Society/Culture Horse racing is cruel

[Tandy]

It's a strange one. I like horse racing for the stories and hourneys the horses are on. Like Winx for example. But what doesn't sit right with me in the back of my head is the fact that most of these horses are forced to run long distances for our entertainment. Not to mention the whips. There must be some horses that enjoy running flat out and the attention surely but that's something I always think about. On the other side they probably get looked after and treated well, better than if they weren't racing horses.

That last bit aged well huh. There's sooo much money in the industry they need a percentage to go toward looking after these horses. That includes betting agencies. The suffering some horses go through to end up as pet food is sickening.

 

[Ron The Bear]

The rouge element is significant enough, and the industry powerful enough, for the industry to take a leadership role on this matter. They can really make a difference, and ought to, in my opinion.

The industry dissociates itself from that side of it, which is understandable. It's not up to them to dictate what owners do with their animals, post-racing.

If cruelty is taking place at the abbatoirs then the responsible government department needs to step in.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Money, money ,money, greed, greed, corporate advertising, TAB, jiggers, cobalt, Peter Moody is a filthy drug cheat crook, Darren Weir tortures horses, jockeys bet on races, crims launder money, money ,money ,money,breed 100 horses and send the slow ones to get slaughtered and tortured.Apprentice female jockeys sexually harrassed, jockeys killed all the time.What a great industry!!

Female jockeys are being killed out of all proportion to their representation in the ranks, but nobody wants to touch that one.

 

[cartwright]

What a shitful industry.

 

[Goosecat]

Anyway you look at it, it's a "shite" concept.

All industrialised animal racing and training involves an application of external pressure of some sort to force better performance. The levels vary widely obviously but at the root of it all lies applications of force to make the animal perform. The animal doesn't have any particular desire to repetitively strain and exert itself in such a fashion (as far as we know), humans make them do it. It's not done for some altruistic reason or out of a genuine societal need.

The near 90% Gastric Ulcer phenomenon known within the industry but kept relatively out of public attention gives some indication of the levels of stress and exertion forced upon these animals for human "enjoyment" and profit. The amount of stock required to be birthed, obtained, assessed and trained in the hope of finding one "good one" is not at the level of Greyhound racing by virtue of sheer birthing numbers, but a nonetheless unresolvable necessity. There are of course numerous different outcomes for all the thoroughbreds found lacking in the required "ability" stakes. Then of course there is the fact that a thoroughbreds lifespan is a little under 30 years of which an average of 5 is spent racing. Once that period is over, they are highly dispensable and must be disposed of to make room for the next crop.

As for the humans within the industry; don't let the public media spin fool you. Scheming, scamming and forced pressure of animals, is the very nature of the industry. There is no way to deny it, it is the very basis of the industry itself and as such indicative of the types of people found within its confines (apologies to the naive rare exceptions still early in their exposure to the real "horse" game who thought it was going to be all rainbows and butterflies and beautiful running horses).
As a kid I would sit around and listen to owners and trainers plan and scheme programs of running each horse in particular grades, in particular track positions over a number of races to achieve non wins on purpose that couldn't be officially questioned. Horses then go back down grades that are even easier to win whilst keeping high odds because they haven't been performing in past races. Then they up the program, change feed and supplement ratios, pick out the ideal races in the lower grade and race the horse "properly". All the big bets are made on those races by the owners. This is the whole industry, racing, pacing, trots included.

The "Group 1" racing, well known by "average joe" is in reality a tiny element of the real industry. It is straight out animal abuse for monetary gain and human amusement.

 

[Ron The Bear]

All industrialised animal racing and training involves an application of external pressure of some sort to force better performance. The levels vary widely obviously but at the root of it all lies applications of force to make the animal perform. The animal doesn't have any particular desire to repetitively strain and exert itself in such a fashion (as far as we know), humans make them do it. It's not done for some altruistic reason or out of a genuine societal need.

Rubbish. The notion of the horse as a noble animal is a furphy. They have long memories but are otherwise not very smart. They are taught to race and follow the script, knowing of nothing else. Horses love to run, generally, evidenced by a horse that has lost its rider cavorting along with the rest of the field.

