Roast How diabolical is our midfield?

[WaynesWorld19]

I get it, but in a midfield that statistically is mediocre repeatedly backed over and over again? you dont think thats poor selection to keep doing the same thing over and over when the results for the last two months indicate perhaps we should still be experimenting a little?

Yes I agree .....but you have to have viable alternatives .....I would argue, Rankine should be playing midfield more than Rachelle
Rankine has the tank, which Rachelle doesn't ......the RICH revival has in large, been due to Shai Bolton's quick movement thru the 50 mtr arcs .....Rankine is every bit as good

IMO the Club have been hoping to see Berry recapture form .....he and Schoenberg have been the season's disappointments

 

[Cap]

If Berry is out of form , how is he going to get that form back in the SANFL?

Surely he either has the talent or does not have the talent and we need to back him in.

It's a bit concerning that consistently, he, Hatley and Crouch are our leading SANFL possession getters and apparently none are going to get picked in the AFL team.

 

[Cap]

Probably not, he’s got the taste of immediate wins now.

Seems a consistent short coming of every single Crows coach in our history

The moment we get a sniff of winning, development goes out the window.

 

[Scorpus]

Ok, I get your point loud and clear. You think we haven’t improved beyond expectations over the past 12 months and I do . I suppose that is a subjective thing anyway. But if you want me to elaborate, I didn’t expect us to:

• score so freely
• beat 2 of the top 4 teams and take it up to the benchmark side twice, including on the mcg
• develop guys like Murray, Max, chayce and Pedlar despite question marks over all of them
• be right in the thick of finals contention

It depends where we finish at the end of the season. We are in finals contention, but we are also just 4 points off 14th spot. If we had lost to Hawthorn for example that's where we'd be sitting right now.

Four of our final seven games are very winnable and we'd be expected to win. Win them all and that's a good improvement on last year even if we don't make finals.

Drop a couple of them and we'd only end up on 10 wins which isn't heaps better than last year (factoring in the extra game this year)

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

If Berry is out of form , how is he going to get that form back in the SANFL?

Surely he either has the talent or does not have the talent and we need to back him in.

It's a bit concerning that consistently, he, Hatley and Crouch are our leading SANFL possession getters and apparently none are going to get picked in the AFL team.

Berry was BOG last week in the SANFL.

 

[Cap]

Berry was BOG last week in the SANFL.

Sorry, I was expanding on WaynesWorld19 comment that he was out for form (I'm not questioning that as I haven't followed the SANFL)

I just hope that if he is now in form, we pick him , rather than waiting till after he loses form

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Sorry, I was expanding on WaynesWorld19 comment that he was out for form (I'm not questioning that as I haven't followed the SANFL)

I just hope that if he is now in form, we pick him , rather than waiting till after he loses form

Don’t hope too hard!

 

[Cap]

Don’t hope too hard!

 

[DJ75]

I see Mutineer has found the dislike button again. Loves to hit it but not explain why. Must be a fun guy to hang out with.

 

[NSolis]

It depends where we finish at the end of the season. We are in finals contention, but we are also just 4 points off 14th spot. If we had lost to Hawthorn for example that's where we'd be sitting right now.

Four of our final seven games are very winnable and we'd be expected to win. Win them all and that's a good improvement on last year even if we don't make finals.

Drop a couple of them and we'd only end up on 10 wins which isn't heaps better than last year (factoring in the extra game this year)

This is why I don't think you can just look at wins. You have to look at the quality and size of the wins, the style of play and the competitiveness week to week. I think it's easy to forget how much worse we performed last year. Even if we did go 2-5 from here and finish on 10 wins, which would be a disastrous finish to the year, it would still be a massive jump over last season.

Last year after 17 rounds we were 5-11 with a percentage of 83.1. Those 5 wins included beating North and West Coast, plus 3 good wins against the Dogs in Ballarat (1 point), the Showdown (after the siren) and Richmond (19 points at home). Our away form was maybe comparable (but with bigger margins), but our home form has improved out of sight. The losses included GWS by 10 goals at home, closer games against St. Kilda and Freo at home, comfortable losses to Brisbane and Melbourne at home, comfortable losses to Carlton, Hawthorn and Gold Coast away, a narrow loss to Essendon away, and the expected losses to Collingwood and Geelong away. Basically we had 3 good wins against respectable teams, all by narrow margins, and we lost quite a bit at home as well as getting heavily beaten away by modest sides.

