How will history remember Selwood & Pendlebury?

[marcus1232]

Both deadset superstars

 

[Mr Lizard]

Are you making up things again?

I haven't made anything up. You are an obfuscator.

Look at his footwork in that gif, he's clearly taken a dive. The arms out "what about my free kick?" to two different umpires isn't under dispute, I'd hope.

 

[nahnah]

And I don't think Cameron Ling is overly celebrated for that. Do you?

Maybe for being a premiership captain and brilliant leader of men, and someone who could stop his man and also get 30 touches and kick goals himself. Maybe Greenwood will get there too, I don't know.

I do yeah, I think he was the best tagger I've seen

 

[CaptainHowdy87]

Yeah it's technically legal, but you just don't see bumps dished out when metres away from the play these days.

Anyone can reduce themselves to that level, it's really nothing to be proud of or celebrate, but hopefully we do give you some of the same back next time around.

See how precious Pendles likes being put on his arse repeatedly.

I seem to recall Pendles copping a hard tag from Lingy every time we played back in the day. Also copped plenty of little punches to the guts from Lingy too.

 

[CaptainHowdy87]

Apt username, inline with your footy intellect

Refute any of the points he made.

 

[Stefan_Carey]

I don't think Greenwood should be overly celebrated for being a footballer whose claim to fame is stopping someone else from doing their thing.

Don't care too much if you don't agree.

Why not? He stopped a champion player, the media is always stoking his flames when he "carries his team over the line in the last quarter" since he is apparently the only Cat that wants to win. I think a lot of people have put across their opinion that they don't think Selwood should be overly celebrated for being a footballer whose claim to fame is ducking. Even if it is technically legal.

This isn't directed at the quoted poster - just a general question for all the duck accusers - Why hasn't Selwood's free-for stat changed since the Selwood rule was introduced? He still averages basically the exact same as pre-rule change.

 

[Helfarch]

This isn't directed at the quoted poster - just a general question for all the duck accusers - Why hasn't Selwood's free-for stat changed since the Selwood rule was introduced? He still averages basically the exact same as pre-rule change.

Umpires make poor life choices

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I haven't made anything up. You are an obfuscator.

Look at his footwork in that gif, he's clearly taken a dive. The arms out "what about my free kick?" to two different umpires isn't under dispute, I'd hope.

You made up the bit about Selwood giving Pendlebury a spray and refusing an offered handshake, remember?

So he took a dive, in that gif? That's your confirmed stated opinion?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I've been stewing on this question a while and funnily enough Robbo just mentioned this exact point on 360 - will these two be remembered as highly for not winning a Brownlow?

Both have arguably been in the top five midfielders in the league for the better part of a decade and if you went back to the start of this decade, many would have predicted a Brownlow for both was inevitable. It seems unlikely that either will win one from here, as Collingwood are unlikely to win enough games over the next few years and whilst Geelong remain good enough for now, Dangerfield will likely be the Cats' best chance.

In terms of pure stats, Selwood currently sits 15th in all time votes and averages 0.82 votes a game and Pendlebury is 25th, with 0.68 votes a game. To put it into perspective, the only players with either more total votes (or slightly less) and no Brownlow are Matthews, Harvey, West, Wilson, Bartlett, Scott Thompson, Bradley & Reiwoldt. What's interesting though is that none of these players come close to the average Brownlow votes per game as either Selwood or Pendlebury.

What these votes show us is that both players have shown elite longevity and yet the Brownlow does not reward such a concept and can simply be won on the back one elite year, of which neither Selwood or Pendlebury have proven to be good enough at this point. Selwood has come closest in 2013 where he missed out by a single vote to Ablett, whereas Pendlebury managed fourth in 2010 but was still 9 away from Judd. The other major individual award is the MVP and neither player have managed to come close to winning that, which further points to the idea that neither have ever been the best player in the league at any one time.

So, does the view on these players come down to how you look at the Brownlow as an individual award and what weight it has on a player's career? I would argue not in normal circumstances but when you are comparing the elites, there are often few variables to differentiate between who was better. In this case, does no Brownlow on their CV's stop these two from being labelled the best of the best and simply great players of their generation, in the same vein as guys like Hayes, West and Harvey? Or, conversely, are these two good enough (and have done enough) to break into the category of all time greats, despite no Bronwlow, ala Carey, Ablett, Matthews, Bartlett (although I'm certainly not saying they are as a good a player)?

After typing that first sentence, you should have stopped, read it back to yourself, and realised that if Robbo asked the same thing, it's probably a stupid question.
*delete, delete, delete*

 

[West123]

The Brownlow. The most irrelevant "award" in football. Judged by wannabes not good enough to play the game at the highest level.