Sure, there is no societal need, just like there is no societal need to climb a mountain or replicate nature via art. It's a pursuit that interests some and not others.

I don't recall the AFL investigating Black Pirate...

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Horse racing is garbage.

 

[Goosecat]

Rubbish. The notion of the horse as a noble animal is a furphy. They have long memories but are otherwise not very smart. They are taught to race and follow the script, knowing of nothing else. Horses love to run, generally, evidenced by a horse that has lost its rider cavorting along with the rest of the field.

Sure, there is no societal need, just like there is no societal need to climb a mountain or replicate nature via art. It's a pursuit that interests some and not others.

I don't recall the AFL investigating Black Pirate...

Absolute rot.

I love the people that fall back on the old horses love running so forcing them to do so every other day and making them do it at absolute top exertion is some sort of equivalent. Spoken like a truly non informed, uneducated supporter with no genuine knowledge of behavioural concepts in animals (and yes I have some expertise in the area).
It's almost as bad as the canine "lovers" who point out how happy their little canines are running around, barking at the door, jumping on people and furniture etc. It's not until you do some real study and discover that almost all animal behaviours, given total freedom, involve conserving energy where possible. Canines in nature spend almost their entire lives lazing and conserving energy as much as possible. They have to move to hunt, flee or search for new survival possibilities/options but otherwise remain as sedentary as is possible. Adrenalised behaviour is most often actually a sign of underlying nervousness. It's the type of behavioural realities that led to the discovery and development of terms like Fear/Aggression. What we humans thought was going on (ie dominant aggressive behaviour) comes from a place of complete opposing reality. Animals can be made to run to exhaustion by "playing" on their prey drive instincts ( if they are prey animals) and through various other means, but continually doing so at intensive levels is actually harmful. We as humans are literally only just waking up to this ourselves regarding elite, intensively trained athletes, who we now know actually suffer shortened lifespans.

You will not see any horse anywhere in natural environments running to total exhaustion unless adrenalised into action of flight for safety/survival. Individuals like yourself and "average joe" public see very short, hierarchical displays, practice and often short nervous flights of a herd (yes the animals that follow the others) prey (those that take flight form hunters) animal and think "oh look how much they love running, they must love being forced to do lots and lots of it and run to exhaustion" . It is the thought process of an uneducated child or conflicted and uneducated adult.

Almost the entire lives of horses in natural environments are spent walking and grazing, exerting as little effort as required. The thoroughbreds "put out to pasture" do not continue to run themselves tired every other day and to absolute exhaustion every other week. In fact they basically NEVER do. Make no mistake, we humans FORCE them to. We cajole, bribe, threaten, entice and force as required to make them do it. They produce so much extra adrenaline and stress compared to non racing horses (controlled studies) they develop ulcers and other ailments at rates seen no where else in the equine world.

Aside from those realities I notice you never bothered addressing any of the other equally important problems with horse racing. You know the disposal and destruction of those found to be "not up to scratch" or those "past their use by date". Not to mention the sheer, criminal scamming of performance and race outcomes throughout the entire industry.
Horse racing involves straight out abuse for monetary gain.
Get educated!!

 

[FireKrakouer]

Absolute rot.

I love the people that fall back on the old horses love running so forcing them to do so every other day and making them do it at absolute top exertion is some sort of equivalent. Spoken like a truly no informed, uneducated supporter with no genuine knowledge of behavioural concepts in animals (and yes I have some expertise in the area).
It's almost as bad as the canine "lovers" who point out how happy their little canines are running around, barking at the door, jumping on people and furniture etc. It's not until you do some real study and discover that almost all animal behaviours, given total freedom, involve conserving energy where possible. Canines in nature spend almost their entire lives lazing and conserving energy as much as possible. They have to move to hunt, flee or search for new survival possibilities/options but otherwise remain as sedentary as is possible. Adrenalised behaviour is most often actually a sign of underlying nervousness. It's the type of behavioural realities that led to the discovery and development of terms like Fear/Aggression. What we humans thought was going on (ie dominant aggressive behaviour) comes from a place of complete opposing reality. Animals can be made to run to exhaustion by "playing" on their prey drive instincts ( if they are prey animals) and through various other means, but continually doing so at intensive levels is actually harmful. We as humans are literally only just waking up to this ourselves regarding elite, intensively trained athletes, who we now know actually suffer shortened lifespans.

