Is Brisbane the worst top two side ever?

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PhatBoy said:
how?

how does common sense tell you this when there is literally no historical precedence on which to base it.
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There's no need for historical precedent, looking at the circumstances of the different teams and the season reveals multiple factors that would be more challenging to some clubs than others, that would be detrimental to performance, that would be physically and mentally challenging or disruptive. We dont need 10 years of data to back up every comment.
 
demondavey said:
Mate, seriously, why do people bother with this sh*t? It means nothing dissecting the minuscule details of who they beat and how much by. They’re second on the ladder. They’ve got the points. Come finals, do you think they’ll sit around before the first game telling one another they are the worst second placed side ever?

This means nothing. It’s a nothing point. The only time you take things seriously are in finals. The home and away just judges your ladder position. Cue Bulldogs in 16 and any team that’s won a flag from outside the top 2. Could any team from 1-8 win it? Yes. Is it likely the premier comes from the top 4? Statistically, yes.
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You are in the wrong thread. We are comparing which is the worst team to be second on the ladder. All second on the ladder teams have high win loss ratios.

dont know why you are bringing up the bulldogs in 2016. Thats an example to use to argue why we should not have finals. Has notihng to do with who is the worst 2nd on the ladder side.
 

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Seeds said:
You are in the wrong thread. We are comparing which is the worst team to be second on the ladder. All second on the ladder teams have high win loss ratios.

dont know why you are bringing up the bulldogs in 2016. Thats an example to use to argue why we should not have finals. Has notihng to do with who is the worst 2nd on the ladder side.
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So what is the point of pointing out that fact when the end game is a GF that doesn’t discriminate by a win loss ratio?
 
They have generally been the 5th highest rated squiggle team so far this year (as they were when they finished second last year). Final Siren might have a quick way of finding which second place finisher after H&A had the lowest relative squiggle ranking.

Based on squiggle they look to be the worst since themselves last year, and then Adelaide in 2012.
 
demondavey said:
So what is the point of pointing out that fact when the end game is a GF that doesn’t discriminate by a win loss ratio?
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reaching a grand final is not the end goal of this thread. Its just to rank where teams of similar win loss ratios sit relative to each other.

brisbane has played 3 games outside its state in which it has only one other competitor (gold coast). This is an advantage unseen in afl history. Of the three it played outside of qld it got smashed in two of them and one of them was a neutral game. We know a massive interstate advantage exists.why deny its giving unprecendeted advantages to brisbane? If they were winning by 50 points each week you would say the interstate advantage probably wasnt impacting the win loss ratio. But many of their wins have been close which suggests that without the home advantage they would probably be sitting at the bottom of the top eight. Maybe even outside it.
 
Captain_Bender said:
I would rate Geelong 2019 up there too, awful second half of the season and the first minor premiers to lose the qualifying final since Adelaide in 2005
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Adelaide were probably the best side two years running (05-06) but just choked in the finals. How they didn’t at least make a GF is beyond me. I am pretty sure they had WC on the ropes in the 06 PF and just blew it in the last quarter.
 
Well compared to 10-18. The last two years have been amazing af and I don't think a single Lions fan should actually care what anyone thinks since we should all be in a state of bliss after constant pain for so long.

Are we the best second place side? Hell no. But we are up there for a reason. Half the people commenting in this thread would kill for their mob to be in our position.

Only Richmond and WC at Optus worry me for finals. The rest we can beat on our day.
 
Seeds said:
reaching a grand final is not the end goal of this thread. Its just to rank where teams of similar win loss ratios sit relative to each other.

brisbane has played 3 games outside its state in which it has only one other competitor (gold coast). This is an advantage unseen in afl history. Of the three it played outside of qld it got smashed in two of them and one of them was a neutral game. We know a massive interstate advantage exists.why deny its giving unprecendeted advantages to brisbane? If they were winning by 50 points each week you would say the interstate advantage probably wasnt impacting the win loss ratio. But many of their wins have been close which suggests that without the home advantage they would probably be sitting at the bottom of the top eight. Maybe even outside it.
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We beat GWS at their home ground - how is that neutral ? Get it right. Im not sure Geelong smashed us by the way. They smashed us in one quarter and we won the other three.
 
TheZork said:
Hahahahahaha what even is this. Round 1 was a complete write off, the players didn't even want to be there. Since the restart we've won 10 games and lost 2 in Richmond and Geelong.

Geelong we should've put away in the 1st qtr and had 1 bad qtr for the entire game. Won the other 3.

Richmond we were more than a year younger, coming off a 4 day break vs 6 day and had more players out in key areas than Richmond.