By comparison this year in 4 of our 8 losses we've been within a kick (or ahead) at 3/4 time. Our winning margins are much more convincing, and our percentage is 116.6. Essendon was a very poor performance in a big game but it's not last year.

 

[Crow till I die]

This is why I don't think you can just look at wins. You have to look at the quality and size of the wins, the style of play and the competitiveness week to week. I think it's easy to forget how much worse we performed last year. Even if we did go 2-5 from here and finish on 10 wins, which would be a disastrous finish to the year, it would still be a massive jump over last season.

Last year after 17 rounds we were 5-11 with a percentage of 83.1. Those 5 wins included beating North and West Coast, plus 3 good wins against the Dogs in Ballarat (1 point), the Showdown (after the siren) and Richmond (19 points at home). Our away form was maybe comparable (but with bigger margins), but our home form has improved out of sight. The losses included GWS by 10 goals at home, closer games against St. Kilda and Freo at home, comfortable losses to Brisbane and Melbourne at home, comfortable losses to Carlton, Hawthorn and Gold Coast away, a narrow loss to Essendon away, and the expected losses to Collingwood and Geelong away. Basically we had 3 good wins against respectable teams, all by narrow margins, and we lost quite a bit at home as well as getting heavily beaten away by modest sides.

By comparison this year in 4 of our 8 losses we've been within a kick (or ahead) at 3/4 time. Our winning margins are much more convincing, and our percentage is 116.6. Essendon was a very poor performance in a big game but it's not last year.

There is certainly truth to that

Our losses this year have been
GWS - 16 points
Richmond - 32 points
Collingwood - 1 point
Geelo9ng - 26 points
Bulldogs - 45 points
Gold Coast - 25 points
Collingwood - 2 points
Essendon - 18 points

The dogs loss is the real outlier points wise there although the Essendon loss on the weekend whilst closer in points terms was very much sugar coated in the last 1/4 as Essendon were nearly 40 points up at 3/4 time

So maybe, as angry as I was and still are about the weekends game, is that we have been competitive this year in all but 2 of our losses so we are building a level of consistency but we are still a way off it and in my eye, we need to keep rotating the youngsters through now for the rest of the year so we can know more for next year than we do now.


We have 7 games left and thats plenty of time to unearth a possible gem we have not yet seen (maybe a Nankervis?) - thats what I want as we are not yet ready to play finals as we just can't win away.

 

[George Kramer]

The two worse players in the 1st half was Laird & Dawson, leaders .....they set the tone, or should have

Sloane? He was clear worst on ground

 

[George Kramer]

No .....steady head there adelaidecrows

It means, players like Cook, Dowling, and Bond, are still developing ......Berry is out of form, as players sometimes have bad seasons ....it's not a reflection of talent, it can be RL situations diverting their focus ??

Hately adds nothing ......Brown IMO has something ....I like his movement thru traffic, it's just his disposal

However, the 5-6 delistings this year, will happen from the majority of those in the SANFL

Hately, Crouch, Newchurch, McPherson, Hamill ....and probably Brown

Aren't we talking Midfield here though ? ......that's the thread title

Wing is part of the midfield and you supported moving Jones out of it against Essendon ….

 

[Scorpus]

This is why I don't think you can just look at wins. You have to look at the quality and size of the wins, the style of play and the competitiveness week to week. I think it's easy to forget how much worse we performed last year. Even if we did go 2-5 from here and finish on 10 wins, which would be a disastrous finish to the year, it would still be a massive jump over last season.

Last year after 17 rounds we were 5-11 with a percentage of 83.1. Those 5 wins included beating North and West Coast, plus 3 good wins against the Dogs in Ballarat (1 point), the Showdown (after the siren) and Richmond (19 points at home). Our away form was maybe comparable (but with bigger margins), but our home form has improved out of sight. The losses included GWS by 10 goals at home, closer games against St. Kilda and Freo at home, comfortable losses to Brisbane and Melbourne at home, comfortable losses to Carlton, Hawthorn and Gold Coast away, a narrow loss to Essendon away, and the expected losses to Collingwood and Geelong away. Basically we had 3 good wins against respectable teams, all by narrow margins, and we lost quite a bit at home as well as getting heavily beaten away by modest sides.

