Expansion How the West will be won

[Professor Knowall]

An all-encompassing article from todays Age, about how the new West Sydney club will be built up, with issues covered such as local community support, its new name, recruitment etc. Long, but an interesting read -

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/how-the-west-will-be-won/2008/04/12/1207856926000.html

"How the west will be won
David Sygall The Age April 13, 2008

On a whiteboard in Dale Holmes' sun-drenched office at the Sydney Football Stadium, a graphic outlines the AFL's win-at-all-costs strategy to build a team in western Sydney.

From the bottom up, it reads: implement business plan, put forward business case for club, get right people on board, begin licence. The top two tiers of the graphic show phase two: build the club and build the team.

If Holmes and his staff get it right, a new team will run onto ANZ Stadium in March 2012 to play its first AFL game. It will have strong local sponsorship and a small core of locally bred players. It will have significant multicultural representation on and off the field. It may not win, but it won't get thumped.

There will be a big crowd, most of whom live west of the central business district. Some will be Swans fans, others will be AFL fans who have rarely been to a match. They will watch — and hopefully support — a team whose identity will be unique, reflecting the 14 local government areas that form the region.

The team's name might not be Western Sydney. That is yet to be decided. "Calling it simply Western Sydney might not enable us to connect to the wide variety of people we want," Holmes says. The naming process is a microcosm of Holmes' game plan for building the new club. It will be community-focused, he says. It will be settled after locals have been consulted. How the club is marketed, positioned and designed will also come down to locals. At least, that's the plan. "There might be focus groups, promotions — a whole range of campaigns to garner information about how we go about it," Holmes says. "But the name is a very important piece and something we'll consider strongly when the time comes."

That is a snapshot of Holmes' brief. He is the NSW-ACT AFL general manager and is on the AFL's national executive. He oversees 60 people working in game development in NSW and six who are specifically charged with project western Sydney. That number will grow as Holmes aims for a 2010 launch in preparation for a 2012 on-field debut.

Holmes reported to last November's AFL Commission meeting on the dynamics of the Sydney market. That presentation led to the AFL's decision to proceed with expanding to the region. In December, when North Melbourne rejected the AFL's offer to move to the Gold Coast, the AFL Commission considered an 18-team configuration and a decision was made to accelerate the establishment of western Sydney from 2015 to 2012. If the Gold Coast club is playing by 2011, as hoped, western Sydney might be brought forward, too.

The plan has many sceptics. Concerns include the impact on clubs' playing lists, the ability of the AFL to expand the code in a region where the vast majority of people have no interest, and the adjustment the new club will force on the Swans. However, on Holmes' desk, a thick book filled with statistics paints a rosy picture. He starts with one staggering figure — only two clubs, the Brisbane Lions and the Swans, cover 54% of Australia's population.

He continues. Nearly half the sales of Swans three-match passes for games at Homebush Bay are bought by people from west of the CBD. He points out the high percentage of western Sydney players among the growing number of registered teams. He talks of the high percentage of western Sydney households with pay television and the significant percentage of those that watch Swans games. He compares the number of NSW-based AFL club members with the number of those who are Swans supporters. He concludes that the new club needs 20,000 members — only 1% of the population of western Sydney — to be considered a success.

"Therefore, it's a niche which other clubs shouldn't fear," Holmes says, wary of the Swans' concerns. "The new club must be different to the Swans, not so much along socio-economic lines, more around geography. The club must complement the Swans, not compete." Holmes admits, however, that there will be some cross-over of supporters. "The club will have new fans," he says. "Some may be Swans supporters, but the majority will be AFL supporters in some form. There's a large existing base in NSW … there is a genuine geographical divide that makes it difficult for people in western Sydney to get to the SCG."

Holmes has almost endless finances at his disposal. The AFL has learnt from the past, including its mistake in plonking the Swans in Sydney in 1982 and arrogantly predicting people would inevitably see the light. Second teams in Perth and Adelaide were risky, too. But Sydney is unique because the game hardly has a foundation. Big money will be invested.

