I know it's been done to death but......

[The Rusty Trombone]

Amazingly enough, it's not everyone's role in the team to average 30 touches and 4 goals a game. There's a reason why guys like Jackson, King and Houli get games each week. Players have different roles and KPI's that they aim for each game.

To the average eye they might seem crap and useless because they aren't setting their fantasy team on fire but that shit doesn't matter to a coach. Now I'm not saying they're super stars at their role but they do it to standard that at the moment no replacement is capable of, hence them getting the game time and not someone else.

To say that he gets favoured for games because we can milk a few more memberships out of him is an insult to not only Houli but also the club.

Good post

 

[DrMike]

I did not state that he was put on our list to take advantage of his ethnic background, however, the club did get mileage out of the exposure they were given and I believed that BMs interpretations was that the club may be giving him a favour when including in the 22. No more than that. You are trying to make more of this than there really is. Get back on topic as I will not make further comment on the Houli gimmick issue.. it is blown out proportion. BM used the word gimmick lets hang him!

That's called marketing, completely different. It's the same as putting Cotchin's face on hand lotion or tissues, it brings money to the club. The difference is with marketing it's using the tools at your disposal, that we have someone with Houli's background means the club can invest into that cultural area. To say Houli only gets a game because of it is laughable, you get more people to games by winning, to win you put your best available players on the ground, that includes Houli.

 

[DrMike]

Also Rustof I've missed you

 

[sregit]

That's called marketing, completely different. It's the same as putting Cotchin's face on hand lotion or tissues, it brings money to the club. The difference is with marketing it's using the tools at your disposal, that we have someone with Houli's background means the club can invest into that cultural area. To say Houli only gets a game because of it is laughable, you get more people to games by winning, to win you put your best available players on the ground, that includes Houli.

I do not disagree with what you have to say here. I just stated that I thought once BM clarified his statement I could see where he was coming from. I do actually think Houli is in our top 22, however, IMO just. I think he is fringe line but it just opinion and I believe that was all BM was trying to infer. However he was hammered. Everything stated here relating to marketing is spot on. houli 's ability we can debate until the cows come. It is opinion only and we would probably differ on many players. Sensible post.

 

[Rustof]

Also Rustof I've missed you

I haven't quite recovered from Cotchin's captaincy announcement... Still quite stiff in the pants department.

 

[DrMike]

I do not disagree with what you have to say here. I just stated that I thought once BM clarified his statement I could see where he was coming from. I do actually think Houli is in our top 22, however, IMO just. I think he is fringe line but it just opinion and I believe that was all BM was trying to infer. However he was hammered. Everything stated here relating to marketing is spot on. houli 's ability we can debate until the cows come. It is opinion only and we would probably differ on many players. Sensible post.

According to this the club rates Houli top 10 at the club (edit: in 2012):
1st Trent Cotchin 296 votes (Jack Dyer Medal winner)
2nd Brett Deledio 263 (Jack Titus Medal winner)
3rd Ivan Maric 248 (Maurie Fleming Medal winner)
4th Shane Tuck 207 (Fred Swift Medal winner)
5th Shaun Grigg 198 (Kevin Bartlett Medal winner)
6th Alex Rance 192
7th Steven Morris 191
8th Shane Edwards 188
9th Jack Riewoldt 173
Eq. 10th Dustin Martin 170
Eq. 10th Bachar Houli 170

 

[Equus]

People. Keep it civil.

 

[theflea]

he is by far the softest player on our side and his in game vision fails him all the time aka Gold coast game were he didn't man up and allowed hunt to take the chest mark. cant tackle for crap either ..

Backline like this

Griff, Chaplin, Grimes
Morris, Rance, Batchelor and have Vlas on bench to rotate

Houli is depth

this houli softness drives me crazy. imo no way known does he pull out of contests.

 

[theflea]

i just gave you an explanation ? ill copy and paste it for you mate

Sporting clubs do it all the time i am not ripping on Islamic people ( if you think that you delusional ). If you think clubs don't do it your delusional.

For example if there was a average Vietnamese player that played for a club that said club would get a boost of interest for Australian Vietnamese community.

