Moved Thread If Tasmania gets the 19th license, what state or territory would you like to see team 20 based in?

[BigChippa52]

so each team plays each week you dont want the only Adelaide team to not play every week its a smaller league and needs to have even teams won't work with uneven teams, it will ruin the big bash if there is not even teams and its just better

 

[BigChippa52]

you want all teams play each week or game its good for team and league revenue less games means less cash

 

[Coolangatta]

Why does there need to be an even number of teams?

Yeah, I'm with you on this, getting rid of the bye isn't a good enough justification to go to 20, but I am not against a 20th team eventually and I'm sure the AFL shares that view; there just needs to be a rationalisation for each new team.

If it's not financially viable then why do it? The only exception to the rule of profitability that I can see is the NT which could be justified as an Indigenous social/health program but even then, what happens when governments change power and don't want to commit to NT footy funding? Not to mention the climate barriers.

Canberra I think is a good long-term financially viable bet but we cannot know what the state of the AFL will look like in the 2030s in terms of how many feeder clubs there are relative to self-sustaining clubs.

Obviously the less AFL dependent clubs there are, the better chances there are for Canberra to come in within 5-10 years after Tasmania.

 

[BigChippa52]

i thought he meant that for the big bash

 

[Coolangatta]

i thought he meant that for the big bash

Yeah I just sorta jumped in to this... bring on a Canberra big bash team. The point still applies to the AFL, or any sporting code. Having an even number of teams because it "looks better" or gets rid of the bye isn't a good enough reason; that's how you get teams who's viability are questionable to begin with.

 

[BigChippa52]

i think for the big bash it needs to be even

 

[Walshawk]

so each team plays each week you dont want the only Adelaide team to not play every week its a smaller league and needs to have even teams won't work with uneven teams, it will ruin the big bash if there is not even teams and its just better

Huh? There are no rounds in the BBL. They play nightly each team playing around twice a week. An odd number of teams would not change anything - you would not even notice.

 

[BigChippa52]

still think it would be better you want every team playing

 

[Canberra Pear]

I hope things are that simple for Canberra and appreciate that team 20 will likely have an easier pathway than 19; however, that would be a terrible look for the AFL and Tasmanians will be furious at the double standard.

UTAS stadium is being upgraded over two stages for $130m and it will result in a much improved facility with all terraced seating removed, new grandstands, change rooms, food, beverage and corporate facilities. I suppose a similar amount of money could make a significant difference for Manuka as well.

It might be a double standard, but they're completely different circumstances.

Tasmania is hardcore AFL. And their only other outdoor professional team (the Hurricanes) will also benefit. Canberra is a mixed-code town. We have more AFL support than anywhere else north of the Murray, but we still have two (possibly soon-to-be three) professional sides using rectangular fields. And no BBL team to supplement use of an oval stadium.

There's been looong talks about replacing the outdated rectangular stadium with a new one in the CBD (though a redevelopment is looking more likely). The ACT is probably the safest political state/territory in the country, but it'd take a brave chief minister to come out and offer a brand new $700m stadium for the AFL before anything happens for the rectangular sports.

The only other place that would offer a brand new stadium for an AFL team is the NT, and the stadium would be the least of their worries.

I always said from the beginning that one of the biggest issues for Tassie was Hobart’s facility being sub-par for footy. If they had a comparable stadium on the edge of the CBD, or Launceston was the largest city in the state, then it’s likely that a brand new stadium would not be mandatory requirement.

This is the other big factor. The placement of Manuka is fine once the light rail comes in. There's also not room for an AFL stadium any closer to the CBD. The rectangular stadium plans already had to shave capacity to squeeze into the site.

I'm assuming the Hobart change will be like Footy Park to Adelaide Oval (which was amazing from a Port perspective). Whereas any alternatives for Manuka are actually further away from the city. Phillip might be an option, but development is building up quickly there, so they might be too late soon.

 

[Badger17]

I reckon this is the third time you have read this about the same poster who has repeatedly acknowledged their bias....

Acknowledges but does nothing of substance to address.

Some of his ideas and thoughts are just flat out wrong, but many people here are inclined to accept them because he's based in Canberra and saying what they want to hear. The fact you think I'm biased simply for pushing back shows that it's becoming a circle jerk.

If you focussed more on your own cognitive dissonance than telling others about theirs you would grasp the implication of this point.

Interest levels are debatable now despite the RL having its own professional side for the last 40 years. An AFL club based in Canberra would tap the parochial vein and benefit from having the club and players based in the city and games on every second week. That would be additional to the base support of the code.

No doubt the AFL would transform Canberra.

An AFL club based in Canberra wouldn't significantly add to the Aussie Rules fanbase in Canberra initially. For the most part all it would do is unite a significant portion of the current Aussie Rules fanbase in Canberra behind a single club, instead of it being fractured between all the other clubs and local teams to a lesser extent.