But money and statistics cannot build emotional attachment. There are plenty of club members in NSW, but will a lifelong Richmond supporter opt to support western Sydney? That's one of Holmes' quandaries. "It's about how smart we are in engaging community, government, business and other sports," he says. "Money alone won't make it work."

One way it could work, he believes, is to appeal to multicultural communities and make it a strength of the new club. "Multicultural communities will play a big role in the new club, specifically the African and Asian communities," he says (ed - this is a strategy the Western Bulldogs are using in the Western suburbs of Melbourne).

Another method is to use local talent. Gold Coast and western Sydney are expected to have priority access to young talent nationwide and fair access to current players. "The first-year list must have a mix of age and experience so it can be competitive," he says. "The talent base is growing in NSW. Queensland doubled its list representation in the past five years and I think we can achieve that. There are 35 NSW-ACT players on AFL lists, about 5% of players. There are many successes — Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Paul Bevan, Jarrad McVeigh, Lenny Hayes … I'm comfortable building the list for the new club. We'll achieve a good outcome."

Holmes will work closely in coming years with AFL broadcasting and commercial operations manager Gillon McLachlan, who understands the balance the new club must strike to create a list including locals that appeals to the community, does not greatly affect other clubs and performs well. "I don't think western Sydney will win the flag in its first year," McLachlan says. "But we can't have a team that's not competitive. It will be a team that's successful in relative terms, aspiring for the top eight. We don't want to put existing clubs in too much of an onerous position. We don't want them to feel that they will be raided. But they will have to be to some extent."

The AFL, McLachlan says, is yet to speak with potential sponsors, but there are few nerves about corporate interest. He believes businesses will queue to be involved. "AFL teams generate $100 million a year in economic activity," McLachlan says. "We know their community connections and the power of our franchises. We're comfortable western Sydney sponsorships will be sought after. If we get the base right, sponsorships will follow."

The club's character will shape as the blocks fall into place, says McLachlan, and the cross-town rivalry will be a huge bonus. "Look at the Gold Coast Titans. Originally, the Broncos were concerned, but it's been good for them. They are positively engaged, not ambivalent. That's what we want. "I don't think western Sydney is the be-all and end-all. But it's extremely important. We've invested heavily in Sydney, particularly in the past three or four years … The next step is to get a team out there. "We'll do this in a way that will be successful … We'll do whatever is required. We'll spend whatever it takes to ensure we have a presence out there."

 

[genghiskhan]

An all-encompassing article from todays Age, about how the new West Sydney club will be built up, with issues covered such as local community support, its new name, recruitment etc. Long, but an interesting read -

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/how-the-west-will-be-won/2008/04/12/1207856926000.html

"How the west will be won
David Sygall The Age April 13, 2008

Indeed interesting, and it is good to see that they seem to appreciate that entertainment without emotion will lead to failure.

I would like to more about how they play to build a story that rallies community support for a team that is being established to increase the value of television rights. I didn't anything in the article that would fill me with confidence here. Maybe that will come with time, otherwise it will be the Kangaroos all over again.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

This was also in the Sun-Herald the Sunday Age's sister paper in Sydney. There are a couple of graphics which I'm not sure if they were in the Age, but they weren't in the online article. I'll put them in as they make for interesting reading and tie in with the above article.

The Facts Behind the AFL's Western Push

• 46% of the three match passes sold for Swans matches at the Olympic Stadium last year were bought by people from western Sydney.
• 30% of people in Sydney who watch Swans games on free to air tv live in western Sydney.
• 40% of people in western Sydney have pay TV whereas only 37 have it in Sydney.
• There are 2,500 registered players at senior levels in NSW and 9,200 in community clubs, of which 3,000 are from western Sydney.
• 36,000 children play Auskick in NSW of which 7,500 are from western Sydney.
• There are 370 teams in Sydney primary schools, up from just 24 three years ago.

Having lived in Sydney for the best part of the last 15 years, that last point is the most impressive inroad the AFL has made in that time in respect of Aussie rules development outside the swans involvement.