Manchester United did it with the Japanese player the bought ... not an amazing talent but it ment a huge revenue in kit sales with his name/number

Its not my fault you asumed i was being racist when im not

that is a BONUS but NOT why a player goes to/plays for a sporting club. cart before the horse.

 

[Equus]

How the **** did this change from Griffith to Houli bashing?
Quite frankly, calling Bachar a gimmick/marketing tool or whatever is practically a personal attacks on him. Forget Bachar the football player, you've basically reduced him to a gimmick.

 

[sregit]

According to this the club rates Houli top 10 at the club (edit: in 2012):
1st Trent Cotchin 296 votes (Jack Dyer Medal winner)
2nd Brett Deledio 263 (Jack Titus Medal winner)
3rd Ivan Maric 248 (Maurie Fleming Medal winner)
4th Shane Tuck 207 (Fred Swift Medal winner)
5th Shaun Grigg 198 (Kevin Bartlett Medal winner)
6th Alex Rance 192
7th Steven Morris 191
8th Shane Edwards 188
9th Jack Riewoldt 173
Eq. 10th Dustin Martin 170
Eq. 10th Bachar Houli 170

As I stated before this was not a debate about Houli's ability. I acknowledge your opinion and that of the club. I may not agree with you and the club in regards to his ability but that is okay. It is opinion, I was just saying I could see why BM came to the conclusion he had once he had restated his original gimmick comment. Did not feel he needed to be hammered. Can we end this and get back to topic if anyone can remember it.

 

[theflea]

Get off BMs case he clarified his statement and I do not believe his intentions were in anyway racist. I actually agree with him in a very small way. Richmond got a lost of mileage out of the fact Houli was from a Muslim background. The Dogs got mileage out of a Vietnamese footballer. North have had mileage from their Sudanese player even though he has not played senior footy. Clubs do play the ethnic card and BMs comments were that maybe Houli was being played over another player of the same standard because we would be seen to be hypocritical if we didnt play him. He may have case. Houli is just fringe in my opinion also. And I am not a racist.. I do not care what ethnic background a player comes from, just if he good enough and deserves his spot.

no. the argument doesnt wash. clubs employ players and their PRIMARY job is to play.whether the clubs sell/promote those players to fans is SECONDARY only.

 

[theflea]

being a smart man i don't think he would care as long as he gets minutes out on the field,, if he is a marketing puppet or not

do you honestly think we would play a player just as a marketing tool and nothing at all to do with their footy skill?

 

[theflea]

I apologize if the word Gimmick has made people upset !

would Marketing Scheme be a better form of words ?

well no. you could have said coaches pet and it wouldnt have been an issue.

 

[theflea]

There were clubs who didnt draft player solely because of there race .. so why cant you accept that there are some out there that do ?
(not having ago just a question)

rubbish. they wernt drafted bc of their ACTIONS and nothing else.

 

[DrMike]

I suppose we traded for Maric to tap into the Croatian market as well

 

[theflea]

I suppose we traded for Maric to tap into the Croatian market as well

actually the mullet market.

 

[Heisenberg_]

How the **** did this change from Griffith to Houli bashing?
Quite frankly, calling Bachar a gimmick/marketing tool or whatever is practically a personal attacks on him. Forget Bachar the football player, you've basically reduced him to a gimmick.

I know I opened it surprised at how much talk it had generated but then read it and couldn't believe the shit I was reading.

This thread is dangerously close to bring killed off

 

[captain blood 17]

I know I opened it surprised at how much talk it had generated but then read it and couldn't believe the shit I was reading.

This thread is dangerously close to bring killed off

Mate, you should have been here when it took off. At least there was some common sense displayed through it.

 

[nut]

The fact that Houli is a Muslim and is proud of his background is great. The fact that he sees an oppurtunity to bring aswareness to his religion that gets attacked daily in the media is also great. The fact the AFL and our club gives him a voice to better educate people and make them less ignorant on other peoples back ground is also great. Thinking its all just a "gimmick" to get a game is disrespectful, uneducated, ignorant and of course racist. If you still can't see that then you really need to do some reading.
As a club I am proud that we are developing a socially responsable culture. From the way we dealt with personal player issues like Polak and Cousins and how we embrace the Dream time at the ""G" and now allowing Houli to express himself as a muslim and educate people about his culture and beliefs.

