Invoking a process for change at the AFC

[1970crow]

We’d be even more of a basket case than we are now. Have you even read this board?

That's just not true, accountability is a critical component of success, and we don't have any at all. As long as we're making our modest profits and not leaning on the AFL for $, our board get to self appoint in perpetuity. I would be more comfortable if the AFL appointed our board members rather than them go through an internal screening process that would weed out any strong alternative view holders.

 

[Coopers]

We’d be even more of a basket case than we are now. Have you even read this board?

I would hope they wouldn't be coming on bigfooty looking for board members.

Other than me, I'd be great at it. Just have to shuffle some of my other board commitments around so I can do it justice and give it the time it deserves.

 

[GameofSloanes]

Is there evidence as to whether a sporting club is more successful if the board is made up by people who are member elected?

At the very least it would mean we could get rid of the board if performances aren't up to scratch

 

[GameofSloanes]

16 of the last 18 premiers have come from clubs who fully elect their board.

I think both Port and Adelaide supporters would agree that financial stability is nice, what's nicer is winning flags. If you're not doing that or moving towards it, what's the point?

When the question of moving to a member elected board has been put to David Koch and the Port Adelaide board of directors, they've said something along the lines of "we don't want a board full of former players". Which ultimately is showing a complete lack of respect for the members, the kind of lack of respect that arises when the members can't vote you out, and that lack of respect for the members flows through everything Koch and the club do.

Based on what I heard from Crows supporters, I suspect a lot of you feel fairly similarly.

The Victorian clubs all fully member elect their board, as do Brisbane. They don't have boards full of former players with no business acumen. They for the most part have high performing and diverse boards.

The result of the status quo is that we have a buffoonish former morning TV presenter as our chairman and you have perhaps the worst example of an Adelaide establishment boys club member. Are these ideal leaders for a football club who wants to win premierships? Our board are incredibly stale and in desperate need for a cleanout, but we have no mechanism to do that as supporters.

What makes these people perform is the risk of being voted out next election. Without that threat, you get complacency and the kind of stagnation that both of our clubs have seen.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Attempted spills are fairly rare among the member owned clubs, so it's not like we'd be expecting a heap of volatility at board level. I'm fairly sure that there was one at Richmond in the year or so preceding their 2017 premiership. I guess that could be argued both ways, did the attempted spill put the incumbents on notice or does it show that they could have instead blown 3 flags over 4 years had the flag winning board been replaced.

I don't even think it's about spills. For example, I still think Koch would be our chairman now if we'd gained member elected status on being freed from the SANFL. But the threat of being voted out is enough for them to actually take the members seriously on how the club is run, and to change their behaviour as a result.

Imagine if every AGM these people had to defend themselves, defend their position and their record, and potentially had their allies on the board voted out. They then have to start thinking about that next AGM when they make big decisions.

We have a question time at our AGMs, but it's basically just angry supporters asking questions that the club don't care about answering and a lot of fobbing off and passing the buck. They can't do that if we can vote them out.

I think both clubs feel like we're dealing with boards who are totally disconnected from the average supporter. They can get away with that behaviour because they don't answer to us. Once they answer to us, they'll start behaving the way the supporters want.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

It's the one topic our fan bases should work together on. I've been calling for it for years now.

100%. I'm on board.

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[Enviable Tradition]

Or you could look at it this way

Is there evidence as to whether a country is more successful if the government is made up by people who are elected ?

I think if you are closely associated with a group, people like the democratic way of things being run and footy clubs are no different.

The "Worst" Form Of Governance - The Black And White Noise

Winston Churchill said that “democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’ And until 1997 when Port entered the AFL this “worst form of governance” had been the way the club had been run. Members were entrusted to vote for...

theblackandwhitenoise.com

"Winston Churchill said that “democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

And until 1997 when Port entered the AFL this “worst form of governance” had been the way the club had been run. Members were entrusted to vote for the board (often guided by suggestions from the incumbents that they trusted) and had elected successful boards..."

