Play Nice Indigenous AFL players call out Adam Goodes's treatment ahead of The Final Quarter documentary release

[Back One Out]

Criticism isn't just limited to booing. Pretty disingenuous to try and narrow the scope like that.

I didn't mean just booing

I meant overt criticism and condemnation from the footy public.

No, not a peep.

Yeah, well... That's the Collingwood cheer squad for you. Not exactly the best people to sample for public opinion, especially on this matter.

I don't doubt the majority of people probably even agreed with the sentiments expressed above. That was footy culture at the time - what happens on the field, stays on the field and sledging was part of the game; all's fair in love and war; etc etc

People thought Long was being a sook, but I don't remember anyone (outside of Collingwood) giving him grief about it.

People probably felt a bit more sympathy for Long being called a black c___ by an opponent and him not being happy with the mediation process and being railroaded by the AFL, compared to a young girl being publicly humiliated on TV and in the papers for calling Goodes an ape. Slightly different power dynamic*

*Don't shoot the messenger either. I'm just saying why I think Goodes copped it. Some people didn't care about the girl's age, but most people will automatically side with a kid and be 'protective' of her.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Nah, he copped the whole 'being confrontational' and associated lines.

Is that something you remember or something you're inferring?

Winmar wasn't a major story at the time. It was a story, but not big. It blew up a little after McAllister's "conduct themselves like white people", and then some Aboriginal bloke performed a ceremony where he "pointed the bone" to supposedly bring Collingwood bad luck. The public wasn't heavily invested in it one way or the other; most took it as an opportunity to laugh at Collingwood.

 

[Bombermania]

Sam Newman did blackface in 1999 to make fun of Nicky Winmar on The Footy Show.

That happened when Sam made out Winmar was coming on the show and then after several segments applied black nugget to his face to pretend he was Nikki, the joke clearly didn't work. Maybe Nikki was suppose be on or it was as badly thought out as it looked.

 

[Occidental]

Pull your head in. It's not a lie. It's the dead set truth. Winmar received huge support after he made his stand against the racist abuse he copped at Victoria Park.

The Collingwood president, Allan McAlister made a goose of himself with some foot-in-mouth comments, but he was pretty much on his own. McAlister was publicly ridiculed by everyone after his dickhead comments. Unfortunately for him, he never lived that moment down.

There was no other blow back on Winmar. The Footy Show didn't even exist in 1993, so I'm not sure what hand wringing you're referring to from Sam Newman. Some off the cuff remark he made on the Sunday morning wrap??? Nothing worth mentioning. Newman's blackface stunt on The Footy Show occurred when Winmar didn't show up for a scheduled guest appearance.

There was never any debate about the Winmar and McAdam racial vilification in 1993, nor the scenes which followed. It was an ugly incident which received almost total condemnation and Winmar was almost universally applauded for taking a stand against it.

I'd go as far as saying that was a turning point for Winmar when he became respected by most non-Saints supporters after being regarded as a bit of a angry, punchy player before that (same as Chris Lewis.) I think people belatedly realised he was probably reacting to racist abuse and fighting back. The '93 Winmar and '95 Long incidents are what changed the culture of football, when nearkly everyone in the football world finally woke up to themselves and realised that the racial abuse was not "part of the game" and that it had to stop.

The Winmar 1993 issue is not exactly what people remember. It was a slow burn. Four days after that game Winmar walked out on StKilda demanding more money. He didn’t play for 5 weeks and St Kilda were furious. They lost every game without him.
It’s very rare for a player to do that - walking out in the middle of a season. That was the big news regarding him after that game. This idea of Winmar immediately receiving huge support did not happen. Even his own club was at odds with him.
However the Collingwood President spoke abysmally about the issue and was rightfully condemned. That massively inflamed the issue.
But Winmar was not commenting on anything. He was on strike.
The incident was rightfully remembered, but it didn’t really gain traction until a few years later. Especially once Michael Long spoke up.

 

[theprospect]

No he was a diver and he was a sniper. That's why the Booing started. Some racists then joined in but were the minority. This is horrible re-writing of history

Completely ignorant comment. Let's take a look at a rough timeline of what happened since you mention the 'horrible re-writing of history'.

