How many players are locked in to our best 22 for 2011?

[MC Extra Dollop]

A lot of people have pointed to this as an issue for Geelong from the past couple of years, simply not enough competition for spots and players getting too comfortable, despite sub-par performances. So who do you see as walk up starts throughout 2011, players whose position will never be questioned this season?

For me, it's

Scarlett
Taylor
Enright
Kelly
Ottens
Bartel
Selwood
Varcoe
Mooney
Pods
Hawkins (will be more valuable with the sub rule in an L. Brown kind of way)
Chapman
S. Johnson
T. Hunt
Ling (might not be a popular choice by me, but I think he'll bounce back and kick plenty of goals as a part time fp)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
That leaves seven spots up for grabs when our side is at full fitness with the following players probably positioned in soemthing like this order on the pecking list:

J. Hunt
Corey (very close call between him and Ling...let's see how Smithy goes when/if he's back to full-fitness)
Milburn
Wojcinski
Byrnes
Stokes
Mackie
Duncan
Lonergan
Simpson
Hogan
Gillies
Motlop
West
Menzel
Blake
The Kids

Note: I believe (and hope) that 4-6 of the U21 brigade can be regular senior players (and with the inevitable injuries throughout the year, this will probably happen). I just don't see many other than Hunt and Duncan being close to walk-up starts for Round 1, 2011. What do others think?

 

[Claude Balls]

Only the following players are walk-up starts IMO, provided they complete full preseasons:

B: _______ - Scarlett - ________
HB: Enright - Taylor__ - ________
C: Kelly___ - Bartel__ - ________
HF: Varcoe - _______ - Chapman
F: Stevie J - _______ - ________

Foll: ______, Selwood, _________


These guys are borderline walk-up starts, given their form and injury status in 2010:
- Corey
- Ling
- Ottens
- Mackie

These guys are caught in a love triangle and should be fighting for two spots:
- Podsiadly
- Mooney
- Hawkins

These guys should be fighting for the remaining spots
- Wojak (2010 form warrants inclusion, but age demands he prove himself again over preseason)
- T. Hunt
- Duncan
- Menzel
- J. Hunt
- Milburn
- Byrnes
- Blake
- West
- Lonergan
- Drum
- Gillies
- Stokes

 

[Boxhead_31]

This would be my take on players who are certain starters wk1 next year the rest are up to performance over the pre season


B: _______ - Scarlett - ________
HB: Enright - Taylor__ - Wojack
C: Kelly___ - Bartel__ - ________
HF: Varcoe - _______ - Chapman
F: Stevie J - Podsiadly - ________

Foll: ______, Selwood, _________

 

[Selective Retention]

Only the following players are walk-up starts IMO, provided they complete full preseasons:

B: _______ - Scarlett - ________
HB: Enright - Taylor__ - ________
C: Kelly___ - Bartel__ - ________
HF: Varcoe - _______ - Chapman
F: Stevie J - _______ - ________

Foll: ______, Selwood, _________

This is closer to my thinking, the others are generous.

Certainly we don't want Stevie J believing that he's a walk up start but he is if the attitude is right.

Kelly would be on 09/10 form. Needs to continue that sort of form under the new coach to be guaranteed as a lock.

Varcoe is still on potential a bit, hopefully will be a lock we need him to be.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

If we base it purely on form, not reputation, as Scott said, well on 09 form:
B Blank Scarlett Blank
HB Enright Taylor Blank
C: Kelly Bartel Blank
HF: Chapman Blank Blank
FF: SJ Pods Varcoe
R: Blank Selwood Blank
Int: Blank Blank Blank Blank

Now that should be the only ones every other spot should be up for grabs. Having said that I expect a lot of other players to keep their spots, but they shouldn't be completely untouchable as most were under Scott.

Of the vacant spots there, I expect Wojo, and Byrnes to keep their spots, and maybe even Hawkins, and Ling, Mooney, Milburn, maybe Ottens (depending on West and Simpson's progress), Stokes Lonergan and Corey (depending on the state of his knee) to be the ones that drop out of the 22.

Menzel, Duncan, THunt, Motlop, Hogan, Drum, Christensen, West, Simpson, Vardy will be the ones that push up and most of them will break into the 22 at some stage, whether they hold their spots permanently we will see.

 

[True Blue Cat]

Nobody. I think it is good that everyone is going to have to earn their spot and not just show up and be handed one. I know that majority of the team will hold their spot week in week out no problem but i am glad that nobody will be locked in.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Nobody. I think it is good that everyone is going to have to earn their spot and not just show up and be handed one. I know that majority of the team will hold their spot week in week out no problem but i am glad that nobody will be locked in.