There also is a map of what is considerd western Sydney by council region and the population in those councils which total around 1.8 million people.

North of Blacktown
Baulkham Hills 178,577
Hawkesbury 66,748

Blacktown 301,427

West of Blacktown
Penrith 190,847
Blue Mountains 77,753

Between Blacktown and the Olympic Stadium ie east/ south east of Blacktown
Paramatta 161,960
Auburn 77,743 (council area that Olympic stadium is in)
Holroyd 100,423

South of Blacktown
Fairfield 189,764
Bankstown 180,549
Liverpool 195,129
Campbelltown 160,573
Camden 67,340
Wollondilly 45,558

Another graphic in the article was a list of players who were recruited from NSW and their junior club. I have put the area/league that club is in to give you an idea how many players come from the Sydney area and how many come from south of a straight line between Broken Hill, Wagga Wagga and the Coast ie a traditional Aussie rules country area.

SYDNEY

Ed Barlow Bega (Southern NSW)
Leo Barry Deniliquin (Murray Football League)
Paul Bevan Western Suburbs (Inner West Sydney AFL) His great uncle Brian Bevan was an Aussie who ended up in England because of WWII and played RL test matches for England and is the world record try scorer. (Editted as was his great uncle not uncle)

Craig Bird Nelson Bay ( Newcastle/Black Diamond FL) ** Father from SA who played Port reserves in SANFL
Craig Bolton Eastlake (ACT)
Nick Davis St George (Sydney AFL) ** Father Craig from Vic played in VFL 100+ games
Kieran Jack Pennant Hills ( western Sydney team in the Sydney AFL) ** Father played 200+ games for Balmain Tigers in the then NSWRL (now NRL) + State of Origin games + 20 odd tests for Australia
Bret Kirk North Albury ( Ovens and Murray FL)
Ben Matthews Cowra-Rutherglen ( Ovens and Murray FL)
Jarrad McVeigh Pennant Hills (western Sydney)
Henry Playfair North Shore ( Sydney AFL)
Lewis Roberts-Thompson North Shore ( Sydney AFL) ** Father from Vic who played U/19 for one of Vic teams

ST KILDA
Sam Gilbert ?? played rugby league on the NSW North coast
Lenny Hayes Pennant Hills (western Sydney)
Justin Kozitsche Brocklesbury/Albury (Hume FL)
Adam Schnider Osborne (Hume FL)

WESTERN BULLDOGS
Dylan Addison St George (Sydney AFL)
Daniel Cross Albury ( Ovens and Murray FL)
Malcolm Lynch St Ignatius College - Riverview
** local Sydney catholic school that swans have put a few country NSW recruits in to do year 12, Leo Barry comes to mind as one. Since 2004 St Iggies have put together several Aussie rules teams as part of their sports program. One of the traditional powerhouse Rugby Union school in the GPS comp. The AFL use this school and its facilities to do camps and training for the scholarship kids, NSW-ACT U/16 and U/18 teams.

ADELAIDE CROWS
Tony Amstrong Burrumbuttock ( Hume FL)
Bryce Campbell Turvey Park (Wagga in the Riverina FL)
Taylor Walker Broken Hill North

HAWTHORN
Shane Crawford Finley (Murray FL)
Ben McGlynn Wentworth (Sunraysia FL)

WEST COAST
Ryan Davis North Shore ( Sydney AFL)
Brent Staker West Broken Hill

GEELONG
Tom Hawkins Finley (Murray FL)
Cameron Mooney Turvey Park (Wagga in the Riverina FL)

CARLTON
Ryan Houlihan Cowra-Rutherglen ( Ovens and Murray FL)

KANGAROOS
Hamish McIntosh Lavington (Ovens and Murray FL)

ESSENDON
MarkMcVeigh Pennant Hills (western Sydney)

BRISBANE
Wayde Mills Lennox Head (Northern NSW - Summerland FL, ie Byron Bay, Ballina, Lismore)

FREMANTLE
Dean Solomon North Broken Hill

 

[ChrisFooty]

Ovens and Murray recruits are from AFL heartland just about. Apparently australian rules football is bigger than rugby league in Albury/Lavington/Corowa

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

That's pretty much what I said, that if you get a map of NSW and draw a line between Broken Hill and Wagga and continue it thru to the coast on that same angle then south of that line you are in traditional Aussie rule heartland, not that much different to south of the Murray.