By comparison this year in 4 of our 8 losses we've been within a kick (or ahead) at 3/4 time. Our winning margins are much more convincing, and our percentage is 116.6. Essendon was a very poor performance in a big game but it's not last year.

I guess it comes down to how you define "above expectations". I think a lot of people expected us to improve, which we have. If we finish the season 2-5 there will be question marks over whether that improvement is better than we expected. A fair few people on here had our expected wins around 10 for the year, which of course means we will generally be more competitive across the season.

If we win the games we should and end up with 12 or so wins and healthy percentage I'd say the year was better than expected. But it's a close season, we're in a pack of teams that are all performing similarly - and we play a few of these teams on the run home. We're going to need several seasons of performing above expectations to jump out from a pack that you'd also generally expect to improve

 

[NSolis]

I guess it comes down to how you define "above expectations". I think a lot of people expected us to improve, which we have. If we finish the season 2-5 there will be question marks over whether that improvement is better than we expected. A fair few people on here had our expected wins around 10 for the year, which of course means we will generally be more competitive across the season.

If we win the games we should and end up with 12 or so wins and healthy percentage I'd say the year was better than expected. But it's a close season, we're in a pack of teams that are all performing similarly - and we play a few of these teams on the run home. We're going to need several seasons of performing above expectations to jump out from a pack that you'd also generally expect to improve

Yeah, I would imagine the standard most people had was more than 8 wins, but probably not in finals contention. That's certainly what I expected. Being 8-8 with a shot at the finals is above that level somewhat, but I think the level where the team has really exceeded my expectations is the week to week competitiveness, and the improvement of the bottom half of the list. Aside from the Dogs game, we haven't had weeks where we were just nowhere near it like the GWS, Hawthorn, Sydney, Carlton etc. games from last year, and our good is much better. Wins and losses are the bottom line but I could easily imagine an 8-8 season which was much worse.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

There is certainly truth to that

Our losses this year have been
GWS - 16 points
Richmond - 32 points
Collingwood - 1 point
Geelo9ng - 26 points
Bulldogs - 45 points
Gold Coast - 25 points
Collingwood - 2 points
Essendon - 18 points

The dogs loss is the real outlier points wise there although the Essendon loss on the weekend whilst closer in points terms was very much sugar coated in the last 1/4 as Essendon were nearly 40 points up at 3/4 time

So maybe, as angry as I was and still are about the weekends game, is that we have been competitive this year in all but 2 of our losses so we are building a level of consistency but we are still a way off it and in my eye, we need to keep rotating the youngsters through now for the rest of the year so we can know more for next year than we do now.


We have 7 games left and thats plenty of time to unearth a possible gem we have not yet seen (maybe a Nankervis?) - thats what I want as we are not yet ready to play finals as we just can't win away.

I would say that we were uncompetitive against Geelong, Bulldogs, GCS and Bombers. The final score in three of those flattered us.

 

[Crow till I die]

I would say that we were uncompetitive against Geelong, Bulldogs, GCS and Bombers. The final score in three of those flattered us.

We were never that far down v Geelong and had the umps not cheated to 'miss' the free to Keays in the goal square, we would have closed within 1 goal with 2 minutes to play. They blew the score out late with a couple of junktime goals

Bulldogs absolutely, we were never in it. GC we were well ahead and stopped..that was a bad loss

 

[John Who]

I agree to an extent but the club still desperately needs to build a midfield. Which means that instead of persisting with players on the brink of being dropped back to the Sanfl, they should just cut the cord and look at others. Good teams dont let game results dictate selection over players who are struggling. One or two players is never the difference between winning and losing when its your 21st and 22nd ranked players in the side.

I get it if Tex and Dawson went down with injuries that would be tough. But no one can honestly say that playing only two of Sholl, McHenry, Murphy and Schoenberg with Nankervis and Cook is an automatic loss. This is why the argument is flawed. You should never stop looking to give games to players who need them just because you are winning or competitive in losses. If Port, Collingwood, Essendon can all do it this year why is it us who magically can't.

