If the Dees don't make the eight is it a failure?

[DemonTim]

You may have a point, but even if that is true it still asserts my main point of contention (melbourne has had a lot of access to high picks and benefited from them). Because Melbournes first pick was very high and that allowed them to get a highly rated player for dirt cheap compared to where he was rated and to what other clubs paid for their f/s picks.
Watson was drafted under a different f/s system but I am not arguing that it didn't benefit us.

Even if it is true? So there is no evidence of a "deal", yet you are acting as if reality is the "IF". Strong confirmation bias.

The original discussion was around Melbourne's rebuild, and the implication that we SHOULD be good, because of all our high draft picks/doing dodgy deals/being lucky, and that we are only coming good because of this "access" we had. We were shit for years, had 2 regimes with access to very high picks (moreso than now) and the picks did nothing. Melbourne's high picks have no bearing on our current success/failure.

 

[Teeko]

You can't count both Scully AND the 2012 picks. It's one or the other.

Oliver was traded up, not a flat out draft pick.

And honestly people including Trengove is starting to annoy me because of the reasons why he isn't playing. He virtually didn't play a game for 2 years with his foot, it's the Matthew Egan injury and he will be lucky to get back to his pre-injury form. One of the shittiest stories in footy and honestly it's noone's fault that it happened. Sure, you can count it as a fail, but a fail due to injury (as with Morabito) is different to a development fail.

If you want development fail at Melbourne I would like to direct you to Exhibit A, Cale Morton...

My intention was not to double dip with Scully and the 2012 picks. I wasn't keeping a tally. Rather I was showing how access to many high picks has benefited Melbourne.
It's true that you did trade up for Oliver, but that was with pick 6 - still quite high.
Listing Trengove is perfectly valid in my mind as I am not using him as an example of poor development. All clubs have had players who have been restricted by serious injury, even high draft picks (Gumbleton+Myers from mine). It's the large amount of high picks that Melbourne has had (and subsequently good drafting) that has allowed Melbourne to absorb Trengove more easily.

 

[DemonTim]

My intention was not to double dip with Scully and the 2012 picks. I wasn't keeping a tally. Rather I was showing how access to many high picks has benefited Melbourne.
It's true that you did trade up for Oliver, but that was with pick 6 - still quite high.
Listing Trengove is perfectly valid in my mind as I am not using him as an example of poor development. All clubs have had players who have been restricted by serious injury, even high draft picks (Gumbleton+Myers from mine). It's the large amount of high picks that Melbourne has had (and subsequently good drafting) that has allowed Melbourne to absorb Trengove more easily.

Question: Is Melbourne's move up the ladder a results of high draft picks?

 

[Milanista28]

Need outside class, Josh Kelly would be perfect for them right now.

 

[DemonTim]

Need outside class, Josh Kelly would be perfect for them right now.

Topkent

 

[Milanista28]

Topkent

Am I in trouble??

FWIW I like Tyson and Salem with luck will be a good player, Still think Kelly would be perfect for you guys.

 

[DemonTim]

Am I in trouble??

FWIW I like Tyson and Salem with luck will be a good player, Still think Kelly would be perfect for you guys.

Not at all. Topkent just gets triggered when people mention outside pace and class lol

 

[Topkent]

Am I in trouble??

FWIW I like Tyson and Salem with luck will be a good player, Still think Kelly would be perfect for you guys.

Outside pace and class is a lazy thing people in the media use who don't understand footy

Most blokes that are quick can't kick that well
Hill ×2, Hunt, Saad, Smith, Cameron, Treloar, Scully etc

Most with class aren't fast
Mitchell, Pendles, Lewis, B.Smith, Bont etc

The Hawthorn and Geelong eras had slow midfields. You don't run the ball quickly you pass it.