That's why when they developed the NSW scholarship scheme to develop NSW kids they banned clubs from getting kids from that area I talked about. For some reason the line was somewhat south of Broken Hill and Broken Hill kids were allowed to be picked up under the NSW scholarship scheme.

 

[ChrisFooty]

I would not classify Wagga in the AFL area. Sure AFL exists there, but it's not a heartland. I think it's a great you get both League and AR there.

 

[littleduck]

"The Facts Behind the AFL's Western Push"

46% of the three match passes sold for Swans matches at the Olympic Stadium last year were bought by people from western Sydney. Proves the Swans are succesful in Western Sydney and a second team will adverselty affect its supporter base.

30% of people in Sydney who watch Swans games on free to air tv live in western Sydney. Shows that a second team will affect one-third of the Swans already pitiful television audience.

40% of people in western Sydney have pay TV whereas only 37 have it in Sydney. Shows WS is a RL stronghold.

There are 2,500 registered players at senior levels in NSW and 9,200 in community clubs, of which 3,000 are from western Sydney.
36,000 children play Auskick in NSW of which 7,500 are from western Sydney.
There are 370 teams in Sydney primary schools, up from just 24 three years ago. Impressive, but anything less would be disastrous considering the size of the financial investment by the AFL in recent years.

 

[littleduck]

/delete

 

[Ancient and Loyal]

Pennant Hills IS NOT WESTERN SYDNEY!!!

It's part of Hornsby FFS.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Ovens and Murray recruits are from AFL heartland just about. Apparently australian rules football is bigger than rugby league in Albury/Lavington/Corowa

I lived in Albury for a few years, and go back there regularly still to see family and friends, so know it very well. Its true that this is as much Australian Football (not AFL ) heartland as anywhere in Vic/SA/WA/Tas - maybe even more so. In fact, its the centre of the most successful, richest regional league in Australia (Ovens & Murray), where good players can earn over $50k per year, and relatively big crowds attend e.g. over 50,000 attended last years finals series, crowds can be over 5,000 for some home & away games). Rugby league exists, but is a very minor sport. This year the local WIN TV stopped showing RL games live on Friday night.

I would not classify Wagga in the AFL area. Sure AFL exists there, but it's not a heartland. I think it's a great you get both League and AR there.

It more than just exists, for over the last 20 years, it has overtaken rugby league in both participation and spectators to be the leading winter sport. However, rugby league is still well entrenched with a good following (in fact many juniors play and follow both codes). So in that sense, its true that it isn’t hearland Australian Football like it is in Albury.

LD, more stirring the pot. His points predictabley take no account of the grwoth in the last 2 -3 years, and the impact a West Sydney based club will have in accelerating that growth (but of course that doesn't fit in with his "spin-doctoring"). And how disastrous is this? - Sydney metro region only players in the AFL -

Name, AFL club, recruited from

1. Henry Playfair, Sydney, North Shore

2. Lewis Roberts-Thompson, Sydney, North Shore

3. Ryan Davis, West Coast, North Shore

4. Khan Haretuku, St Kilda, Eastern Suburbs

5. Mark McVeigh, Essendon, Pennant Hills

6. Jarrad McVeigh, Sydney, Pennant Hills

7. Lenny Hayes, St Kilda, Pennant Hills

8. Keiran Jack, Sydney, Pennant Hills (son of a RL legend)

9. James Wilson, North Melb, St George

10. Nick Davis, Sydney, St George

11. Dylan Addison, Western Bulldogs, St George

12. Paul Bevan, Sydney, Western Suburbs

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Pennant Hills IS NOT WESTERN SYDNEY!!!