This.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Nobody. I think it is good that everyone is going to have to earn their spot and not just show up and be handed one. I know that majority of the team will hold their spot week in week out no problem but i am glad that nobody will be locked in.

It's a good attitude to have and I'm sure it will be one that is espoused by the playing group and coaching staff. But Scarlett, Selwood or Bartel could take a dump in the middle of the Skilled Stadium oval and you wouldn't see them playing in the scoobies in 2011.

Upon further consideration though, Ottens is a much iffier prospect than I posted initially.

 

[Hinkley29]

In no particular order, the only walk-up starts that we have for next year are:

Scarlett
Taylor
Enright
Bartel
Kelly
SJ
Varcoe
Selwood
Chapman

If fitness holds, Ottens is a walk up start based on our comparatively weak ruck division. Obvioulsy this is a big if.

Everyone else is up for grabs.

No way is Pods a walk up best 22 starter.

 

[Claude Balls]

^^ Same 9 that I listed. And I agree that Pods is far from a walk-up start.

 

[Enth Degree]

Irrespective of what Scott says now, I think he will stay with pretty much the tried & true early doors. And why wouldn't he? If they are injury free they deserve to start and then we'll see what happens from there.

IMO this will be our starting team in 2011. Until we play a game and barring injury the highlighted players are still in our best 22.

B: Milburn Scarlett J.Hunt
HB: Enright Taylor Corey
C: Mackie Selwood Bartel
HF: Brown Podsiadly Chapman
F: Stokes Mooney Johnson
R: Ottens Kelly T. Varcoe
Int: Hawkins Duncan Ling Wojo

 

[rocker_oz33]

clean canvas really,players from now on will have the earn there spot under scott,only scarlo,harry,Boris,jimmy,sally,chappy,sj,varcoe are safe.really looking forward to see plenty of young players in the hoops this season.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Nobody. I think it is good that everyone is going to have to earn their spot and not just show up and be handed one. I know that majority of the team will hold their spot week in week out no problem but i am glad that nobody will be locked in.

True but I think it's safe to say that the likes of Bartel, Selwood, Scarlett, Varcoe, Enright, Taylor, Kelly, SJ and Chapman will make it quite easily. The only doubts over those guys are Chappies hammies, Scarlett's age and SJ's form, which he struggled with early this year.

 

[you pick one]

A lot of people have pointed to this as an issue for Geelong from the past couple of years, simply not enough competition for spots and players getting too comfortable, despite sub-par performances. So who do you see as walk up starts throughout 2011, players whose position will never be questioned this season?


If the following players are fit they will be the first five picked each week.
Scarlett
Taylor
Bartel
Mooney
Pods
The rest will be selected with regards to the opposition strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

A lot of people have pointed to this as an issue for Geelong from the past couple of years, simply not enough competition for spots and players getting too comfortable, despite sub-par performances. So who do you see as walk up starts throughout 2011, players whose position will never be questioned this season?


If the following players are fit they will be the first five picked each week.
Scarlett
Taylor
Bartel
Mooney
Pods
The rest will be selected with regards to the opposition strengths and weaknesses.

You would pick Mooney and Pods ahead of Selwood and Chapman?

 

[you pick one]

You would pick Mooney and Pods ahead of Selwood and Chapman?

No I'm not saying that at all,I'm saying I believe they will be the spine of the side on which we will build each week.
Selwood, Chapman,Enright,Kelly.Stevie. J, Varco,will be with them.
So eleven of the twenty two at least locked in for me.

 

[year of the cat]

Only the following players are walk-up starts IMO, provided they complete full preseasons:

B: _______ - Scarlett - ________
HB: Enright - Taylor__ - ________
C: Kelly___ - Bartel__ - ________
HF: Varcoe - _______ - Chapman
F: Stevie J - _______ - ________

Foll: ______, Selwood, _________

That would be it for me too. Can't see how anyone else has a definite claim on any position.

 

[OldStyle2007]

I read this thread and go "thank god bomber is gone and stokes isn't a lock anymore"

 

[Pure_Ownage]

No way is Pods a walk up best 22 starter.

Should have clarified.

I was picking my team purely for round 1 (it's too hard to guess what it should be like for round 12 or something) and he absolutely should be a walk up start for round 1, no doubt whatsoever, because to me the way you pick a round 1 team is you straight away slot in the 10 or so guys who performed the best in the previous year (hence the ones I listed) and then the remaining spots go to those who perform best in pre season.

Obviously Pods is by no means a walk up start after that, unless he continues his 2010 form (in which case yes).

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I read this thread and go "thank god bomber is gone and stokes isn't a lock anymore"

I read this thread and go 'thank God Scott's going to not put up with Stokes inconsistency like Bomber was because Stokes obviously had incriminating pictures or something'

Irrespective of what Scott says now, I think he will stay with pretty much the tried & true early doors. And why wouldn't he? If they are injury free they deserve to start and then we'll see what happens from there.