You will not see any horse anywhere in natural environments running to total exhaustion unless adrenalised into action of flight for safety/survival. Individuals like yourself and "average joe" public see very short, hierarchical displays, practice and often short nervous flights of a herd (yes the animals that follow the others) prey (those that take flight form hunters) animal and think "oh look how much they love running, they must love being forced to do lots and lots of it and run to exhaustion" . It is the thought process of an uneducated child or conflicted and uneducated adult.

Almost the entire lives of horses in natural environments are spent walking and grazing, exerting as little effort as required. The thoroughbreds "put out to pasture" do not continue to run themselves tired every other day and to absolute exhaustion every other week. In fact they basically NEVER do. Make no mistake, we humans FORCE them to. We cajole, bribe, threaten, entice and force as required to make them do it. They produce so much extra adrenaline and stress compared to non racing horses (controlled studies) they develop ulcers and other ailments at rates seen no where else in the equine world.

Aside from those realities I notice you never bothered addressing any of the other equally important problems with horse racing. You know the disposal and destruction of those found to be "not up to scratch" or those "past their use by date". Not to mention the sheer, criminal scamming of performance and race outcomes throughout the entire industry.
Get educated!!

Good post. These events depend on the animal's anxiety. Horses will occasionally canter around playfully in nature, but they generally spend almost their entire waking life grazing, as stated.

I will say that some breeds of dog can prefer to be active, e.g. most working breeds, but that's due to centuries of artificial selection by humans. Now city people buy border collies and wonder why the animal is completely neurotic not living on a farm or having a job to do. Ironically, greyhounds are some of the laziest MFers out there when given the choice.

 

[Goosecat]

Good post. These events depend on the animal's anxiety. Horses will occasionally canter around playfully in nature, but they generally spend almost their entire waking life grazing, as stated.

I will say that some breeds of dog can prefer to be active, e.g. most working breeds, but that's due to centuries of artificial selection by humans. Now city people buy border collies and wonder why the animal is completely neurotic not living on a farm or having a job to do. Ironically, greyhounds are some of the laziest MFers out there when given the choice.

Your point about breeding and activity in selective canines is a valid one. However regarding Border Collies seeking to be active; it is actually a misrepresentation of the reality and fact to concentrate on the perceived seeking of "physical exhaustion" to alleviate the neurotic behaviour that you refer to which includes but is not limited to things like shadow chasing, staring, fly chasing, herding of and incessant "bothering" of other pets, pacing, digging etc.
What they are in reality most often missing is mental stimulation. In truly difficult cases, often families struggling with such try the more exercise, activity route, including running their dogs for long periods to exhaustion (in some particular breed cases, multiple hours) only to have them revert straight back to the destructive/neurotic behaviour after a short rest to recover physically. Instituting the correct, targeted mental stimulation achieves far better results. In my past experience, every single time.

Without wanting to Anthropomorphise the situation it often helps to use human analogies to explain. Some kids can run for hours and hours, almost endlessly it seems to their parents. However if you really work that child's brain at a focused level, tailored individually to facilitate achievement of desired behaviour or outcome that particular individual is just capable of, to the point where they are literally straining their minds and becoming exhausted but not to the point of repeated failure and adrenaline stoking frustration and they quiet right down in very short periods comparative to physical exertion attempts. Most behavioural programs for troubled kids focus on the mental aspects.
I could be called into numerous difficult cases of severe neurotic canine behaviour where multiple "dog trainers" and Behaviourists have failed and an owner has tried running a dog for hours to exhaust them for months only to completely fail as mentioned above. I would then get some very amusing responses after assuring them I would have the dog calmly worn out and resting within an hour, even having never met the dog previous and wouldn't leave the back yard. If you have some exposure you might have some idea of how that is achieved.

As for the Greyhound behaviour; you're right, I find it quite comical

 

[Belnakor]

This is true. And as you mentioned, the majority in the industry love and care for the animals.

But.