It's part of Hornsby FFS.

Ok agree that Pennant Hills is in the Hornsby council and West Pennant Hills is in the Baulkham Hill Council as well as the Hornsby council. I tend to lump all those Hills suburbs out North West as one big area.

But Pennant Hills is directly north of the Olympic Stadium, which is pretty much the boundary of what the AFL considers is the geographic base to analysis western Sydney and its demand for footy. So a club on the border is the most successful Sydney AFL club and NSW club in producing AFL listed players. Thats probably a more important fact than which council the footy club sits in.

 

[genghiskhan]

Ok agree that Pennant Hills is in the Hornsby council and West Pennant Hills is in the Baulkham Hill Council as well as the Hornsby council. I tend to lump all those Hills suburbs out North West as one big area.

But Pennant Hills is directly north of the Olympic Stadium, which is pretty much the boundary of what the AFL considers is the geographic base to analysis western Sydney and its demand for footy. So a club on the border is the most successful Sydney AFL club and NSW club in producing AFL listed players. Thats probably a more important fact than which council the footy club sits in.

It may not be west of the south side of the harbour, but it is west of the north side of the harbour. I'm sure all of us who have disputed the location of Pennant Hills can agree that it isn't in walking distance of the beach.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

It may not be west of the south side of the harbour, but it is west of the north side of the harbour. I'm sure all of us who have disputed the location of Pennant Hills can agree that it isn't in walking distance of the beach.

Hear hear

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Another story in this morning's SMH picked up by the Age

AFL ups the ante in western Sydney
Jacquelin Magnay | April 14, 2008

AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou said he was prepared to double the amount of money being thrown at western Sydney to establish a second successful team in the city, with the more affluent areas of the north-western suburbs firmly in his sights.

As the battle for the hearts and minds of sporting parents in the west intensifies, Demetriou told the ABC Offsiders program yesterday that even the naming of the second AFL team would be in the hands of the Sydney market, to encourage a sense of ownership. But he conceded the next six months was critical to the AFL's plans.

He said the AFL's initial $20 million funding for the expansion from from 16 to 18 teams - by the rapid introduction of a second Sydney team and a Gold Coast franchise would not be enough money and was preparing to inject up to $40 million to make the expansion work.

Demetriou said the AFL would inject "significant" amounts of money into western Sydney to win over the population, but also to placate the Sydney Swans.

"We've committed some $20 million into our new markets fund which is for the Gold Coast and Western Sydney, we're probably going to double that, given that we're now accelerating the push into Western Sydney," Demetriou said.

"But the fact of the matter is that we actually know that we're not on people's minds in western Sydney - we accept that, but we are making inroads into schools, into community football, we're getting facilities built, we've got a relationship with the Blacktown City Council which we're really proud of."

Demetriou said the Swans had not been against a second Sydney team but comments about buying the team's silence was "a bit unfair", especially after he briefed Swans officials last week.

"In all our dealings with the Swans, in fairness, they've never been anti a second team in Sydney," he said.

Demetriou said the second Sydney AFL team was two to three years behind where the code would like it to be in planning terms and was "certainly behind the Gold Coast" preparations but the code wanted to introduce two new teams together.

Demetriou also revealed the AFL was not only targeting the west of Sydney but also the north-west, with the new name to reflect that.

Demetriou won't only be needing to double expansion funding but will be dipping into any funds left in the Future Fund when the western Sydney team. Given that the statistical average AFL club had turnover of $32.05mil

AFL chief executive officer Andrew Demetriou released the results of the AFL’s club financial review at a briefing in Melbourne on Wednesday and said club profitability grew from $11 million in 2006 to the record figure of $27 million, with AFL club revenue increasing by 15 per cent to $512.7 million.

and that about $27mil is football generated (ie no pubs, social clubs outside investments) the second Sydney team will need between $6mil to $10mil subsidy over it's base distribution from the AFL in its first 5 years and probably also in its next 5 years after that.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I like Patrick Smith's sarcastic spin on how the Barry Hall incident might also help win over the west.