He was never booed before calling out a young girl for her racist remark in the Collingwood game. He holds a presser the next morning expressing his utter shock and disbelief, and how sad he is that this could happen. He pleads for people to not be angry with her, and that she's innocent as it's a result of what she hears and sees, that the younger generation need to be better educated. Eddie McGuire, 4 days later after apologising on behalf of Collingwood goes on radio and suggests that they should get Goodes down to promote a King Kong production. Starting to see a pattern here?

After Goodes was named Australian Of The Year, he used it as a platform to highlight the state of race relations in Australia and push for improvements in indigenous health and other indigenous welfare issues. In case you're not aware, he was chosen for the award for his leadership and advocacy in the fight against racism both on the sporting field and within society.

In the Indigenous Round of 2015, after kicking a goal against Carlton, he performs a war cry dance celebrating his indigenous heritage.

And then we get to the next week. He's booed the entire game by a large section of West Coast supporters after copping criticism all week, before Lewis Jetta shows his support by performing a similar war cry after kicking a goal. Goodes describes the situation as a continual battle after the game.

He then takes time away from Sydney to come to terms with everything that has been happening, and is so devastated by what has transpired that he's considering walking away from the game.

Gillon Mclachlan, pleads for supporters to stop the harassment and declares that supporters who continue to boo would be considered to be racially motivated in doing so. Chris Scott and Ross Lyon also have their say pleading for it to stop.

Goodes returns to Perth less than a month later for a final against Fremantle and is booed by a large majority of the fans in the stadium, one person was even ejected for racially vilifying a player - presumed to be Goodes.

This leads to the end of his career, where even in his last game against North Melbourne he is booed again, he walks away a broken and shattered man.

What part of any of that makes you think that racism wasn't the driving factor in this?

Saying that you booed him or defending others for doing so was because he played for free kicks or was a sniper, shows exactly how ignorant people are. People use it as an excuse because they're too afraid or cowardly to admit they are a racist.

 

[JackOutback]

There was no mass booing of winmar afterwards. Not even small sections of the crowd. Just the odd racist individual.

Was there booing of him from the crowds though? I don't remember any.

As pointed out, the situations don’t have to identical to be comparable. Neither Winmar nor Long were ‘universally praised’ for their stand, they copped plenty from fans in the stand and people within the AFL afterwards.

 

[Ron The Bear]

In the Indigenous Round of 2015, after kicking a goal against Carlton, he performs a war cry dance celebrating his indigenous heritage.

And then we get to the next week. He's booed the entire game by a large section of West Coast supporters after copping criticism all week, before Lewis Jetta shows his support by performing a similar war cry after kicking a goal.

These were two months apart.

It wasn't bothering him the previous year.

No need to lose the boos, says Goodes

I'm not going to accuse him of being melodramatic by taking a week off. It's possible the last 10 months was more traumatic than the first 16 months after the Collingwood game.

 

[Go the Guts]

Country people claim city-dwellers are the strongest advocates because they never actually have to deal with Aboriginals. Racism cuts both ways where interaction happens as a matter of course. There just aren’t many around in Melbourne.

Way to dodge the question...........

And FYI I grew up in the country for 8 years, and in most of my classes at school, there were at least 6-8 aboriginal kids. I grew up in the Yorke Peninsula - Wanganeen and Goodes territory. Narungga mob. I had a number of Wanganeens in my classes. But I never had to 'deal' with aboriginal people, because many of them were friends. That's what actually happens with the vast majority of aboriginal people when you don't come into a situation with a racist attitude.

Just reading the way you word many of your posts, you like to come across as a bit of an authority on the issue of race, but I really don't think you have any idea........certainly little to no empathy, from what I've read. And this all comes down to a true understanding of the plight of aboriginal people - not just a white man's ignorant head in the sand attitude, which is prevalent in SO many white people in this country.

If only........ you/they could walk around in black skin for a day......no, even for an hour.

 

[Mordecai]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/dun...-refuses-photo-handshake-20190723-p52a36.html yet another case of racism... (sigh)

"He is completely right. If people are booing him, it’s for a reason. He should be asking himself now – should I really be in this sport when people are booing me? If I was swimming I wouldn’t even get on the podium for that matter," Peaty said.