The rouge element is significant enough, and the industry powerful enough, for the industry to take a leadership role on this matter. They can really make a difference, and ought to, in my opinion.

sorry but this is bullshit. Most of them might have got into the industry but the way you see the animals treated, the number of trainers who have been done for cheating/mistreatment is very high - and its just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[FireKrakouer]

Your point about breeding and activity in selective canines is a valid one. However regarding Border Collies seeking to be active; it is actually a misrepresentation of the reality and fact to concentrate on the perceived seeking of "physical exhaustion" to alleviate the neurotic behaviour that you refer to which includes but is not limited to things like shadow chasing, staring, fly chasing, herding of and incessant "bothering" of other pets, pacing, digging etc.
What they are in reality most often missing is mental stimulation. So often families struggling with such try the more exercise, activity route, including running their dogs for long periods to exhaustion (in some particular breed cases, multiple hours) only to have them revert straight back to the destructive/neurotic behaviour after a short rest to recover physically. Instituting the correct, targeted mental stimulation achieves far better results. In my experience, every single time.

Without wanting to Anthropomorphise the situation it often helps to use human analogies to explain. Some kids can run for hours and hours, almost endlessly it seems to their parents. However if you really work that child's brain at a focused level, tailored individually to facilitate achievement of desired behaviour or outcome that particular individual is just capable of, to the point where they are literally straining their minds and becoming exhausted but not to the point of repeated failure and adrenaline stoking frustration and they quiet right down in very short periods comparative to physical exertion attempts.
I could be called into numerous difficult cases of sever neurotic canine behaviour where multiple "dog trainers" and Behaviourists have failed and an owner has tried running a dog for hours to exhaust them for months only to completely fail as mentioned above. I would then get some very amusing responses after assuring them I would have the dog calmly worn out and resting within an hour, even having never met the dog previous and wouldn't leave the back yard. If you have some exposure you might have some idea of how that is achieved.

As for the Greyhound behaviour; you're right, I find it quite comical

You've definitely got my interest re how to calm a neurotic dog in 1 hour in the backyard? I have no qualification in the area, my knowledge comes second hand from half my family being vets, and from a lifetime of owning various animals including horses and dogs.

My current dog is a yellow lab of the high energy variety. I have known some labs that were quite lazy, but mine is 6 years old and still crazy as a puppy. I have noticed that any social interaction seems to calm her, even just coming in the car with me to get fuel and milk is an adventure to her. So I can see how exercise isn't the be all and end all.

 

[woota]

Rubbish. The notion of the horse as a noble animal is a furphy. They have long memories but are otherwise not very smart. They are taught to race and follow the script, knowing of nothing else. Horses love to run, generally, evidenced by a horse that has lost its rider cavorting along with the rest of the field.

Sure, there is no societal need, just like there is no societal need to climb a mountain or replicate nature via art. It's a pursuit that interests some and not others.

I don't recall the AFL investigating Black Pirate...

LMAO. Yeah, torturing horses is cool and all because they are "not very smart" (which is absolute BS). Obviously the only thing keeping this despicable industry alive is the vested financial interests of organisations and individuals for whom it is highly lucrative, who pretend somewhat to care about the welfare of the horses so they can keep making a profit from it. I mean, if you think exploiting animals to turn a profit is so great then at least own it, instead of trying to distract people from the stark reality that it's insanely cruel and inhumane.

 

[Ron The Bear]

LMAO. Yeah, torturing horses is cool and all because they are "not very smart" (which is absolute BS). Obviously the only thing keeping this despicable industry alive is the vested financial interests of organisations and individuals for whom it is highly lucrative, who pretend somewhat to care about the welfare of the horses so they can keep making a profit from it. I mean, if you think exploiting animals to turn a profit is so great then at least own it, instead of trying to distract people from the stark reality that it's insanely cruel and inhumane.

If they're being tortured, then crack down and put the abbatoir out of business. That's the government's job.

Racing horses is not "torture".

 

[woota]

If they're being tortured, then crack down and put the abbatoir out of business. That's the government's job.

Racing horses is not "torture".

You're obviously a moron. There's little else that needs to be said.

 

[Goosecat]

You've definitely got my interest re how to calm a neurotic dog in 1 hour in the backyard? I have no qualification in the area, my knowledge comes second hand from half my family being vets, and from a lifetime of owning various animals including horses and dogs.