Demetriou now has a killer punch
Patrick Smith | April 14, 2008

LOOKING for a positive here and we might have found it. Barry Hall's outrageous left hook might be a brilliant marketing ploy by the imaginative AFL task force ordered to bring the delights of the Australian game to Blacktown and surrounds.

Hall, by his standards, has been not quite a saint since joining the Swans but at least a pious monk. His last suspension happened in 2002, his first year with the Sydney club after crossing from St Kilda. Before that he had been found guilty of kneeing, striking and head butting and suspended for a total of 11 games.

His five-match outing in 2002 came after he was found guilty of making unnecessary contact to the face of Port Adelaide ruckman Matthew Primus. So Hall is no one-trick pony. He is a handyman hard man. He does a bit of everything.

Add it all up and he could be the marketing tool the AFL needs to win over the good folk of Blacktown. Hall has the ability, and West Coast's Brent Staker will vouch for this, to entertain in a most brutal fashion.

And given that at the very heart of rugby league's and rugby union's appeal is their ability to meet supporters' insatiable desire for a "bit of biffo", then Hall shapes as the Blacktown poster boy from heaven - or hell. A no-brainer, really, just like that Hall moment at ANZ Stadium on Saturday night.

While the AFL feverishly talks up the interest in the game in western Sydney, Hall's punch will penetrate the psyche of the locals more deeply and swiftly than any amount of league propaganda.

The AFL has convinced the football community it will spend as much as $40million on new markets based on fragile facts like this: 30 per cent of people in Sydney who watch the Swans on commercial television live in western Sydney. That is, in fact, 30 per cent of bugger-all.

AFL boss Andrew Demetriou did not seem to share the optimistic view that Hall's neanderthal spasm on Saturday night will help the league make a clenched fist of conquering Blacktown. He said on the ABC's Offsiders program yesterday that it would be inappropriate to comment before the match review panel had assessed the incident. But he looked glum, aware that Hall would make headlines but not the sort that the ever-preening AFL likes.

No doubt Demetriou would have done his sums. Hall, on viewing the video of his clash with Staker, should be heading for the tribunal. Three points for an intentional blow, four points for severe impact and two points for high contact takes the matter out of the match review panel's hands. And that is not a bad thing, for already this season it has made some puzzling decisions. With nine activation points the matter is immediately referred to the tribunal. Hall is looking at a six-match suspension.

For West Coast, all of this is a timely distraction. Intense scrutiny of the club is required but it will be lost while the football world deals with Hall.

It is only three years ago that Sydney and West Coast were at the height of a great rivalry. The 2005 premiership went to Sydney, West Coast beat the Swans in 2006. West Coast won both clashes last year but by a mere 11 points collectively.

The difference between the clubs now is vast. It has developed suddenly, but, in hindsight, inevitably. West Coast is a club confused. Where once it was run by the players, the administration is attempting to re-establish control. The executive warns the players that mediocrity will not be tolerated, the coaching staff says administrators must mind their own business.

West Coast had a drug issue within the club that it chose not to address. Ben Cousins is now gone because he succumbed to addiction, Chris Judd has returned to Melbourne in great part because he could not tolerate the culture of the club. It left the club without two of the greatest midfielders to have played the game.

Daniel Kerr is now the key onballer and he is a target like never before. Once he was dynamic, now he is merely hard working. Forwards Quinten Lynch and Ashley Hansen must fossick for the ball when once it was lobbed on to their chests. They are proving less than effective because of it. They have been spoilt by the delivery of Cousins and Judd.

The club has been investigated by the league and put on notice. It remains a sniff away from a sanction. The club has been set upon and thus feels set apart, victimised by the authorities and splintered within.

Contrast Sydney. Nick Davis cannot get a game because he does not follow the club disciplines. Until he does coach Paul Roos said he would not be selected. It bolsters confidence within the team and rewards those players who make the sacrifices. There are no compromises, no-one forgiven no matter how talented. Young blood like Jarred Moore, Kieren Jack and Ed Barlow have almost been smuggled into the side. The Swans have won three games this season, West Coast has lost three.