IMO this will be our starting team in 2011. Until we play a game and barring injury the highlighted players are still in our best 22.

B: Milburn Scarlett J.Hunt
HB: Enright Taylor Corey
C: Mackie Selwood Bartel
HF: Brown Podsiadly Chapman
F: Stokes Mooney Johnson
R: Ottens Kelly T. Varcoe
Int: Hawkins Duncan Ling Wojo

Because as Partridge would say (and far better than me), that didn't work in 2010, some of them didn't perform in 2010, and hence don't deserve to start automatically in 2011.

Besides which, Scott has laid a marker down, which he now must follow, or he'll lose all credibility. You can't come in and say 'no walk up starts any more, i want to see what you all can do, i will be prepared to drop older blokes etc etc' and then just pick the same 22 in round 1 that bomber played last year. Do that and the players know your stance is empty words and you'll never follow through and you've done more harm than good and shat your own credibility.

So I'm not saying we will have wholesale changes, some of the older players in your highlighted team will play round 1, IF they have good pre seasons, but not all of them will be in the team as per the way you have listed it. It won't be all the 'tried and true' straight up.

 

[year of the cat]

Should have clarified.

I was picking my team purely for round 1 (it's too hard to guess what it should be like for round 12 or something) and he absolutely should be a walk up start for round 1, no doubt whatsoever, because to me the way you pick a round 1 team is you straight away slot in the 10 or so guys who performed the best in the previous year (hence the ones I listed) and then the remaining spots go to those who perform best in pre season.

Obviously Pods is by no means a walk up start after that, unless he continues his 2010 form (in which case yes).

No, you pick the team based on the players that are fit and have shown the best form in the pre-season irrespective of how they performed 5 months earlier. I think you might need to take your Pods googles off every now and again!!! If Mooney and Hawkins are performing better in the pre-season they should be in the team round one and Pods will have to EARN his place along with every other player.

That goes for every player.

I think the list that Claude Balls had is a realistic representation of the players (with the possible exception of Varcoe) that have showed consistent form over a number of years and would be expected to be locks in round one, injury status aside.

 

[Claude Balls]

Should have clarified.

I was picking my team purely for round 1 (it's too hard to guess what it should be like for round 12 or something) and he absolutely should be a walk up start for round 1, no doubt whatsoever, because to me the way you pick a round 1 team is you straight away slot in the 10 or so guys who performed the best in the previous year (hence the ones I listed) and then the remaining spots go to those who perform best in pre season.

Obviously Pods is by no means a walk up start after that, unless he continues his 2010 form (in which case yes).

I disagree. The only players who are walk up starts are those for whom fitness is the ONLY question. I.e. they are the most talented players on the list and have performed consistently for several seasons. Bartel, Enright, Selwood etc... if they are fit, they play.

Pods has only one year behind him, so does not fall into this category. What will Scott do if all three KPFs are 100% fit but Hawk and Mooney combine much better in the NAB cup? He won't automatically pick Pods based solely on 2010.

 

[Claude Balls]

I read this thread and go "thank god bomber is gone and stokes isn't a lock anymore"

At least we'll know Stokes is more valuable than he appears if Scott does select him consistently. That is of course if Scott is true to his word about the selection process.

 

[CF]

Can't argue too much with what you guys are saying.

Our top ten players IMHO are:

1. Joel Selwwod
2. Paul Chapman
3. Jimmy Bartel
4. Corey Enright
5. James Kelly
6. Stevie Johnson.
7. Harry Taylor.
8. Travis Varcoe
9. Matthew Scarlett
10. James Podsiadly

Old Guard with Question Marks:

Mooney: has been on the slide down since 2008 GF. Last year he was mostly ineffectual.
Corey: I think his best days are behind him now.
Milburn: Has a great footy Brain but is now too slow
Wojak: age is the question mark, but will play.
Ottens: injury prone
Ling: too slow to be a run with player now, needs a new position

Others:

J Hunt: Had a decent 2010 but is just too slow
Byrnes: probably will play
Stokes: is there a place for him now Bomber is gone.
Blake: new interchange rule could spell the end for him
Hawkins: Is he a ruckman or a forward? Becoming a disappointment. Let's hope Scott can get more out of him.
Mackie: He will Play. 2010 will be the kick up the bum he needed.
West: The new interchange set up is taylor made for him to become Otto's heir apparent.
Hogan: He has the smarts & ability but just not the physicality
Lonergan: Does a job when needed, but not an A grade player just a work horse.
Simpson: Will the big bloke go the same way as Blakey due to the interchange