My current dog is a yellow lab of the high energy variety. I have known some labs that were quite lazy, but mine is 6 years old and still crazy as a puppy. I have noticed that any social interaction seems to calm her, even just coming in the car with me to get fuel and milk is an adventure to her. So I can see how exercise isn't the be all and end all.

Ahh Labs, such bundles of energy for a period of their lives and such couch potatoes later on ! Some of the particularly high energy lines however can be very problematic for some folk with zero animal handling abilities or understanding. Thankfully, like most who've at least spent some decent time around horses and dogs, your dog has a capable owner and is in no danger of facing the fate of some, that being surrender and everything it entails.

As for the calming techniques in severe neurosis; it is genuinely not something that can be successfully disseminated in the short confines of this environ. It is too complex and nuanced requiring genuine in depth study. With knowledge, training, experience and a level of natural ability fast results are achievable, however in reality it takes years to develop the ability of success across all breeds and situations, let alone successfully transfer such upon an owner and one or two dogs.
I will admit there have been some rare cases that only I have been able to resolve and no amount of attempting to transfer the required nuance and reading of signs and body language required for an owner to succeed in really challenging neurotic behaviours has succeeded. In those rare cases the dog has come to me. If there is real serious aggression involved as well, where no one can even enter the yard it obviously becomes still further complicated.
It requires commitment, time and sacrifice for the owners to get even some level of ability, depending on their own and the dogs various capabilities and restrictions. The reality of what genuine, talented behaviourists can achieve in short times has always taken many years to develop.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Absolute rot.

I love the people that fall back on the old horses love running so forcing them to do so every other day and making them do it at absolute top exertion is some sort of equivalent. Spoken like a truly non informed, uneducated supporter with no genuine knowledge of behavioural concepts in animals (and yes I have some expertise in the area).
...
Aside from those realities I notice you never bothered addressing any of the other equally important problems with horse racing. You know the disposal and destruction of those found to be "not up to scratch" or those "past their use by date". Not to mention the sheer, criminal scamming of performance and race outcomes throughout the entire industry.
Horse racing involves straight out abuse for monetary gain.
Get educated!!

The thoroughbred exists to run. Literally. It is the culmination of hundreds of years of selective breeding geared towards evolving an animal that runs ever faster. Turn on the TV tomorrow and watch the topweight nuzzling the neck of the clerk's horse on the way to the stalls. It knows it is about to race and is saying "Hurry up, get on with it!".
...
It's been part and parcel of racing for more than 250 years. Why is it that you lot want to discard everything and start again? All you know is interfering and ****ing destroying. Useless campaigners.

Breeders (i.e. purists) generally have no concern for the welfare of punters. They are merely collateral damage that must occur so that their pastime can exist. Call it elitism if you will, and you'd be partly correct.

 

[woota]

The thoroughbred exists to run. Literally. It is the culmination of hundreds of years of selective breeding geared towards evolving an animal that runs ever faster. Turn on the TV tomorrow and watch the topweight nuzzling the neck of the clerk's horse on the way to the stalls. It knows it is about to race and is saying "Hurry up, get on with it!".
...
It's been part and parcel of racing for more than 250 years. Why is it that you lot want to discard everything and start again? All you know is interfering and ******* destroying. Useless campaigners.

Breeders (i.e. purists) generally have no concern for the welfare of punters. They are merely collateral damage that must occur so that their pastime can exist. Call it elitism if you will, and you'd be partly correct.

Do they also exist to receive electrical shocks while being forced to run on a treadmill?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Do they also exist to receive electrical shocks while being forced to run on a treadmill?

No. There are laws against animal cruelty, in racing and outside it.

If you're saying authorities are looking the other way at jiggers and cattle prods, go ahead and name names.

 

[Ok Boomer]

I wish horse racing didn't fit right in between the AFL and international cricket seasons.....

 

[Goosecat]

The thoroughbred exists to run. Literally. It is the culmination of hundreds of years of selective breeding geared towards evolving an animal that runs ever faster. Turn on the TV tomorrow and watch the topweight nuzzling the neck of the clerk's horse on the way to the stalls. It knows it is about to race and is saying "Hurry up, get on with it!".
...
It's been part and parcel of racing for more than 250 years. Why is it that you lot want to discard everything and start again? All you know is interfering and ******* destroying. Useless campaigners.