In other words a significant portion of that base support would convert from being e.g. Collingwood, Richmond, Swans, etc, fans into fans of the new Canberran team, instead of a large contingent of fans new to the sport or AFL popping up out of nowhere to support the new club. Which is exactly what happened in RL and RU when the Raiders and Brumbies joined the NSWRL and SR respectively, and probably every other expansion team as well BTW.

That will undoubtably make the sport more visible in the city than it currently is, and give it a better base from which to grow over future generations, but it won't result in a significant increase in support for the sport at least until a generation of kids grow up with the new team, and is unlikely to have really significant impacts on the Raiders/RL's support in real terms going forward either.

If there's one thing I've learned being a Canberran sports fan it's that generally when a sport or team is struggling it's because of mistakes they've made, not because of what their competitors in other sports are doing.

 

[pz5151]

An AFL club based in Canberra wouldn't significantly add to the Aussie Rules fanbase in Canberra initially. For the most part all it would do is unite a significant portion of the current Aussie Rules fanbase in Canberra behind a single club, instead of it being fractured between all the other clubs and local teams to a lesser extent.

In other words a significant portion of that base support would convert from being e.g. Collingwood, Richmond, Swans, etc, fans into fans of the new Canberran team, instead of a large contingent of fans new to the sport or AFL popping up out of nowhere to support the new club. Which is exactly what happened in RL and RU when the Raiders and Brumbies joined the NSWRL and SR respectively, and probably every other expansion team as well BTW.

That will undoubtably make the sport more visible in the city than it currently is, and give it a better base from which to grow over future generations, but it won't result in a significant increase in support for the sport at least until a generation of kids grow up with the new team, and is unlikely to have really significant impacts on the Raiders/RL's support in real terms going forward either.

If there's one thing I've learned being a Canberran sports fan it's that generally when a sport or team is struggling it's because of mistakes they've made, not because of what their competitors in other sports are doing.

Wouldn’t this still be beneficial as those supporters of other clubs would be more likely to pay for a membership since they could watch their team 11 weeks a year?

 

[Bjo187]

Would a full Giants relocation to Canberra make the team more or less popular than if it were a brand new Canberra franchise entering the competition? Canberra Pear
Badger17

 

[Coolangatta]

Would a full Giants relocation to Canberra make the team more or less popular than if it were a brand new Canberra franchise entering the competition? Canberra Pear
Badger17

Not gonna speak on their behalf but I do think Sydney is too big for just one team. If the Giants should relocate anywhere it’s Blacktown, at least going by what I’ve read.

 

[Walshawk]

Whether anywhere gets a 20th team will depend on how

Not gonna speak on their behalf but I do think Sydney is too big for just one team. If the Giants should relocate anywhere it’s Blacktown, at least going by what I’ve read.

Lord no! They have already moved from Blacktown. Not an AFL supporting soul for miles around.

 

[Coolangatta]

Whether anywhere gets a 20th team will depend on how

Lord no! They have already moved from Blacktown. Not an AFL supporting soul for miles around.

The stuff I read was something like trying to tap into the Indigenous community there, Sydney people not wanting to commute from Blacktown and Blacktown being the “real Western Sydney.”

But I wouldn’t know Sydney from a bar of soap. Where would you set up the Giants (aside from Canberra) or do you think they’re in the best location for WS?

 

[Walshawk]

The stuff I read was something like trying to tap into the Indigenous community there, Sydney people not wanting to commute from Blacktown and Blacktown being the “real Western Sydney.”

But I wouldn’t know Sydney from a bar of soap. Where would you set up the Giants (aside from Canberra) or do you think they’re in the best location for WS?

That is a ridiculous idea. Just because people are indigenous does not mean they like AFL or are predisposed to liking AFL. Indigenous people from NSW and QLD prefer RL like the rest of the state. The NRL actually has a higher % of indigenous players. I suggest that is similar thinking to those that suggest that NT should have a team because the territory is footy mad. It is, but it is almost as mad about NRL. Ratings and TIO stadium crowds are on a par between the two codes.

Outer western Sydney in particular (past Parramatta) and middle WS (10k surrounding Homebush) are NRL mad. If you are going to keep GWS, keep them where they are and rezone some of the western suburbs to GWS that are in the Swans recruiting and promotional zone (like Canterbury and Bankstown). Focus on inner west where there is already some interest in AFL (Balmain, Marrickville, Newtown, etc) and middle west, not Blacktown or Penrith on the edge of the city.

 

[LordLucifer]

Not gonna speak on their behalf but I do think Sydney is too big for just one team. If the Giants should relocate anywhere it’s Blacktown, at least going by what I’ve read.