It is why Roos stared Hall in the eyes at half-time on Saturday night. In a split of a second Hall may have done six weeks of damage. That is selfish and unforgivable. Sydney indulges no-one, no matter their status or skill. And that is why a once great rival has become a rabble.

 

[Ancient and Loyal]

It may not be west of the south side of the harbour, but it is west of the north side of the harbour. I'm sure all of us who have disputed the location of Pennant Hills can agree that it isn't in walking distance of the beach.

Neither's Hornsby, St Ives or Chatswood...

 

[jackmac7]

370 primary school teams up from 24 three years ago is the big one that will have the AFL feeling all warm and fuzzy. It's only going to get bigger going on that percentage increase. Thats the future right there for AFL in Sydney. Auskick is the NRL's biggest fear.

Good to see a change in junior Auskick teams going to 12 per team which means more teams, more oppurtunity on the ground to get more of the footy and less congestion. West Sydney could produce some stars from junior development out there.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Neither's Hornsby, St Ives or Chatswood...

I don't know enough of local Sydney geography to contribute an opinion on whats West and what's not, but for our purposes, this counts for something -
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...-western-sydney/2008/04/13/1208024992661.html

AFL ups the ante in western Sydney

Jacquelin Magnay, SMH, April 14, 2008

AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou said he was prepared to double the amount of money being thrown at western Sydney to establish a second successful team in the city, with the more affluent areas of the north-western suburbs firmly in his sights.

As the battle for the hearts and minds of sporting parents in the west intensifies, Demetriou told the ABC Offsiders program yesterday that even the naming of the second AFL team would be in the hands of the Sydney market, to encourage a sense of ownership. But he conceded the next six months was critical to the AFL's plans.

... Demetriou also revealed the AFL was not only targeting the west of Sydney but also the north-west, with the new name to reflect that.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Demetriou also revealed the AFL was not only targeting the west of Sydney but also the north-west

And this is all the Hills suburbs and those around them which was mentioned in another thread on the Expansion Board. Ie Castle Hill, Seven Hills, Winston Hills, West Pennant Hills and Baulkham Hills in the Baulkham Hills council and then all the suburbs in the Hornsby council which includes Pennant Hills. From the last census Hornsby council has 150,000 people.
2006 Census QuickStats : Hornsby (A) (Local Government Area)

The AFL might also target those in the Ryde city council as the Olympic stadium is closer to them than the SCG.

There is this phobia in Sydney about "Westies". The locals only consider people from the west if they are south of the Parramatta river. People north of the river don't like to be consider as from the west. When I tire of this meaningless debate to put people in boxes, I tell people that if you live west of the Sydney GPO then you are a westie, doesn't matter how far north that line goes. I usually get an unfavourable look from those who live west of that line but not in the traditional west.

 

[genghiskhan]

It may not be west of the south side of the harbour, but it is west of the north side of the harbour. I'm sure all of us who have disputed the location of Pennant Hills can agree that it isn't in walking distance of the beach.

I don't know enough of local Sydney geography to contribute an opinion on whats West and what's not, but for our purposes, this counts for something -
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...-western-sydney/2008/04/13/1208024992661.html

What are they going to call them? The Non-eastern suburbs Wolves?

It is true that "westies" is used to refer to people west of the city on the south side of the harbour and Parramatta River. It is also true that most regions using nth, south, east, west use one geographic point as a point of reference, and that point is the CBD. So, although Pennant Hills is west of Nth Sydney CBD, it is north West of Sydney CBD.

The most important thing is to refer to a place that can be used to form the club's image, much like Fremantle has done. People support Fremantle even though they don't live in the Fremantle region.

There are a lot of hard-working tradesmen in the Pennant Hills district and they seem to have an ideology that is more sympathetic to Westies that those who live on the north shore or south shores. I think they would support a club using a name associated with westies.