Again, there are 2 sides of the argument I just wanted to point out. You want to try a lot of the kids to know who belongs at AFL. Then the other perspective, is that if you’re part of a team that’s competing well against the top teams, then you deserve to get more games (general team ethos in most sports).

From the above, selections aren’t going to be an easy task if we win the games where we aren’t really expected to win or come to a highly respectable loss. When we lose and lose in a bad way (eg. blowout in that 1st quarter against the Dons), then here’s the chance to try some more lads without ruining the team ethos.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I know I keep harping on this but Jones shouldn’t have been moved off a wing, he attacks the ball strongly, his vision spotting up shorts or either long penetrating kick better suited than who playing there. He also has a Hughe tank and works his ares of from goal to goal,and covers that territory at good pace, also has speed on the outside, one of our worst decisions to shift him

Jones is currently our best wingman.

Understand we move him back in games where a defender is injured, but we started him in defence last week because we brought in a midfielder for an injured Butts... rather than bringing in another defender.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It wasn’t lack of effort yesterday. It was method around the ball. Over commit attacking the ball carrier on that ground and you’re dead. That’s what happens when you play venues once every 25 years.

Not sure about that as they appeared to be running harder to get numbers to the ball.

We didn't seem switched on early.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Lived on a diet of Tiger beer and Pho. Great coffee.

If you are in Ho Chi do a tour on the back of a moped. Great fun.

Best food experience holidaying in Vietnam.

Went to a place which had a selection of small brewers on tap both beer & ciders.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

If Berry is out of form , how is he going to get that form back in the SANFL?

Surely he either has the talent or does not have the talent and we need to back him in.

It's a bit concerning that consistently, he, Hatley and Crouch are our leading SANFL possession getters and apparently none are going to get picked in the AFL team.

Berry after a poor start to the season seems to be finding form in the sanfl.

Surely with some players struggling - both old & younger, it's time to bring him back into the side.

 

[Cap]

Berry after a poor start to the season seems to be finding form in the sanfl.

Surely with some players struggling - both old & younger, it's time to bring him back into the side.

I've got Murphy (a forward) and Sloane as the two outs I would like to see, but obviously Sloane isn't coming out, Berry for Murphy makes no sense.

What about Soligo and Pedlar? Love both, Pedlar had 9 CBA for 8 touches and 2 goals, Soligo and 4 CBA for 4 touches. Don't want to drop them, but for Berry ? Maybe?

Seems harsh to look at McHenry (who I'm not convinced is going to make it) and Sholl (who doesn't play midfield) to drop them, mind you Sholl was poor.

I also thought Schoenberg did enough to get a full game.

 

[MsTopG]

Jones is currently our best wingman.

Understand we move him back in games where a defender is injured, but we started him in defence last week because we brought in a midfielder for an injured Butts... rather than bringing in another defender.

I wanna see Jones and Soligo on the wings.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I've got Murphy (a forward) and Sloane as the two outs I would like to see, but obviously Sloane isn't coming out, Berry for Murphy makes no sense.

What about Soligo and Pedlar? Love both, Pedlar had 9 CBA for 8 touches and 2 goals, Soligo and 4 CBA for 4 touches. Don't want to drop them, but for Berry ? Maybe?

Seems harsh to look at McHenry (who I'm not convinced is going to make it) and Sholl (who doesn't play midfield) to drop them, mind you Sholl was poor.

I also thought Schoenberg did enough to get a full game.

Agree this week they are not dropping Sloane... so Berry may need to wait a week unless we look to manage one of the younger players.

McHenry should return to sub role unless we say want to manage Soligo in the sub role.

Agree Schoenberg should remain in the side.

If Butts is available, this allows Jones to return to a wing. If not, then we should bring in Borlase or Nankervis depending on how we want to use Worrell... or bring in Nankervis to allow Hinge to play on a wing.

B: Michalanney, Butts, Murray
HB: Milera, Worrell, Hinge
C: Keays, Dawson, Jones
HF: Pedlar, Walker, Sloane
F: Rankine, Fogarty, McAdam
R: O'Brien, Schoenberg, Laird
I: Smith, Soligo, Rachele, Thilthorpe
Sub: McHenry

Butts for Sholl
McAdam for Murphy