Moved Thread If Tasmania gets the 19th license, what state or territory would you like to see team 20 based in?

[Tassieboy]

If the Feds do fund the stadium, will the Tasmanian State Labor politicians take down their ‘No stadium’ bumper stickers?

 

[pOleK]

Also worth noting the latest NRL game in Darwin. They got a crowd of 11,864.

They got 10k and 12k the previous years.

Darwin hasn't had a 10k-plus AFL game since 2019.

People spruik Darwin as an AFL mad city, but it's similar to Canberra. It's a multi-code city. Just with much fewer people.

To be fair though they did put two of the most well-supported teams in the country in Parra and Brisbane on show. Going by membership numbers it's "The Most Supported Team in Main Market 1" (Parramatta) VS "The Most Supported in Main Market 2" (Broncos). It'd be the equivalent of having Collingwood V West Coast play there, or for the alternate year the Cowboys play, Collingwood V Freo/Adelaide depending on how you look at it.

And since that 10k game, they had 2 games in 2020 that were still under a 50% capacity crowd, no games in 2021, and then 2022 with Gold Coast V North/Hawthorn, smaller Vic teams who were both battling for the wooden spoon. Perspective always helps.

 

[Canberra Pear]

To be fair though they did put two of the most well-supported teams in the country in Parra and Brisbane on show. Going by membership numbers it's "The Most Supported Team in Main Market 1" (Parramatta) VS "The Most Supported in Main Market 2" (Broncos). It'd be the equivalent of having Collingwood V West Coast play there, or for the alternate year the Cowboys play, Collingwood V Freo/Adelaide depending on how you look at it.

And since that 10k game, they had 2 games in 2020 that were still under a 50% capacity crowd, no games in 2021, and then 2022 with Gold Coast V North/Hawthorn, smaller Vic teams who were both battling for the wooden spoon. Perspective always helps.

Fair that the crowds are probably skewed with current teams, but it shows that Darwin isn't as solid AFL as many spruiking an NT team seem to think.

It's a multi-code city. Probably slightly higher AFL preference than Canberra, but definitely not the same as the southern states.

 

[pz5151]

That is a ridiculous idea. Just because people are indigenous does not mean they like AFL or are predisposed to liking AFL. Indigenous people from NSW and QLD prefer RL like the rest of the state. The NRL actually has a higher % of indigenous players. I suggest that is similar thinking to those that suggest that NT should have a team because the territory is footy mad. It is, but it is almost as mad about NRL. Ratings and TIO stadium crowds are on a par between the two codes.

Outer western Sydney in particular (past Parramatta) and middle WS (10k surrounding Homebush) are NRL mad. If you are going to keep GWS, keep them where they are and rezone some of the western suburbs to GWS that are in the Swans recruiting and promotional zone (like Canterbury and Bankstown). Focus on inner west where there is already some interest in AFL (Balmain, Marrickville, Newtown, etc) and middle west, not Blacktown or Penrith on the edge of the city.

I think the reasoning behind targeting outer Western Suburbs is that they have heaps of migrants whose kids are probably easier to win over to a new sport than children of a rusted on rugby league family.

 

[Bjo187]

I think the reasoning behind targeting outer Western Suburbs is that they have heaps of migrants whose kids are probably easier to win over to a new sport than children of a rusted on rugby league family.

It's hard enough getting brand new migrant groups in Melbourne where there's AFL saturation to get interested in the game, let alone in a place where the media intentionally try to give the game no attention and the local leagiue bogan bags the sport any time it's raised etc.

Even harder these days when the local Indian or Chinese immigrant can stream all tv and news from their homeland on their tv in Penrith too.

 

[Walshawk]

I think the reasoning behind targeting outer Western Suburbs is that they have heaps of migrants whose kids are probably easier to win over to a new sport than children of a rusted on rugby league family.

And it hasn’t worked at all. Surely it is apparent that it t is not working. Most of the the growth in participation is in Swans territory and would have happened anyway, without the introduction of GWS.

 

[Walshawk]

It's hard enough getting brand new migrant groups in Melbourne where there's AFL saturation to get interested in the game, let alone in a place where the media intentionally try to give the game no attention and the local leagiue bogan bags the sport any time it's raised etc.