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[1970crow]

Or you could look at it this way

Is there evidence as to whether a country is more successful if the government is made up by people who are elected ?

I think if you are closely associated with a group, people like the democratic way of things being run and footy clubs are no different.

Kristof is a communist from way back, he chooses non-democracy every time.

 

[rocket18]

You guys need to start fighting now to make sure that they at least give you a significant portion of the seats if not the majority.

Of course I really only want this selfishly as if you guys get that it will put pressure on our board to fight for the same.

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Looks like it's up to the AFC to do the heavy lifting for Port Power again.

But seriously, I have my doubts that our board will relinquish control in 2028 to the members - might expand the 'member elected' by one.

 

[1970crow]

Looks like it's up to the AFC to do the heavy lifting for Port Power again.

But seriously, I have my doubts that our board will relinquish control in 2028 to the members - might expand the 'member elected' by one.

It's going to be interesting, the board will have to create a separate ruling class of membership. The constitution's default position is that the voting rights are transferred to 'electing members', which is the rank and file membership. But based on Wrinkles' article below, the board won't be allowing members to control the club. I've just pasted in a couple of paragraphs that I reckon tell the story.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/in-2028-the-crows-and-power-will-have-the-chance-to-have-democratically-elected-boards-graham-cornes-has-doubt-they-will-take-it/news-story/a245aa9ae5c65e96c466cba3040f0559?utm_campaign=EditorialSB&utm_source=The+Advertiser&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=SocialBakers&fbclid=IwY2xjawGVEKBleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHWxmB0N4lDy5I1-Ee9quFjSBf0MWDzUeOkgz28SbgUEVClE4f9xZd5h6uA_aem_D2X2iB2u_zuJGBu--IYbSQ

 

[GameofSloanes]

It's going to be interesting, the board will have to create a separate ruling class of membership. The constitution's default position is that the voting rights are transferred to 'electing members', which is the rank and file membership. But based on Wrinkles' article below, the board won't be allowing members to control the club. I've just pasted in a couple of paragraphs that I reckon tell the story.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/in-2028-the-crows-and-power-will-have-the-chance-to-have-democratically-elected-boards-graham-cornes-has-doubt-they-will-take-it/news-story/a245aa9ae5c65e96c466cba3040f0559?utm_campaign=EditorialSB&utm_source=The+Advertiser&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=SocialBakers&fbclid=IwY2xjawGVEKBleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHWxmB0N4lDy5I1-Ee9quFjSBf0MWDzUeOkgz28SbgUEVClE4f9xZd5h6uA_aem_D2X2iB2u_zuJGBu--IYbSQ

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Looks like the club is starting the campaign to not change anything 4 years out

 

[El Doederino]

It's going to be interesting, the board will have to create a separate ruling class of membership. The constitution's default position is that the voting rights are transferred to 'electing members', which is the rank and file membership. But based on Wrinkles' article below, the board won't be allowing members to control the club. I've just pasted in a couple of paragraphs that I reckon tell the story.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/in-2028-the-crows-and-power-will-have-the-chance-to-have-democratically-elected-boards-graham-cornes-has-doubt-they-will-take-it/news-story/a245aa9ae5c65e96c466cba3040f0559?utm_campaign=EditorialSB&utm_source=The+Advertiser&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=SocialBakers&fbclid=IwY2xjawGVEKBleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHWxmB0N4lDy5I1-Ee9quFjSBf0MWDzUeOkgz28SbgUEVClE4f9xZd5h6uA_aem_D2X2iB2u_zuJGBu--IYbSQ

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I love this part:

Surprisingly and disappointingly there was no other candidate with a football background for that position. Neither did Graeme Goodings, the incumbent member-elected board member face opposition from a “football” person when he was successfully re-elected in March this year.

If having more football experience is such an issue with the members, why wasn’t someone with such qualifications encouraged to nominate? Are the members really that uninterested to care? Or do they simply want to criticise after the fact?