What about Jordan Bannister's votes? Do they count?

 

[Rod Stroker]

What about Jordan Bannister's votes? Do they count?

He got moved on by 2 clubs. And both convicted of cheating. So no.

 

[Mr Lizard]

You made up the bit about Selwood giving Pendlebury a spray and refusing an offered handshake, remember?

So he took a dive, in that gif? That's your confirmed stated opinion?

I never said he refused a handshake, that's you making things up. I said he gave a petulant spray, he described it as taking his frustration out. Potato, potato.

Yes, looking at his footwork in the gif from the previous page, he has clearly taken a dive...he then clearly pleads for the free kick. Very much in line with public perception of him, he plays for the free and then has a whinge...hence 'Duckwood' and 'Sookwood' being littered through this thread.


If you are going to reply, perhaps you'll give us your "confirmed stated opinion" on how he isn't diving in that gif, rather than a tedious, fisked critique on your impressions of my mental stability, or further erroneous accusations of invention. The topic of the thread, after all, is how history will remember Selwood & Pendlebury.

 

[Rockford]

I never said he refused a handshake, that's you making things up. I said he gave a petulant spray, he described it as taking his frustration out. Potato, potato.

Yes, looking at his footwork in the gif from the previous page, he has clearly taken a dive...he then clearly pleads for the free kick. Very much in line with public perception of him, he plays for the free and then has a whinge...hence 'Duckwood' and 'Sookwood' being littered through this thread.


If you are going to reply, perhaps you'll give us your "confirmed stated opinion" on how he isn't diving in that gif, rather than a tedious, fisked critique on your impressions of my mental stability, or further erroneous accusations of invention. The topic of the thread, after all, is how history will remember Selwood & Pendlebury.

Trolling is typically an indicator that the troll is angry. Anger, as an emotion, stems predominantly from fear or pain. It's not hard to understand that the Geelong Football Club and Selwood have caused you a great deal of both fear and pain, and I apologise on the club's and Joel's behalf. I hope you, in time, are able to move on and lead a more fruitful existence.

You are applying the same burden of proof on LLC that religion demands of atheists: prove he didn't dive is akin to saying prove that God _isn't_ real. The burden of proof lies with you and your "evidence" is deficient. If you can't see that your evidence is deficient then, perhaps, your reasoning skills are deficient. To me your gif shows a player caught off guard and off balance attempting to regain their footing. If you've ever played any contact sport you may have had the same experience. Selwood, legitimately, then appeals for what he believes, rightly or wrongly, should have been free kick. To continue to present the gif as "evidence" of your claims is only evidence of just how much fear and pain Joel Selwood has caused you.

I hope that this response is comprehensive enough for you and addresses your concerns.

 

[Sando22]

Will be rightfully remembered as absolute stars of the game and legends of their clubs

 

[Mr Lizard]

Trolling is typically an indicator that the troll is angry. Anger, as an emotion, stems predominantly from fear or pain. It's not hard to understand that the Geelong Football Club and Selwood have caused you a great deal of both fear and pain, and I apologise on the club's and Joel's behalf. I hope you, in time, are able to move on and lead a more fruitful existence.

You are applying the same burden of proof on LLC that religion demands of atheists: prove he didn't dive is akin to saying prove that God _isn't_ real. The burden of proof lies with you and your "evidence" is deficient. If you can't see that your evidence is deficient then, perhaps, your reasoning skills are deficient. To me your gif shows a player caught off guard and off balance attempting to regain their footing. If you've ever played any contact sport you may have had the same experience. Selwood, legitimately, then appeals for what he believes, rightly or wrongly, should have been free kick. To continue to present the gif as "evidence" of your claims is only evidence of just how much fear and pain Joel Selwood has caused you.

I hope that this response is comprehensive enough for you and addresses your concerns.

I'm putting no burden of proof on LLD, merely asking for his (as he worded it) "confirmed stated opinion" should he choose to reply.

That gif, like the Zapruder film, like any footage, is evidence. I'd say your judgement of what that gif shows is deficient, as is your attempt at argument.

We do agree that Selwood appeals for a free kick.

Thank you for elucidating your concern over my mental and emotional health, I'll take it into consideration.

 

[Rockford]

I'm putting no burden of proof on LLD, merely asking for his (as he worded it) "confirmed stated opinion" should he choose to reply.

That gif, like the Zapruder film, like any footage, is evidence. I'd say your judgement of what that gif shows is deficient, as is your attempt at argument.

We do agree that Selwood appeals for a free kick.

Thank you for elucidating your concern over my mental and emotional health, I'll take it into consideration.