Does the club benefit from being socially responsible.... hell yes. Does it make me more confortable buying a membership ... of course.

But that has nothing to with Houli getting a game.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

The fact that Houli is a Muslim and is proud of his background is great. The fact that he sees an oppurtunity to bring aswareness to his religion that gets attacked daily in the media is also great. The fact the AFL and our club gives him a voice to better educate people and make them less ignorant on other peoples back ground is also great. Thinking its all just a "gimmick" to get a game is disrespectful, uneducated, ignorant and of course racist. If you still can't see that then you really need to do some reading.
As a club I am proud that we are developing a socially responsable culture. From the way we dealt with personal player issues like Polak and Cousins and how we embrace the Dream time at the ""G" and now allowing Houli to express himself as a muslim and educate people about his culture and beliefs.

Does the club benefit from being socially responsible.... hell yes. Does it make me more confortable buying a membership ... of course.

But that has nothing to with Houli getting a game.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

For those claiming this wasn't a slag off on Houli, you are kidding yourself.

Birdman has basically said Houli is in our starting 22 ahead of better performing players based upon race alone. This is it, and you cannot hide from it. To say his selection is a marketing gimmick clearly implies its marketing, not performance getting him his selection.

It's insulting to Houli who has performed the role asked from him by the club.

Its insulting to all members of our selection committee that they would put race and $$$ ahead of putting the best 22 on the paddock and going all out for the win.

It's insulting to Hardwick that he would allow marketing to determine the make up of his team

It's insulting to Blair Hartley, who spent months grooming him to come to Richmond, that his work was for a marketing benefit and not to make our team a better performing one.

It's insulting to the b&f voters, because it implies that their decision to vote him in our top ten 2 years running is purely on race. After all, if he's not worthy of being in our first 22 based upon talent and form, how can he possibly finish top 10 two years running in the b&f?

It's insulting to RFC_O, Benny, the trainers, the receptionist, and every other grunt at the club who are currently killing themselves for our next premiership, but apparently are happy to screw this all for a few membership sales to the Muslim community.

This notion is disgusting, shameful, and irrational. And it is racism, you are saying he is getting a gig ahead of better performing white boys based upon race!!!!

And for once and for all, Houli's job is to find space, so he can have the ball fed to him cleanly by our backmen, and then deliver it cleanly to our mids. He can't do this (find space) if he's hard marking his man every 5 minutes. Not every defender has to play like Morris, or the ball would never leave our back half. As one of the other posters said, it's about getting the right balance of role players in our side, and Houli is playing a very specific role.

 

[_Wang_]

The fact that Houli is a Muslim and is proud of his background is great. The fact that he sees an oppurtunity to bring aswareness to his religion that gets attacked daily in the media is also great. The fact the AFL and our club gives him a voice to better educate people and make them less ignorant on other peoples back ground is also great. Thinking its all just a "gimmick" to get a game is disrespectful, uneducated, ignorant and of course racist. If you still can't see that then you really need to do some reading.
As a club I am proud that we are developing a socially responsable culture. From the way we dealt with personal player issues like Polak and Cousins and how we embrace the Dream time at the ""G" and now allowing Houli to express himself as a muslim and educate people about his culture and beliefs.

Does the club benefit from being socially responsible.... hell yes. Does it make me more confortable buying a membership ... of course.

But that has nothing to with Houli getting a game.

Great post Knut..

 

[True Thylacine]

To suggest that the RFC has developed a culture that would see the inclusion in our best team of anyone from any background other than, "that they have earnt that privilege and deserve to be there", can only come from someone who is totally oblivious to WTF has been happening at Punt Rd in recent years. There is NO way Hardwick would play a gay disabled islamic aborigine just for the media value!! Beyond that I am completely nonplussed about some peoples 1940's attitude..still in 2013 almost....which rock have they been under FFS!

 

[TJTIGER]

this houli softness drives me crazy. imo no way known does he pull out of contests.

Good call flea. I've watched Bachar a few times and I'd say he doesn't line guys up and iron them out when the opportunity is there. He does tackle them and bring them to ground though. There is a difference between not wanting to really hurt someone and being soft in my mind. Not that my mind is soft