 

[Milanista28]

Outside pace and class is a lazy thing people in the media use who don't understand footy

Most blokes that are quick can't kick that well
Hill ×2, Hunt, Saad, Smith, Cameron, Treloar, Scully etc

Most with class aren't fast
Mitchell, Pendles, Lewis, B.Smith, Bont etc

The Hawthorn and Geelong eras had slow midfields. You don't run the ball quickly you pass it.

When I say outside class I don't really mean pace, That kick that sets up the scoring chain is the class I am talking about, That Sam Mitchell vision, That Pendlebury brain, That Gaff inside 50.

Just one guy who can carve the opposition up when let off the chain, The guy is probably on the list just need him to develop and breakout, Could well be Salem.

 

[Bokonon_]

Outside pace and class is a lazy thing people in the media use who don't understand footy

Most blokes that are quick can't kick that well
Hill ×2, Hunt, Saad, Smith, Cameron, Treloar, Scully etc

Most with class aren't fast
Mitchell, Pendles, Lewis, B.Smith, Bont etc

The Hawthorn and Geelong eras had slow midfields. You don't run the ball quickly you pass it.

Ahh well
We'll just have to keep him then. We can livee with that.
Take your point. You see it in North's game, move it by foot very quickly, and it does work

 

[Topkent]

When I say outside class I don't really mean pace, That kick that sets up the scoring chain is the class I am talking about, That Sam Mitchell vision, That Pendlebury brain, That Gaff inside 50.

Just one guy who can carve the opposition up when let off the chain, The guy is probably on the list just need him to develop and breakout, Could well be Salem.

Petracca and Brayshaw both have that potential, Oliver has beautiful vision by hand still not sure by foot

Watts kicks to a leading forward as well as anyone these days and Kent and Vince can both kick beautifully at times as well

Hibberd will be our kicker from defence whilst Melksham is also a beautiful kick
Jordan Lewis goes OK as well


That's before mentioning Salem and Nathan Jones who I think can play a Mitchell role behind the stoppage as well

Who couldn't do with an extra Josh Kelly? Bulldogs seemed to do OK without him though

 

[Topkent]

Ahh well
We'll just have to keep him then. We can livee with that.
Take your point. You see it in North's game, move it by foot very quickly, and it does work

The Hawks triple premiership midfield was Hodge, Lewis, Sewell, Burgoyne mixed with Hill/Rioli/Smith then Birchall/Suckling/Guerra etc

Wouldn't call it quick

Cats was Ablett, Bartel, Johnson, Kelly, Ling, Selwood, Wojcinski, Chapman, Corey, Varcoe

Again not quick, Just bloody good players

 

[Ambrosia]

They were shown to be inaccurate with actual stats, Melbournes first rounders on their list is the same as the league average. You referenced consisted top 5 picks for the last 6 or so years, weve had 4 and three had explanations around good management around them. They're factually inaccurate.

Hardick took a much worse list did he? oh dear god. Richmond finished second bottom the year he took over with 5.5 wins and a percentage of 74.29. Richmond played finals in 2013.
Compare that to Roos who took a side that finished second bottom (GWS finished bottom) with 2 wins and a percentage of 54.07. Melbourne missed finals in his third year, agreed, but to claim that richmond was in much worse shape, is again, as standard with your posts, factually incorrect.

Melbourne have had access to 5 top 5 picks in the last 6 years which is more than any other non expansion side.

I agree the Richmond example is poor not because of the difference in quality of list (If you think Neeld had Melbourne performing anywhere near their best in 2013 you're a moron). I was wrong Hardwick's 2012 season is comparable to Melbourne's 2016 season.

 

[DemonTim]

Melbourne have had access to 5 top 5 picks in the last 6 years which is more than any other non expansion side.

I agree the Richmond example is poor not because of the difference in quality of list (If you think Neeld had Melbourne performing anywhere near their best in 2013 you're a moron). I was wrong Hardwick's 2012 season is comparable to Melbourne's 2016 season.

2 of which were not standard due to players leaving. We understood the implication of "consistent access"

That's debatable. Neeld was pathetic but I don't think our list was 2.25 times better than how it actually played. Especially considering about 75% of our list was turned over under Roos.