Basically, we are 10-2 post restart after having 1 bad quarter against the Cats and losing a game we were never favourites against the Tigers. If we kicked a bit better this wouldn't even be a conversation. Maybe Gold Coast should try winning some games past round 6?
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I agree with your overall point but it's past the "IF" point of kicking better. It's an area your team is lacking skill in, not an area that is just a magical if.

If North were faster, stronger and had better skills we would be premiers.
 
I don't expect Brisbane to even finish top 2. So I don't think you can say they are the worst side.

But overall the competition is a lot more even and you have sides like Dogs, GWS, Essendon and Collingwood who are mid range in 2020 but are all capable of taking it up to Port, Brisbane, Richmond, West Coast and Geelong - those 5 sides would start favourites against the other 4 yes, but the biggest difference is consistency of performance. St Kilda is an underrated side too - they play a great style that leads to efficient kicking (goals kicked from within 20 meters - Brisbane would still find a way to miss but is a very efficient method for most teams when you've got 2 good ruck forwards and a 200cm KF).

SO to say that Brisbane suck because they only just slipped over the line against sides like St Kilda and only beat GWS interstate etc - under sells the difficulties of managing a list over the course of a very messed up year, and those sides.

I'd take Geelong and Collingwood 2011 over the top 2 sides this year yes, probably Hawthorn and West Coast 2011 too over 3rd and 4th (unless Richmond finish there), but I'd take 5-17th this year over 2011 too. Much better spread in the comp
 

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I find it baffling that people try and answer this question using literally nothing more than 'they haven't travelled much.' So what? What should they have done? Chartered a flight to Cairns before each Gold Coast game just to make it feel like an interstate trip? Just gone out and lost those games? Put industrial air conditioners all around the grounds to make it feel like Victoria?

I'm pretty much yet to read a solitary argument (my apologies if I'm just ignoring them) that actually tries to analyse their quality and standard against everyone else.

Travel has been built up into an almost mythical-standard monster.

i would wager that home ground advantage where the noise of affirmation makes a far bigger difference than sitting in a plane for a few hours. And yes Brisbane have benefited from having more of that than their rivals but it is hardly as though they've been playing in front of heaving 50k crowds baying for blood and smashing the free kick count 25-8 every week.
 
PhatBoy said:
I find it baffling that people try and answer this question using literally nothing more than 'they haven't travelled much.' So what? What should they have done?
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Beat by 5-6 goals awful teams like Melbourne and North Melbourne rather than scrape over the line at the death.

Be competitive against teams below them on the ladder like Richmond and Geelong rather than uncompetitive.
 
David Bondo said:
Beat by 5-6 goals awful teams like Melbourne and North Melbourne rather than scrape over the line at the death.

Be competitive against teams below them on the ladder like Richmond and Geelong rather than uncompetitive.
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Um, they were competitive against us. Port Adelaide weren't. Got a thread for them?
 
David Bondo said:
Had a lot of close games fall their way last year (much like this year) and a fairly easy draw. Were shown up in the finals.

I feel like they are in reality a midtable side but had results fall their way with an easy draw last year and will play 85% of their games in QLD this year.

Good on them, they're a fun side to watch, but they are in reality at the level of a midtable side. It's way Fagan is blowing a gasket more and more he can see they've stopped improving and are only surviving on the back of never leaving their home state.
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2018 we had 6 odd games decided by under 2 goals which we lost. 2019 we ended up turning those close losses to wins. This year our goal kicking has turned to poop.

Not completely disagreeing with you. But not sure we don't necessarily not deserve to be where we are.
 
Milux said:
2018 we had 6 odd games decided by under 2 goals which we lost. 2019 we ended up turning those close losses to wins. This year our goal kicking has turned to poop.

Not completely disagreeing with you. But not sure we don't necessarily not deserve to be where we are.
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Have you won more games than, or an equal amount of games to, with a better percentage than, 16 other sides in the AFL premiership? If yes, then of course you deserve to be where you are.
 
David Bondo said:
Beat by 5-6 goals awful teams like Melbourne and North Melbourne rather than scrape over the line at the death.

Be competitive against teams below them on the ladder like Richmond and Geelong rather than uncompetitive.
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Like Saints, WC, Port (above us), WB? You can't have it 1 way but not the other. If you are going to say something like that, put all the information out there rather than the 2 we have lost (Against Geelong, we had 1 bad quarter but we beat them for the other 3 quarters, l would say that is competitive), just so that it suits your narrative. We have beaten every side in the top 8 except for 2 and we are playing the other next week which we will be favourites in.
 
PhatBoy said:
Have you won more games than, or an equal amount of games to, with a better percentage than, 16 other sides in the AFL premiership? If yes, then of course you deserve to be where you are.
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Well thanks to you lot we are now third (angry emoji).
 

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Is Brisbane the worst top two side ever?

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