Even harder these days when the local Indian or Chinese immigrant can stream all tv and news from their homeland on their tv in Penrith too.

Quote arrogant of the AFL to put a team somewhere that nobody is interested and expect that once they see our game that they will be converted. Massive fail.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Quote arrogant of the AFL to put a team somewhere that nobody is interested and expect that once they see our fame em they will be converted. Massive fail.

Why so? Membership numbers are good. Good interest in Canberra.

Thirty years ago they literally couldn't give tickets away to see the swans. People like you would have been calling the Sydney experiment a "massive fail". It takes a generation for the kids who are doing Auskick now to grow up as supporters.

It would have been a terrible strategic decision not to have a crack at a Western Sydney team of some sort and only have had 1 game a week in Australia's biggest city.

Whether it works or not is a long way away from being determined. The AFL is in absolutely rude health at the moment. It can more than afford to continue to try and ensure that it continues to be the number 1 football code and tries to continue to stretch that gap.

 

[Walshawk]

Why so? Membership numbers are good. Good interest in Canberra.

Thirty years ago they literally couldn't give tickets away to see the swans. People like you would have been calling the Sydney experiment a "massive fail". It takes a generation for the kids who are doing Auskick now to grow up as supporters.

It would have been a terrible strategic decision not to have a crack at a Western Sydney team of some sort and only have had 1 game a week in Australia's biggest city.

Whether it works or not is a long way away from being determined. The AFL is in absolutely rude health at the moment. It can more than afford to continue to try and ensure that it continues to be the number 1 football code and tries to continue to stretch that gap.

Sure the Swans were at a low ebb in 1993, but seven years before that they were backing out the SCG so you knew that the potential was there. The AFL is in rude health, sure, but GWS and GC have never been less popular in their main markets. Unless changes are made, it ain’t going to work.

 

[Coolangatta]

Sure the Swans were at a low ebb in 1993, but seven years before that they were backing out the SCG so you knew that the potential was there. The AFL is in rude health, sure, but GWS and GC have never been less popular in their main markets. Unless changes are made, it ain’t going to work.

But aren’t both of these markets growing fast in terms of youth participation? Not sure what the stats are on the number of junior players and clubs, though, which would be more telling than other stats. When those junior level kids get older we should see some improvement. Enough to justify their existence? Don’t know.

 

[aCunningPlan]

Sure the Swans were at a low ebb in 1993, but seven years before that they were backing out the SCG so you knew that the potential was there. The AFL is in rude health, sure, but GWS and GC have never been less popular in their main markets. Unless changes are made, it ain’t going to work.

Totally agree, I just don't understand the value GWS or the Gold Coast add to the league. If Tassie can match the essence of what Geelong have, by pretty much owning their patch of turf, their local media, their young talent, in ten years they will just be part of the furniture and a great addition to the league. Living in SA in the 90's when the Crows came in, don't underestimate the initial thrill of state pride.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Sure the Swans were at a low ebb in 1993, but seven years before that they were backing out the SCG so you knew that the potential was there. The AFL is in rude health, sure, but GWS and GC have never been less popular in their main markets. Unless changes are made, it ain’t going to work.

The only change required is more success is required on field. Gold Coast apoear to draw crowds slightly higher than the Titans.

They both operate in markets where success is the prime indicator of popularity.

I wong even go into how much extra te AFL gets for the 9th game each week as part of its $4.5 Billion media deal.

 

[Fletched]

Sure the Swans were at a low ebb in 1993, but seven years before that they were backing out the SCG so you knew that the potential was there. The AFL is in rude health, sure, but GWS and GC have never been less popular in their main markets. Unless changes are made, it ain’t going to work.

They have been in horrid form for years, if they make the 8 the crowds would rise


Edit: someone else answered it better than me

 

[Tigerlaird]

I'm so happy to hear about Tasmania. Good for them, and it helps the mighty Panthers get closer to our AFL entry.

The South will rise again brothers.