It's the conclusion you derive from the evidence that is deficient. It's not evidence of what you're claiming, I will disagree with your assessment as you're free to disagree with mine; I think it would be clear to most what your true motivation is with repeating the argument ad nauseam. I'm not one to experience schadenfreude but I'm sure there are many reveling in the pain that is apparent when reading between the lines. The Hawks will improve, there will be other drafts. Don't do anything silly in the meantime.

 

[Mr Lizard]

It's the conclusion you derive from the evidence that is deficient

Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Greenwood comes at Selwood from the front and to the right. The counter force Selwood needs to brace against this requires his left leg to go back and to the left.

You claim that Selwood is attempting to regain his footing, I claim that Selwood's "footing" shows him taking a dive. He lifts his left foot and then gives a dainty little kick up with his right. He also reaches out with his left hand to grab a piece of Levi's jumper in an attempt to bring Greenwood down with/on top of him, thereby accentuating his claim for a free kick, but doesn't get any purchase.

Perhaps you are claiming that Selwood is like the flying nun, with Levi the big gust of wind that has swept him off his feet. I give Selwood more credit.

I realise the explanation can become tedious, but I feel it necessary where what you describe plainly doesn't match reality.

I'd be interested to know your thoughts on Cat supporters' motivations in repeatedly straying off-topic to 'play the man' here, but that is probably best left out of the thread.

 

[Rockford]

I claim that Selwood's "footing" shows him taking a dive.

Yes, we know. You've mentioned it more than once but failed to provide anything conclusive that supports your claim. There's no explanation, just a repeat of your claim, and yes, it is tedious. You feel it necessary in an effort to denigrate a player and club that causes you anxiety and pain. It's understandable and I support your actions if it's going to help you work through that hurt. Be conscious that your behaviour is not cyclical though and merely feeding that pain. I am concerned this is the case given the repetitive nature of your posting.

I'd be interested to know your thoughts on Cat supporters' motivations in repeatedly straying off-topic to 'play the man' here, but that is probably best left out of the thread.

There's no straying off-topic. Reading comprehension requires us to question an author's motives and mindset when engaging with what they've written. I'm responding directly to those motives and mindset.

 

[Mr Lizard]

Reading comprehension.

You should try reading my previous post again, wherein I give explanation.

Please, don't reply. Your inaccuracy is tedious.

 

[robertg22]

I think this thread has run its race..

 

[The Filth]

Pendlebury and Selwood will be remembered as great players who played in teams that managed to lose to Carlton and the Gold Coast Suns respectively

 

[Aramis]

I've been stewing on this question a while and funnily enough Robbo just mentioned this exact point on 360 - will these two be remembered as highly for not winning a Brownlow?

Both have arguably been in the top five midfielders in the league for the better part of a decade and if you went back to the start of this decade, many would have predicted a Brownlow for both was inevitable. It seems unlikely that either will win one from here, as Collingwood are unlikely to win enough games over the next few years and whilst Geelong remain good enough for now, Dangerfield will likely be the Cats' best chance.

In terms of pure stats, Selwood currently sits 15th in all time votes and averages 0.82 votes a game and Pendlebury is 25th, with 0.68 votes a game. To put it into perspective, the only players with either more total votes (or slightly less) and no Brownlow are Matthews, Harvey, West, Wilson, Bartlett, Scott Thompson, Bradley & Reiwoldt. What's interesting though is that none of these players come close to the average Brownlow votes per game as either Selwood or Pendlebury.

What these votes show us is that both players have shown elite longevity and yet the Brownlow does not reward such a concept and can simply be won on the back one elite year, of which neither Selwood or Pendlebury have proven to be good enough at this point. Selwood has come closest in 2013 where he missed out by a single vote to Ablett, whereas Pendlebury managed fourth in 2010 but was still 9 away from Judd. The other major individual award is the MVP and neither player have managed to come close to winning that, which further points to the idea that neither have ever been the best player in the league at any one time.

So, does the view on these players come down to how you look at the Brownlow as an individual award and what weight it has on a player's career? I would argue not in normal circumstances but when you are comparing the elites, there are often few variables to differentiate between who was better. In this case, does no Brownlow on their CV's stop these two from being labelled the best of the best and simply great players of their generation, in the same vein as guys like Hayes, West and Harvey? Or, conversely, are these two good enough (and have done enough) to break into the category of all time greats, despite no Bronwlow, ala Carey, Ablett, Matthews, Bartlett (although I'm certainly not saying they are as a good a player)?

Reckon Tom Well's is better than both tbh.

 

[HaroLad]

Why did you bump this?

Whhhyyyyyy

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Why did you bump this?

Whhhyyyyyy

Hawthorn get embarrassed AGAIN so someone goes searching for Cats threads.
Seems it's a weekly tradition at the moment.

 

[The Filth]

Shut the thread down again please.