Noobs:

Menzel: impressed last year. Will get games.
Drum: hopefully he will get over his injuries and step up.
Gillies: Had a flying AFL debut in 2009 and then faded off.
Billie Smedts: drafted this year might slot in nicely off the bat into the midfield.
Motlop: Has X factor. Hopefully will play this year after a horrific injury in his AFL debut 2010.
Duncan: Shows promise needs a chance in the AFL.
Guthrie: Could take over from Ling as our prime shut down man.
Brown: Maybe Mooneys heir but needs AFL game time to develop.
T Hunt: Exciting Debut in 2010. Will play 2011 (for PO)

 

[Pure_Ownage]

No, you pick the team based on the players that are fit and have shown the best form in the pre-season irrespective of how they performed 5 months earlier. I think you might need to take your Pods googles off every now and again!!! If Mooney and Hawkins are performing better in the pre-season they should be in the team round one and Pods will have to EARN his place along with every other player.

That goes for every player.

I think the list that Claude Balls had is a realistic representation of the players (with the possible exception of Varcoe) that have showed consistent form over a number of years and would be expected to be locks in round one, injury status aside.

What are googles?

Seriously, you are misunderstanding my point. Obviously you give preference to guys who are outstanding in the pre season, and by contrast, guys might get injured, be it Pods or whoever, or say Varcoe, and they might not play round 1. I wasn't saying pre season wasn't important, and obviously you must 'clean the slate' to give opportunities But what happens if you have 35 blokes gun it over the pre season? You can't pick them all. In which case it's perfectly logical that you'd go back to the players who performed best over 2010 and allocate a round 1 spot to them before the rest. Which would mean Pods, along with the others I listed, would go straight in your team.

I don't have any googles btw, Pods is on the list because he performed in 2010, if he didn't he wouldn't be, and I wouldn't put him on it. And when he ceases to perform, h won't be on it Regardless of which players I do or don't like, I leave my personal feelings out of selection, otherwise I'd be a hypocrite to have a crack at the recently departed. The list I initially posted is quite simple because it is the players who were the best for us last year.

I disagree. The only players who are walk up starts are those for whom fitness is the ONLY question. I.e. they are the most talented players on the list and have performed consistently for several seasons. Bartel, Enright, Selwood etc... if they are fit, they play.

Pods has only one year behind him, so does not fall into this category. What will Scott do if all three KPFs are 100% fit but Hawk and Mooney combine much better in the NAB cup? He won't automatically pick Pods based solely on 2010.

Have to disagree philosophically. Don't get me wrong, the guys you listed have performed for years, but we ought not to get into this 'pick blokes because they've been good for so many years stuff'. That's where you get into this rubbish two tiered selection policy that Thompson had that was just so bad, and we ought to damn well be leaving behind. Now this isn't a slight on Selwood, Bartel, Enright etc etc, because obviously they have performed over a number of years, but realistically you should only pick based on the preceding year IMHO.

Frankly, the guys on my list are there because they were our best players all year in 2010, and yes Podsiadly was one of them. They weren't there because they are names or because they've had a few great seasons. If they were great players over previous seasons, but didn't have a great year this year (ie. Mackie) they aren't a walk up start for my next year's team. Obviously in a real world that's irrelevant because guys of the Taylor, Bartel, Kelly quality are highly unlikely to ever have a really poor seasons, but once you starting picking blokes for their long service, you get bias on and you keep picking them if they stop performing (this was the Thompson mantra).

In relation to your bolded point, that's the biased mindset people have to get away from. If you're picking a team to reward performance, then you reward all the blokes who performed (or if you don't want to do that then you reward none of them), you don't reward some because they're names, and not others because they're first year players (which is what you're suggesting with Pods). You reward everyone who performed, as all of those blokes did, including Pods. I left a number of players who I consider to be far better players than Pods, off my walk up start list, because they might be better players, but they didn't perform better in 2010. When they perform in 2011 (or if), then they'll become walk up starts for 2012, and if Pods drops off, he will cease to be one. That's what you should do, it's a fair selection policy that rewards performance not names (well the fairest selection policy that can be devised given all the variables involved). SJ, Pods and Chapman were our three best forwards in 2010, so they are the three walk up start forwards for round 1 2011.

What would Scott do if Mooney or Hawkins perform better? He'd make a change of course...it's gotta be open to change over time, and so if other blokes raise their level and others drop theirs, then they change. I wasn't suggesting Pods would be automatically picked based on 2010, just that it's a factor. Like the whole, if you rate two players equally, you draft the one that suits your needs more. Well if you have two (or three) forward perform equally well over the pre season, but you can't pick them all, you're going to split them by going back to who performed the best over '10.