I’d be happy to look at it. There’s none in your google link though, for starters.

 

[Lebbo73]

Treating them like gods, you say.

I never claimed that. When I used to bet I expected the jockey on the I backed to whip the **** out of him. These days I realise that this isn’t right but the whips feel like a feather to horses.