In fact, if there wasn't a rugby league team by the same name, I don't think it would be a bad idea referring to them as Parramatta.

 

[Professor Knowall]

What are they going to call them? The Non-eastern suburbs Wolves?

It is true that "westies" is used to refer to people west of the city on the south side of the harbour and Parramatta River. It is also true that most regions using nth, south, east, west use one geographic point as a point of reference, and that point is the CBD. So, although Pennant Hills is west of Nth Sydney CBD, it is north West of Sydney CBD. .

Thanks for that. Is it also true to say (if I'm following other points in this thread correctly), that the Parramatta River also forms some sort of demographic boundary, with the NW generally being more prosperous than the "Westies" south of the river, thus forming a point of difference other then just being on a different side of the river?

... The most important thing is to refer to a place that can be used to form the club's image, much like Fremantle has done. People support Fremantle even though they don't live in the Fremantle region. ...

Yes, I totally agree - but how can the North West be tied in with the traditional "Westies"?

...There are a lot of hard-working tradesmen in the Pennant Hills district and they seem to have an ideology that is more sympathetic to Westies that those who live on the north shore or south shores. I think they would support a club using a name associated with westies. ....

OK - that goes a way to answering my previous question. I'm guessing here that the Pennant Hills district has a lot of 'nouveau riche' who perhaps have family roots (parents or grandparents) from the traditional "westie" area" Reasonable to assume? Or at least share some common values, as genghiskhan states.

What are they going to call them? How are they going to market this team to cover both the "Westies" and "Northwest"? No brain waves have come to me yet on this (despite my moniker). This is probably better answered by the locals there.

 

[jpdixon]

The Hills area is an obvious place to look for fans, even though they don't tend to identify with "West Sydney". That's why the team should be called Cumberland (Cumberland Emus would be good). That seems to be in line with what Demetriou's been saying.

 

[Holding The Ball]

Well done Patrick Smith. Apparently everyone that lives in Sydney is some sort of neanderthal who likes seeing people bashed.

Barry Hall's punch wasn't "biff" — it was a cowardly king-hit that would see a sending off and a long suspension in League.

 

[genghiskhan]

Thanks for that. Is it also true to say (if I'm following other points in this thread correctly), that the Parramatta River also forms some sort of demographic boundary, with the NW generally being more prosperous than the "Westies" south of the river, thus forming a point of difference other then just being on a different side of the river?
Yes, I totally agree - but how can the North West be tied in with the traditional "Westies"?

OK - that goes a way to answering my previous question. I'm guessing here that the Pennant Hills district has a lot of 'nouveau riche' who perhaps have family roots (parents or grandparents) from the traditional "westie" area" Reasonable to assume? Or at least share some common values, as genghiskhan states.

What are they going to call them? How are they going to market this team to cover both the "Westies" and "Northwest"? No brain waves have come to me yet on this (despite my moniker). This is probably better answered by the locals there.

Defining demographic differences is very difficult in Sydney. If you sat on a train from north Sydney to Penrith, you see differences along the way. North Sydney seems very white and pretentious. Most people wear good clothes. Then you get to the city and all these Asians will get on the train. Then as you start heading out west you start seeing people with beanies pulled down over their eyes.

Census statistics don't always match these observations though. About ten years ago I had a look at population distribution and saw that Kilara (north Sydney) had a very large population of Chinese, but they don't really seem to be out and about. West Sydney also had some high income areas. For example, Strathfield was like an island that had an average income similar to the eastern suburbs.

I think one of the best hopes to unite the region is to champion the region. Most official celebrations are on the harbour, or the beach. The club would need to push an alternative ideology that shows there are decent things out west. So instead of sending players on a promotional climb of the harbour bridge, you send them on a dragon boat race along the Parramatta River.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Don't worry about Patrick Smith. He's only with The Australian, which no-one in Melbourne reads, because neitherof the major dailies, HUN and The Age (who sacked him some years back) would employ that wannabe headline grabbing dill.