Adam Peaty outright in his stance against racism.

A word to those of you out there that if you boo anywhere - even at an AFL game this weekend then you are bundling yourself in with racists worldwide. Please don't boo.

 

[Ron The Bear]

If only........ you/they could walk around in black skin for a day......no, even for an hour.

Obviously I can't, which is why I didn't try to answer the question.

You make it sound as though every white person in Australia is racist except in the corner you grew up in. As though there is literally nowhere to escape racism. In my experience most people are naturally accepting when they can see others making an effort to fit in, and racists are a small minority.

Why would I donate my hard-earned every year off my own bat if I didn't have empathy? I'm selective about which charities I donate to and turn plenty down. You've made a few assumptions that are off beam.

Put it this way, I don't donate to CBD beggars sitting in the same spot with the same sign day after day. And it's got nothing to do with their race.

 

[Ron The Bear]

If people are booing him, it’s for a reason.

Booing is a universal language. The language of disapproval.

If the crowd booed Gil McLachlan on Grand Final day, who's to say what each person is booing him for?

 

[Mordecai]

Booing is a universal language. The language of disapproval.

If the crowd booed Gil McLachlan on Grand Final day, who's to say what each person is booing him for?

Well I mean me - I am. I say it's racist for you to boo anyone, anywhere.

 

[Mordecai]

Completely ignorant comment. Let's take a look at a rough timeline of what happened since you mention the 'horrible re-writing of history'.

He was never booed before calling out a young girl for her racist remark in the Collingwood game. He holds a presser the next morning expressing his utter shock and disbelief, and how sad he is that this could happen. He pleads for people to not be angry with her, and that she's innocent as it's a result of what she hears and sees, that the younger generation need to be better educated. Eddie McGuire, 4 days later after apologising on behalf of Collingwood goes on radio and suggests that they should get Goodes down to promote a King Kong production. Starting to see a pattern here?

After Goodes was named Australian Of The Year, he used it as a platform to highlight the state of race relations in Australia and push for improvements in indigenous health and other indigenous welfare issues. In case you're not aware, he was chosen for the award for his leadership and advocacy in the fight against racism both on the sporting field and within society.

In the Indigenous Round of 2015, after kicking a goal against Carlton, he performs a war cry dance celebrating his indigenous heritage.

And then we get to the next week. He's booed the entire game by a large section of West Coast supporters after copping criticism all week, before Lewis Jetta shows his support by performing a similar war cry after kicking a goal. Goodes describes the situation as a continual battle after the game.

He then takes time away from Sydney to come to terms with everything that has been happening, and is so devastated by what has transpired that he's considering walking away from the game.

Gillon Mclachlan, pleads for supporters to stop the harassment and declares that supporters who continue to boo would be considered to be racially motivated in doing so. Chris Scott and Ross Lyon also have their say pleading for it to stop.

Goodes returns to Perth less than a month later for a final against Fremantle and is booed by a large majority of the fans in the stadium, one person was even ejected for racially vilifying a player - presumed to be Goodes.

This leads to the end of his career, where even in his last game against North Melbourne he is booed again, he walks away a broken and shattered man.

What part of any of that makes you think that racism wasn't the driving factor in this?

Saying that you booed him or defending others for doing so was because he played for free kicks or was a sniper, shows exactly how ignorant people are. People use it as an excuse because they're too afraid or cowardly to admit they are a racist.

That part at the start there. He was never booed for his skin color before all of this and not after.

 

[Monkey King]

Winmar wasn't a major story at the time. It was a story, but not big.

It was a big story for its time, but a slow burn. I remember the Herald Sun running that iconic photo on the back page the next day, suggesting the meaning of Winmar’s gesture as being - it “takes guts” to eke out a victory like that.

Long’s story was bigger, but as I recall it, big Monkey looked almost bemused staring down at a demure-like Long. I felt sorry for Long at the time, as the whole thing seemed insincere and farcical.

The image of Winmar is definitely the more powerful. Probably why it endures so. One of our sports most iconic images. I could be wrong, but I strongly suspect Goodes was itching to find a moment like this for himself.

