I am losing my love of football

[Underdog]

So you are insinuating the VFL plays like an AFL-lite because it is full of reserves sides?

Get stuffed, how many games have you seen recently?

That's really not what I'm suggesting, that was the suggestion of the post I was responding too who were probably referring to the VFL. I'm saying they don't play like the AFL and I can only speak from a WAFL perspective. I said that it could be attributed to the reserves sides if that's the case in the VFL. You disagree with the premise the VFL is the AFL-lite, that's fine, I wasn't saying it was, the other poster was.

We basically have the same view here

 

[icee]

Dude, I reckon you're talking like a young person, new to the game and not too aware of the history of the game.

A statement like "the game is so much better than it's ever been" is one that I'd expect to come from a RL convert as it's closer to what they are familiar with.

RL admin and it's coaches ****** with the rules of their game (10 metres, ball thrown behind the second rowers legs, tackle counts etc) to create more scoreboard movement. We're going the other way. If we keep on this trajectory there will be more points scored in RL than our game.

Ummm no man. I have been watching rules for a long time.


I think you found an opportunity to a) have a go at a swans fan in that typical victorian arrogance of "your a sydney supporter wadda you know" b) have a go at NRL.

The game is so much better than it was..its just over anaylised and filled with a lot of people who have no right being in the jobs they are.

And theres a strong correlation between those people bitching about the game being better when their side was winning flags and their team being really shit these days.

TBH a few weeks ago when were losing the game looked shit..we won in a good manner on the weekend and the game suddenly looks good again. Its all emotional and very subjective.

 

[moistie]

150% than:

a) watching a team keep walking through the goals to deny team b a scoring chance..yeah awesome.

b) the 2013 grand final.

Your team played in 2 horror grand finals that only serve any purpose to hawk fans.

You honestly think 2008 was a good game? FFS 2008 your midget coach took winning at all costs to a stupid level. I man this was the year that the midge stacked his defensive 50 to deny a forward his 100 goals.

2005/06 was just a coach using his cattle to the best he could and creating a game plan around them. In fact thats ****en genius..more genius than exploiting a rule and walking the ball over for a behind to deny the team any chance at scoring..argh the sooner we forgot about 2008 the better.

Did I say 2008 was a better game? I disputed the statement that 2005/2006 were games to highlight as being better than the 80s and 90s. Both those games were a slog. I'm sure it was exciting if you support West Coast, Sydney or a rugby code but I'd prefer to watch paint dry.

 

[West123]

I like watching footy.

 

[Franc de Borges]

Well it's always been like this. In the VFL days there was a gap between Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon & Carlton and the rest of the comp that was immense. That's why teams like the Saints & WB have only one flag from those days, Geelong only won 6, and why Fitzroy went under. The reason these clubs ruled the code was money, they could buy the best players.

In the modern era a gap has opened up again, and this time it's got to do with footy dept spending, expansion causing a compromised draft for a few years, and some clubs doing a really poor job at running their club financially, and developing the players they have.

And no doubt, in 20 years time there'll be people complaining about the gap between the top clubs and the rest, based on similar or other reasons. The AFL seems committed to equalisation measures, so I think we have to wait and see what happens, rather than giving up.

I agree with all this, but the fact that we now have six more teams than we had then means that there are three mores games a week that mean bugger all.

There used to be six games on a Saturday and by your rationale at least two and probably three or more were of high importance.

The only game that meant anything for the neutral fan last weekend was Geelong and Hawthorn.

Add that to the fact that the league now caters for the game to be viewed from home as opposed to a home ground, and it's not hard to see why people are non-plussed.

 

[Riccardo11]

Well yeah I agree with that. But if defenders start shutting Messi down, soccer fans don't beg for goalkeepers to be removed so we can have more 10-9 margins in El Classico.

Football and AFL are different games. The tactics of football are traditionally more intricate and one or two goals decide a game. AFL has always been exciting in the high mark, the long kick and the mad dash down the center of the field. That's where I get my kicks in AFL - the rolling scrums and tight packs are great in the Rugby codes, but AFL has overly tactic-ed (not a word, I know) itself to the point where teams are to afraid to cut loose for fear they will lose.

The same things I love about Union make me cringe in Aussie Rules, it's just the traditional way the game is played has been lost.

 

[Franc de Borges]

I watch old games and seriously cant believe how many plodders and over weight men played the game. I watched one old game from 71 and this one player for the saints couldnt even kick a punt..every kick he had was sideways which then put the player he was kicking it to in unnecessary pressure.

And this was suppose to be the elite premier comp. Then i watch some old SANFL and WAFL and cant believe how slick the players are and how skillfull.