 

[10571z]

Melbourne have one of the best up and coming lists in my opinion. I think finals should happen if everything clicks. I would say it would be reasonable to expect a top 8 finish so anything less would be a massive disappointment. Roo's really turned that club around.

 

[Trav 20]

Melbourne have one of the best up and coming lists in my opinion. I think finals should happen if everything clicks. I would say it would be reasonable to expect a top 8 finish so anything less would be a massive disappointment. Roo's really turned that club around.

He was worth every cent.

 

[Decimation]

Melbourne have one of the best up and coming lists in my opinion. I think finals should happen if everything clicks. I would say it would be reasonable to expect a top 8 finish so anything less would be a massive disappointment. Roo's really turned that club around.

He is not the only one. Peter Jackson is probably even more influential in the clubs turnaround.

 

[Higgs Boson]

Trengrove, Garland and Spencer will play the majority of the season in the reserves so only 8 players in the first team

Delete your account

 

[Topkent]

Delete your account

Meh it's been 3 years since I've had to type it regularly

 

[QLDbeachbabe]

This is a hard one but I'm going with a failure if they don't make finals.

 

[sonnywalters]

Outside pace and class is a lazy thing people in the media use who don't understand footy

Most blokes that are quick can't kick that well
Hill ×2, Hunt, Saad, Smith, Cameron, Treloar, Scully etc

Most with class aren't fast
Mitchell, Pendles, Lewis, B.Smith, Bont etc

The Hawthorn and Geelong eras had slow midfields. You don't run the ball quickly you pass it.

Ridiculous comment. The issue isnt about pace as an individual player - it is viewing a team as a unit of 22 blokes.
You need some pace in your 22.
Obviously you dont neeed pace to be a great player but that is a completely different discussion.
The discussion is about winning flags - not Brownlows or MVPS or individual awards.

Name me a Premiership side in history that didnt have a couple of quick blokes in the side.
Or Ill ask it another way.
Would you prefer to have 3-4 different ways and methods to move the ball fwd or 4-5?
Talk about 'not understanding footy'.
Why does every single club in the AFL have a few very quick blokes on their list?
DO they all not know anything about footy?

 

[JaxsonB]

IMO, with how competitive spots 5 through 8 should be this year (and in particular 7 and 8), a successful Dee's year won't necessarily have a finals appearance - 10+ wins, and in contention for the finals at various points in the season.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Outside pace and class is a lazy thing people in the media use who don't understand footy

Most blokes that are quick can't kick that well
Hill ×2, Hunt, Saad, Smith, Cameron, Treloar, Scully etc

Most with class aren't fast
Mitchell, Pendles, Lewis, B.Smith, Bont etc

The Hawthorn and Geelong eras had slow midfields. You don't run the ball quickly you pass it.

Hawthorns era wasn't fast, but we did have quick users of the ball

Geelong though was extremely quick. Re watch it, all they did was run in straight lines (but if an over exaggeration). They were probably the fastest side ever

 

[DemonTim]

Ridiculous comment. The issue isnt about pace as an individual player - it is viewing a team as a unit of 22 blokes.
You need some pace in your 22.
Obviously you dont neeed pace to be a great player but that is a completely different discussion.
The discussion is about winning flags - not Brownlows or MVPS or individual awards.

Name me a Premiership side in history that didnt have a couple of quick blokes in the side.
Or Ill ask it another way.
Would you prefer to have 3-4 different ways and methods to move the ball fwd or 4-5?
Talk about 'not understanding footy'.
Why does every single club in the AFL have a few very quick blokes on their list?
DO they all not know anything about footy?

You've completely misinterpreted what he's said

 

[Leeda]

with the Lewis Meister it will be an almost cinch to wander into the bottom eight and at least win a game.

and that is saying a lot if the Melb boys can take what he knows and trundle on..