 

[Maddo11]

I could be wrong, but I strongly suspect Goodes was itching to find a moment like this for himself.

In the BBC interview he did at the end of 2014, he said that he reacted on instinct, and that it'd been 10 years since the last time he'd been called something racist while playing.

I think you're being awfully unfair to presume that he planned out how to react to something that hadn't happened in a decade.

 

[Seeds]

As pointed out, the situations don’t have to identical to be comparable. Neither Winmar nor Long were ‘universally praised’ for their stand, they copped plenty from fans in the stand and people within the AFL afterwards.

They were close to being universally praised. Which is as close as you will ever get for anything.

In any case you must see the stark difference between how winmar and goodes were treated.

 

[Seeds]

The Winmar 1993 issue is not exactly what people remember. It was a slow burn. Four days after that game Winmar walked out on StKilda demanding more money. He didn’t play for 5 weeks and St Kilda were furious. They lost every game without him.
It’s very rare for a player to do that - walking out in the middle of a season. That was the big news regarding him after that game. This idea of Winmar immediately receiving huge support did not happen. Even his own club was at odds with him.
However the Collingwood President spoke abysmally about the issue and was rightfully condemned. That massively inflamed the issue.
But Winmar was not commenting on anything. He was on strike.
The incident was rightfully remembered, but it didn’t really gain traction until a few years later. Especially once Michael Long spoke up.

Winmars stand recieved bigger media attention then any single act goodes did. It was huge at the time. The image holding his shirt up was plasted all over the papers. Its one of the most iconic images of the game.

Winmar used to cop some seriously disgusting racial abuse in the stands. No one stood up for him so he did it himself. And he was celebrated by most people for it.

 

[Seeds]

Completely ignorant comment. Let's take a look at a rough timeline of what happened since you mention the 'horrible re-writing of history'.

He was never booed before calling out a young girl for her racist remark in the Collingwood game. He holds a presser the next morning expressing his utter shock and disbelief, and how sad he is that this could happen. He pleads for people to not be angry with her, and that she's innocent as it's a result of what she hears and sees, that the younger generation need to be better educated. Eddie McGuire, 4 days later after apologising on behalf of Collingwood goes on radio and suggests that they should get Goodes down to promote a King Kong production. Starting to see a pattern here?

After Goodes was named Australian Of The Year, he used it as a platform to highlight the state of race relations in Australia and push for improvements in indigenous health and other indigenous welfare issues. In case you're not aware, he was chosen for the award for his leadership and advocacy in the fight against racism both on the sporting field and within society.

In the Indigenous Round of 2015, after kicking a goal against Carlton, he performs a war cry dance celebrating his indigenous heritage.

And then we get to the next week. He's booed the entire game by a large section of West Coast supporters after copping criticism all week, before Lewis Jetta shows his support by performing a similar war cry after kicking a goal. Goodes describes the situation as a continual battle after the game.

He then takes time away from Sydney to come to terms with everything that has been happening, and is so devastated by what has transpired that he's considering walking away from the game.

Gillon Mclachlan, pleads for supporters to stop the harassment and declares that supporters who continue to boo would be considered to be racially motivated in doing so. Chris Scott and Ross Lyon also have their say pleading for it to stop.

Goodes returns to Perth less than a month later for a final against Fremantle and is booed by a large majority of the fans in the stadium, one person was even ejected for racially vilifying a player - presumed to be Goodes.

This leads to the end of his career, where even in his last game against North Melbourne he is booed again, he walks away a broken and shattered man.

What part of any of that makes you think that racism wasn't the driving factor in this?

Saying that you booed him or defending others for doing so was because he played for free kicks or was a sniper, shows exactly how ignorant people are. People use it as an excuse because they're too afraid or cowardly to admit they are a racist.

Goodes was booed well before that. That incident would of barely made any news at the time in Perth. It was an east coast story. And the mass booing began against hawthorn in the next season. Nice how the story is being re-written. Hawks fans started it.

 

[Seeds]

Stop repeating this lie. Plenty were wringing their hands about it too (Sam Newman being one of them) - even the Collingwood president at the time engaged in victim-blaming.