 

[Walshawk]

But aren’t both of these markets growing fast in terms of youth participation? Not sure what the stats are on the number of junior players and clubs, though, which would be more telling than other stats. When those junior level kids get older we should see some improvement. Enough to justify their existence? Don’t know.

GC maybe, but most of the participation growth in Sydney is due to the Swans. It is growing well in the Swans designated Academy/Promotional Zone. Not so much in the ‘Greater West’. And any growth there would likely still have happened without GWS.

 

[Walshawk]

The only change required is more success is required on field. Gold Coast apoear to draw crowds slightly higher than the Titans.

They both operate in markets where success is the prime indicator of popularity.

I wong even go into how much extra te AFL gets for the 9th game each week as part of its $4.5 Billion media deal.

Yes but the increase from the 9th game is due to the addition of two teams, not due to where they were located. GWS in Sydney rates about 10% - 15% higher than games between non NSW clubs (I.e. 25k compared to 22k so they can’t take any credit for increased revenue). Might as well have put one team in Fitzroy and one in Sth Melbourne.

 

[Walshawk]

They have been in horrid form for years, if they make the 8 the crowds would rise


Edit: someone else answered it better than me

Didn’t happen with GWS. But yes, GC has more chance of succeeding. Lots of Vic expats up that way. Not many in Blacktown or Parramatta

 

[Walshawk]

Anyway, if there is a 20th team Canberra is the go. Little chance of a stadium unfortunately, so could be a long wait.

 

[pz5151]

The nightmare situation in Alice Springs is probably helping the case for a NT team. If it’s going to be based around federal funding as a community initiative it has potential. This and the Tassie team should be the AFL giving back to heartlands that have provided them with lots of talent, particularly Aboriginal Australia via the NT. Talent wise, it has massive potential to bring new players into the elite comp as there are lots of indigenous players who don’t want to move down to Melbourne who would be much more likely to play in a team based out of Darwin. There’s also a type of personality that would be attracted to life up in the tropics. It’s an astonishingly beautiful place.

 

[Fletched]

Didn’t happen with GWS. But yes, GC has more chance of succeeding. Lots of Vic expats up that way. Not many in Blacktown or Parramatta

To a point GWS improved during 2019 they had 2 crowds of 15k in western Sydney against vic clubs

Without covid and if the giants had still been good in 2020 who knows what they would have been getting

 

[Walshawk]

To a point GWS improved during 2019 they had 2 crowds of 15k in western Sydney against vic clubs

Without covid and if the giants had still been good in 2020 who knows what they would have been getting

If the AFL knew in 2008 that 15K (v Pies & Bombers) in a year where GWS made the GF was the best they could do, they would not have gone ahead. The experiment has been a massive disappointment. It astounds me that anyone would think that 15K is a great AFL crowd. Even GC have cracked 20k a few times. Change is needed @ GWS.

 

[Fletched]

If the AFL knew in 2008 that 15K (v Pies & Bombers) in a year where GWS made the GF was the best they could do, they would not have gone ahead. The experiment has been a massive disappointment. It astounds me that anyone would think that 15K is a great AFL crowd. Even GC have cracked 20k a few times. Change is needed @ GWS.

Their crowds clearly rise when they are winning their issue is on field not off field

 

[Rob]

Their crowds clearly rise when they are winning their issue is on field not off field

He's got a point though, even when they were winning they weren't filling their ground. ANd yes, I know pretty much no Sydney sporting team fills their ground regularly.

IMO they needed to be the anti-Swans. Not Swans lite.

 

[Canberra Pear]

He's got a point though, even when they were winning they weren't filling their ground. ANd yes, I know pretty much no Sydney sporting team fills their ground regularly.

IMO they needed to be the anti-Swans. Not Swans lite.

I've enjoyed the banter in the lead up. "Sydney-created, not relocated" the "upcoming match against South Melbourne".

It's clever, but it's a bit hollow claiming to be the Sydney team while only playing 2/3 of their home games there.

 

[Rob]

I've enjoyed the banter in the lead up. "Sydney-created, not relocated" the "upcoming match against South Melbourne".

I agree, but its too little.

Their identity from day 1 should have been the bad guys. Mostly black outfit, think LA Raiders. You like the Swans? Then f**k you.