So wrinkles is blaming us paying supporters (who have no football background) for no one with football experience putting their hands up for nomination?

I was disappointed with the quality of candidate last voting round. I would love for someone who knows about football, and importantly SUCCESS, to put their hands up. Even someone with non-football but sporting success would be worthwhile. But if these people don't want to nominate, we can only vote for who gets put in front of us - as useless and disappointing as they may be.

 

[1970crow]

I love this part:

Surprisingly and disappointingly there was no other candidate with a football background for that position. Neither did Graeme Goodings, the incumbent member-elected board member face opposition from a “football” person when he was successfully re-elected in March this year.

If having more football experience is such an issue with the members, why wasn’t someone with such qualifications encouraged to nominate? Are the members really that uninterested to care? Or do they simply want to criticise after the fact?

So wrinkles is blaming us paying supporters (who have no football background) for no one with football experience putting their hands up for nomination?

I was disappointed with the quality of candidate last voting round. I would love for someone who knows about football, and importantly SUCCESS, to put their hands up. Even someone with non-football but sporting success would be worthwhile. But if these people don't want to nominate, we can only vote for who gets put in front of us - as useless and disappointing as they may be.

He's just a mouthpiece. Only those that make it through the club's own vetting process get put up as candidates to vote for. He must know that and yet he imposes that criticism on the members who have zero control whatsoever.

 

[George Kramer]

We’d be even more of a basket case than we are now. Have you even read this board?

Take out those that follow the club blindly and you think it would be any worse?

Do we need to list all the errors the clubs made that have been criticised by some on here?

 

[Punchy Bassett]

We’d be even more of a basket case than we are now. Have you even read this board?

Not possible, no finals for 7 years now.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Take out those that follow the club blindly and you think it would be any worse?

Do we need to list all the errors the clubs made that have been criticised by some on here?

And the amount of times they've been proven right?

 

[George Kramer]

And the amount of times they've been proven right?

Yep, I’m staggered that given the shit show we’ve been, numerous **** ups, incorrect calls on selection, sub, gameplan **** ups that someone who agrees with the club more often than not, would have posted that.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Yep, I’m staggered that given the shit show we’ve been, numerous ** ups, incorrect calls on selection, sub, gameplan ** ups that someone who agrees with the club more often than not, would have posted that.

 

[Mostyn]

1 of the last 19 flags has been won by an AFL controlled club.

The Facts About Member Control - The Black And White Noise

David Koch likes to say that he “deals in facts” and “relies on data”. Well, when it comes to AFL controlled clubs, the data is in, and it is irrefutable. Only one of the clubs that The Governance Institute of Australia defined as “AFL owned clubs” has won a premiership since 2005. With Sydney...

theblackandwhitenoise.com

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It's such a small sample size, are you sure it's not correlation instead of causation?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Statistically very unlikely.

What level of evidence would you accept?

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Coopers]

It's such a small sample size, are you sure it's not correlation instead of causation?

The lack of premierships for those teams is "very statistically significant" though. That group of clubs is statistically, verifiably, under achieving.

You could argue there's a different cause, sure. I don't know what that could be though. What else do the AFL owned teams have in common?

 

[1970crow]

The lack of premierships for those teams is "very statistically significant" though. That group of clubs is statistically, verifiably, under achieving.

You could argue there's a different cause, sure. I don't know what that could be though. What else do the AFL owned teams have in common?

2 of the clubs came in from scratch but then the industry, on average, had them sharing a decade of flags between them.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Speaking to people who would know tonight your club has no intention of moving the club to member control in 2028 when your constitution allows it in 2028.

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[bonehilda]

Speaking to people who would know tonight your club has no intention of moving the club to member control in 2028 when your constitution allows it in 2028.

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I wish this was surprising

 

[George Kramer]

Speaking to people who would know tonight your club has no intention of moving the club to member control in 2028 when your constitution allows it in 2028.

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Of course not, why would they voluntarily be held accountable?