VFL in the 70s was horrible to watch and i would call elbows and hits from behind tough and uncompromising. As we are finding out with so many "blokes" from the 70s..most of them are failing health wise with a lot of them suffering a lot of trauma from unnecessary head knocks and stray elbows to the head.

You might find that the attractive games were played on grounds that weren't bogged by torrential rain (i.e Victoria).

 

[icee]

Did I say 2008 was a better game? I disputed the statement that 2005/2006 were games to highlight as being better than the 80s and 90s. Both those games were a slog. I'm sure it was exciting if you support West Coast, Sydney or a rugby code but I'd prefer to watch paint dry.

2005/06 seem to rate highly my man.

AFL fans have mental issues, when the game is played in a free flowing manner then people botch that its basketball crap and they chrun for the old days of contested tough footy. Then tough contested one on one style of footy happens and people bitch about it being a snore fest.

Its always the older fans as well..always wanting the code to look like the one they remember when they were a 6 year old. Its like the whole "things were better when i was a kid" thing that gets thrown around by older people. No they wernt you just grew up.

Those games you hate have a lot of merit and were tough.

Your POV is clearly subjective as i cannot take a hwk fan serious when they try to diss the swans. I am sorry but the fact your fanbase acted like arrogant flogs has voided any valid critcism you have on the swans. To us swans fans it just looks like another hurt hawk fan.

 

[icee]

You might find that the attractive games were played on grounds that weren't bogged by torrential rain (i.e Victoria).

The game i was talking about was played in a good ground with no rain nor mud.

 

[Cosmic Energy]

I thought they changed this rule a few years ago, that dropping the ball when tackled is no longer a free kick, it's play on. I hate the holding the ball when players pile on top. Should be a ball up.

There's never been a "dropping the ball" rule as such, but with any prior opportunity you should at least have to get a handball in or foot to the ball. Even if it spills out from a tackle, give a free for that and it could break the mauls up.

 

[nineteen eighty]

I have two main issues with the game today although I enjoy it now as much as I used to. The reason we are so critical is that we are exposed to it a lot more than what we used to be.

1. I love man on man contests. Silvagni / Martin / Langford etc... v Dunstall / Lockett etc.. What about Jackovich on Carey. What about Flower v Greigg. I can spend days listing them all out. All those classic onballer contests. They have largely disappeared as no-one actually plays a spot on the ground any more. They play as a deep forward v a high forward or a mid etc..
2. The rolling maul at times kills me. I still to this day talk about a Swans v Saints game I went to at Etihad quite a few years back. As a neutral supporter I was deadest bored shitless for the first half as the game went from one ball up to another. Just over and over for the entire half. The second half opened up thankfully.

 

[blue healer]

Ummm no man. I have been watching rules for a long time.


I think you found an opportunity to a) have a go at a swans fan in that typical victorian arrogance of "your a sydney supporter wadda you know" b) have a go at NRL.

The game is so much better than it was..its just over anaylised and filled with a lot of people who have no right being in the jobs they are.

And theres a strong correlation between those people bitching about the game being better when their side was winning flags and their team being really shit these days.

TBH a few weeks ago when were losing the game looked shit..we won in a good manner on the weekend and the game suddenly looks good again. Its all emotional and very subjective.

The quality of football that I'm commenting on has SFA with over analysis by people who have no right to be in their jobs. I don't give a shit who gets paid what to comment on the game and, as a result, take no notice of them.

My criticism of the game has nothing to do with my emotive state or the quality of my teams performance. Carlton have been playing shit football but I reckon there was a distinct improvement last game, in fact I was a bit chuffed. But this doesn't change my view that much of what is being dished up is at least 2 shades of crap and the game, overall is not the spectacle that I am accustomed to.

I turn too many games off at half time to say all's good with the game just because my team looked all right on Sunday.

 

[Bleeeeeeeeep]

ZONES coming to your AFL game some time soon!!!
Breaking the ground up into zones and having a minium amount of players will be discussed.
It is happening in junior footy for the reason that all the kids followed the ball around (sound familiar).

 

[Sebastian Balboa]

I am losing my love of talk back radio.

You need to go to the footy then.

 

[Franc de Borges]

Well yeah I agree with that. But if defenders start shutting Messi down, soccer fans don't beg for goalkeepers to be removed so we can have more 10-9 margins in El Classico.

1. Soccer is traditionally low scoring
2. The reach of soccer is so vast that you get variations in cultural style from one country to the next; Brazil and Italy have hugely contrasting ideologies. We only have one major league
3. The very nature of soccer is defensive. Teams set up on opposing sides and defend "their goal". In our game "our goal" is the one we're attacking

The main issue is that our game is evolving at such a rapid rate that it's difficult to pinpoint what it actually stands for. You can watch Brazil in 1970 and be confident that they'd beat most sides today (notwithstanding fitness and conditioning).