And like Winmar, in 20 years time we will collectively look upon these events with embarassment.

A couple of people dont stand for the majority. The majority supported winmar.

 

[Occidental]

N

Winmars stand recieved bigger media attention then any single act goodes did. It was huge at the time. The image holding his shirt up was plasted all over the papers. Its one of the most iconic images of the game.

Winmar used to cop some seriously disgusting racial abuse in the stands. No one stood up for him so he did it himself. And he was celebrated by most people for it.

No way!
Goodes has the 13 year old girl incident all over the papers & TV immediately. It was captured live on TV and replayed endlessly. It was then followed days later by the McGuire gaffe. This resonated Australia wide too. We really were a National League by then, and Goodes after all is a Sydney player.
Goodes was later on Australian Of The Year for goodness sake - that was incredibly publicised.
Everything about Goodes was NATIONAL news and on TV.
Winmar’s lifting the jumper was news alright, but nothing like anything re Goodes. Did it even make an interstate paper? It was never even caught on any TV footage.
Remember Winmar made NO immediate statements or interviews about what he did and he walked out on his club for five weeks basically going into hiding and leaving the media to his manager Peter Jess.
Goodes - immediately massive around the entire country, live on TV, interviews as follow up & then McGuire involved, then Australian of the Year.
Winmar - big news yes, but with him abandoning his club it immediately went on the back burner.

 

[romeohwho]

A couple of people dont stand for the majority. The majority supported winmar.

I’d have thought the point was that Winmar’s actions were a response to the racism that had been directed at him on that day, and on many other days, by supporters, and indeed other footballers. Yep, afterwards support emerged-maybe as you guess-it was a majority, or maybe it was just the mainstream. He also received death threats from some ‘supporters’ after the incident. If social media had been prominent no doubt it would have gone off with an array of responses-some in favour, some not. That’s because there are people in Australia who racially vilify others. They did it back then and they do it today. Some people booed Goodes for ‘inadequate’ reasons -racism, bullying, stupidity, ignorance, sore losers. Regardless, it wasn’t good enough in Winmar’s time and it wasn’t good enough in Goodes’ time. And it’s quite beyond me why anyone would wish to be a party to that, or try to excuse or justify such behaviour.

 

[Ron The Bear]

It was a big story for its time, but a slow burn. I remember the Herald Sun running that iconic photo on the back page the next day, suggesting the meaning of Winmar’s gesture as being - it “takes guts” to eke out a victory like that.

Long’s story was bigger, but as I recall it, big Monkey looked almost bemused staring down at a demure-like Long. I felt sorry for Long at the time, as the whole thing seemed insincere and farcical.

The image of Winmar is definitely the more powerful. Probably why it endures so. One of our sports most iconic images. I could be wrong, but I strongly suspect Goodes was itching to find a moment like this for himself.

Could be wrong but I remember it being in amongst the other stories in the HS's Sunday footy coverage. That would've been a different photo to The Age, which carried Ludbey's photo on the front page (but not as the headline story). Yes, it has endured and grown in significance with time and revised perspectives.

IMO Monkhorst/Long was actually more significant as it prompted the AFL to introduce racial vilification rules. But regardless of his intentions at the time, Winmar makes a good statue.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Did you also know that you can only be racist if you’re in a position of power?

So one may wish for genocide of a particular population and still not be racist if considered to be a marginalised group.

If you didn’t know this you need to educate yourself man.

This is wrong

 

[CatFan79]

This is wrong

Majority of lefties would disagree...

 

[deltablues]

[QUOTE="

What part of any of that makes you think that racism wasn't the driving factor in this?

Saying that you booed him or defending others for doing so was because he played for free kicks or was a sniper, shows exactly how ignorant people are. People use it as an excuse because they're too afraid or cowardly to admit they are a racist.
[/QUOTE]

Awesome projection.

You ignore all the posters here who consider Goodes a dirty player [rightly or wrongly], irrespective of his skin color, and discount those fans who admire other Aboriginal/part-Aboriginal players [Goodes being half-white].

Because that spoils your narrative, right?

And on the lofty heights of your moral high horse you can dismiss any views contrary to your own, without any intellectual objective engagement - becuz Racist.

OK.