Breeders (i.e. purists) generally have no concern for the welfare of punters. They are merely collateral damage that must occur so that their pastime can exist. Call it elitism if you will, and you'd be partly correct.

You're absolutely full of crap, fed to you by people within the industry.
Selectively breeding to achieve high strung, nervous energy ( yes go look it up in breeding histories, it is sought after) animals that react and take flight faster and produce more adrenaline whist suffering stress related health issues and deaths repeated no-where else in the equine world etc for human monetary gain is something to be proud of !

Despite that pitiful and incorrect attempt at normalising and validating such efforts, these animals still DO NOT desire running to exhaustion repeatedly and as soon as they are "put out to pasture" NEVER do so of their own volition unless via a perceived required flight response. You are completely full of it and uneducated.
Now what about those abuses and deaths? Are you a believer in and supporter of the enforced cruelty? Does it excite you to dominate and inflict such pain and control for nothing more than financial gain? Ah well of course, you are indicative of the types of people within the industry.
Oh and lets not keep skipping over the criminal scamming of race results through the entire industry.

 

[woota]

No. There are laws against animal cruelty, in racing and outside it.

If you're saying authorities are looking the other way at jiggers and cattle prods, go ahead and name names.

Roflcopter. The entire industry is based on the exploitation and abuse of animals. The laws obviously are not strong enough until the sport is banned in all australian states and territories.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Roflcopter. The entire industry is based on the exploitation and abuse of animals. The laws obviously are not strong enough until the sport is banned in all australian states and territories.

Pffft, this country was opened up on horseback. Who are you to decide what is and what isn't legitimate enterprise?

 

[FireKrakouer]

The thoroughbred exists to run. Literally. It is the culmination of hundreds of years of selective breeding geared towards evolving an animal that runs ever faster. Turn on the TV tomorrow and watch the topweight nuzzling the neck of the clerk's horse on the way to the stalls. It knows it is about to race and is saying "Hurry up, get on with it!".
...
It's been part and parcel of racing for more than 250 years. Why is it that you lot want to discard everything and start again? All you know is interfering and ******* destroying. Useless campaigners.

Breeders (i.e. purists) generally have no concern for the welfare of punters. They are merely collateral damage that must occur so that their pastime can exist. Call it elitism if you will, and you'd be partly correct.

If they are genetically fine-tuned for racing, why do over 50% of race horses suffer bleeding in the lungs, and 85% suffer gastrointestinal lesions? Why do an average of 2 racehorses die on the track each week in Australia? Jesus, even if they "like" the race itself, they wouldn't like the resulting agony. They are clearly pushed beyond their natural limits.

I'm generally right wing and prefer to maintain traditions, but anything involving the abuse of animals for entertainment can gagf. How selfish can people be, there are a million other things to bet on.

 

[Ron The Bear]

If they are genetically fine-tuned for racing, why do over 50% of race horses suffer bleeding in the lungs, and 85% suffer gastrointestinal lesions? Why do an average of 2 racehorses die on the track each week in Australia? Jesus, even if they "like" the race itself, they wouldn't like the resulting agony. They are clearly pushed beyond their natural limits.

I'm generally right wing and prefer to maintain traditions, but anything involving the abuse of animals for entertainment can gagf. How selfish can people be, there are a million other things to bet on.

I'm neither a critic nor racing's biggest supporter. But it's got a lot going for it.

Do they know? At the turn to the straight
Where the favourites fail
And every last atom of weight
Is telling its tale
As some grim old stayer hard-pressed
Runs true to his breed
And with head in front of the rest
Fights on in the lead
When the jockeys are out with the whips
With a furlong to go
And the backers grow white in the lips
Do you think they don't know?

Do they know? As they come back to weigh
In a whirlwind of cheers
Though the spurs have left marks of the fray
Though the sweat on the ears
Gathers cold, and they sob with distress
As they roll up the track
They know just as well their success
As the man on their back
As they walk through a dense human lane
That sways to and fro
And cheers them again and again
Do you think they don't know?

- A.B.Paterson