You could never say that about a football team, even from a decade ago.

The open expanses and lack of strict positioning mean that football was built on the idea that scoring was paramount. That idea is being eroded.

 

[icee]

The quality of football that I'm commenting on has SFA with over analysis by people who have no right to be in their jobs. I don't give a shit who gets paid what to comment on the game and, as a result, take no notice of them.

My criticism of the game has nothing to do with my emotive state or the quality of my teams performance. Carlton have been playing shit football but I reckon there was a distinct improvement last game, in fact I was a bit chuffed. But this doesn't change my view that much of what is being dished up is at least 2 shades of crap and the game, overall is not the spectacle that I am accustomed to.

I turn too many games off at half time to say all's good with the game just because my team looked all right on Sunday.

If the blues were on the verge of winning a flag or had just won the flag i am 100% sure you wouldnt be having those thoughts. You know carlton have no chance at a flag in the next few years so you are depressed and projecting it to all games.

Sorry but i dont see the same thoughts from many hawk fans i come across. Dont underestimate how much your hate of the game at present is a direct correlation of your club being no chance for a flag for a few years.

 

[Franc de Borges]

The game i was talking about was played in a good ground with no rain nor mud.

So you viewed one old game and decided that the rest were all the same?

 

[icee]

So you viewed one old game and decided that the rest were all the same?

I can post many more bad games played on good ground if you want? The only real year that VFL was played on nothing but bog grounds was 1977 when it was a record for rain fall in victoria. Sydney has more rain than melb.

 

[Franc de Borges]

I can post many more bad games played on good ground if you want? The only real year that VFL was played on nothing but bog grounds was 1977 when it was a record for rain fall in victoria. Sydney has more rain than melb.

That has nothing to do with the state of Victorian grounds in the 70's and 80's as compared with WA and SA. Sydney didn't have a team then, let alone a major league worth mentioning.

 

[icee]

That has nothing to do with the state of Victorian grounds in the 70's and 80's as compared with WA and SA. Sydney didn't have a team then, let alone a major league worth mentioning.

I dont know what you are even going on about tbh. When carlton start winning a lot of games and are a genuine threat for the flag I am 100% sure footy to you will becoming awesome.

Ahh emotional subjective footy fans.

 

[JackFlash]

The AFL have gone for Quantity over Quality, Monday's game proved that we have 4 maybe 5 teams not really much better than VFL standard. The AFL have made their bed, but the fans are still staying away. Geelong and Hawthorn can't play each other every second week. We're two teams top heavy in this comp. My guess is the AFL want more at some point. I still like the game, i fell out of love a long time ago.

 

[Franc de Borges]

I dont know what you are even going on about tbh. When carlton start winning a lot of games and are a genuine threat for the flag I am 100% sure footy to you will becoming awesome.

Ahh emotional subjective footy fans.

What are you on about? I had a great weekend and went to two games.

You're saying that WAFL and SANFL footy was more skilful than the VFL, and I'm telling you that the state of the grounds would have a large bearing on that, particularly in players' formative years when skills are learned.

 

[blaze036]

Are there any stats that back up ratings are down this year?

I think the Essendon drug saga has hurt the game in the short term more than anything by an absolute mile.

 

[icee]

What are you on about? I had a great weekend and went to two games.

You're saying that WAFL and SANFL footy was more skilful than the VFL, and I'm telling you that the state of the grounds would have a large bearing on that, particularly in players' formative years when skills are learned.

There have been plenty of years where the grounds have been good and on par with those in Adelaide and Perth. The game style was kick it long at any cost..that was the tactic rain hail or shine.

WAFL used to run a lot more and carry the ball..where the instruction in the VFL was pick it up and kick it long up field and hope the player that just stood on that patch all day could mark it and then bomb it long again. Shit game style shit everything.

 

[Franc de Borges]

There have been plenty of years where the grounds have been good and on par with those in Adelaide and Perth. The game style was kick it long at any cost..that was the tactic rain hail or shine.

WAFL used to run a lot more and carry the ball..where the instruction in the VFL was pick it up and kick it long up field and hope the player that just stood on that patch all day could mark it and then bomb it long again. Shit game style shit everything.

So you see no correlation between style of play (contested ball as opposed to skill) and the general winter conditions in the respective states?

So one dry week in the VFL means that players should have changed what they'd been doing for decades? All the things you were taught were of most importance suddenly change when it's sunny?

It's no coincidence that skills have vastly improved as the surfaces have.

You haven't thought this through.