Correct, Sydney can easily accomodate a third team.

VIC - 6 Melb & 1 Geel
NSW - 3 Syd, 1 Illawarra & 1 Central Coast
QLD - 2 Bris, 1 Sunshine Coast & 1 Gold Coast
SA - 2 Adel
WA - 2 Perth
TAS - 1 Hob
ACT - 1 Canb

 

[Rob]

That is a ridiculous idea. Just because people are indigenous does not mean they like AFL or are predisposed to liking AFL. Indigenous people from NSW and QLD prefer RL like the rest of the state. The NRL actually has a higher % of indigenous players. I suggest that is similar thinking to those that suggest that NT should have a team because the territory is footy mad. It is, but it is almost as mad about NRL. Ratings and TIO stadium crowds are on a par between the two codes.

It's more ridiculous given indigenous people make up a tiny % of overall people in Western Sydney.

Why wouldn't you just target "people"?

 

[kalex6251]

very much a live question now given the expected announcement of tassie as the 19th team in coming days

3rd perth team by 2030?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Would a full Giants relocation to Canberra make the team more or less popular than if it were a brand new Canberra franchise entering the competition? Canberra Pear
Badger17

Good question.

I think if the Giants relocated, they would be embraced as a Canberra team. Through much of our history we've been trying for a relocated team, it's seemed like the only option for most of it.

But I think a brand new team would be slightly more popular than a relocated Giants.

There'd be a lot of community buy-in, the town helping decide the identity etc. Hopefully a more Canberra-specific identity. The build up would be a lot more exciting.

I feel any relocation would have a touch of sadness tainting the excitement a new team should bring.

I would be a Canberra Giants member, go to as many games as possible, and evangelise as many Canberrans as I can, but I still strongly prefer a brand new team (for both our and Western Sydney's sake).

 

[Bjo187]

Good question.

I think if the Giants relocated, they would be embraced as a Canberra team. Through much of our history we've been trying for a relocated team, it's seemed like the only option for most of it.

But I think a brand new team would be slightly more popular than a relocated Giants.

There'd be a lot of community buy-in, the town helping decide the identity etc. Hopefully a more Canberra-specific identity. The build up would be a lot more exciting.

I feel any relocation would have a touch of sadness tainting the excitement a new team should bring.

I would be a Canberra Giants member, go to as many games as possible, and evangelise as many Canberrans as I can, but I still strongly prefer a brand new team (for both our and Western Sydney's sake).

Yeah that sounds about right. I just worry if it was a giants relocation, it might miss that sugar hit that all new teams get and could feel like sloppy seconds to Canberran's. That wouldn't matter second generation, but initially it might not get those casual people, the ones that go along to see the shiny new toy in town.

I also got a contact for Eddie McGuire and was trying to find your comparison of Canberra v N.T for team 20, but can't find it now. Will point out how absurd the business case is for N.T, but I forget all the main points? if he even bothers to read my email that is.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Yeah that sounds about right. I just worry if it was a giants relocation, it might miss that sugar hit that all new teams get and could feel like sloppy seconds to Canberran's. That wouldn't matter second generation, but initially it might not get those casual people, the ones that go along to see the shiny new toy in town.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I'd begrudgingly take it, but I think you'd rather a team arrive with a bang. A relocation would be seen as a retreat and consolation rather than a celebration.

And obviously crap for the 20k Western Sydney members.

I also got a contact for Eddie McGuire and was trying to find your comparison of Canberra v N.T for team 20, but can't find it now. Will point out how absurd the business case is for N.T, but I forget all the main points? if he even bothers to read my email that is.

That's awesome, I tried emailing him, but just guessed the email and it bounced. Want me to DM what I tried sending?

 

[Bjo187]

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I'd begrudgingly take it, but I think you'd rather a team arrive with a bang. A relocation would be seen as a retreat and consolation rather than a celebration.

And obviously crap for the 20k Western Sydney members.



That's awesome, I tried emailing him, but just guessed the email and it bounced. Want me to DM what I tried sending?

Yeah if you could

 

[Coolangatta]

No way will the Giants relocate, the AFL will spend another 20 years at least trying to crack the Western Sydney market. They won’t let it go.

very much a live question now given the expected announcement of tassie as the 19th team in coming days

3rd perth team by 2030?

20 teams would be a lot; therefore, I think it’s better to target new, unrepresented markets. That would be the ACT, the NT, and NZ. And Canberra are well ahead of the other two.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Also worth noting the latest NRL game in Darwin. They got a crowd of 11,864.

They got 10k and 12k the previous years.

Darwin hasn't had a 10k-plus AFL game since 2019.

People spruik Darwin as an AFL mad city, but it's similar to Canberra. It's a multi-code city. Just with much fewer people.