Is it the end of our mid-sized forwards?

[roos_fanatic08]

This may seem like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, but I just dont see our mid-sized forwards as a viable option. By half way through the 3rd quarter our mids were absolutely rooted. If we had of had another midfielder, we might have been able to run out the game better. Not that it would have made a difference this week, but it was the same last week. I think Urqs and McMillan could have been a better option than McKinley and Warren.

During the pre-season one of the most positives about many of our games was that one of our mid-sized forwards in Warren, Edwards or Mckinley stood up and kicked a few goals. Although Edwards had good game against WC I'm not too sure he is worth persisting with. He is too inconsistent and with limited rotations available I dont think it is viable having a mid-sized forward who can't offer anything else around the ground.

Warren and Edwards work rate is top notch but they drop too many marks and dont really offer much as far as defensive pressure goes. Finally, I think that oppsition defenders find it way too easy to work off them and find space up the ground, i.e Harry O'Brien today. I'd much rather have another 1-2 midfielders in the side and rotate them all through the forward line, rather than having someone who is so one-dimensional. Thoughts?

 

[DingaRoo]

Id like to see the forward line up somethin like this

Warren-Petrie-McKinley
Thomas-Edwards-Wright

maybe change warren with wright and thats about our most decent forward line at the moment
we definetly need to consider changing Lachie Hansens position, sure he can take a solid grab but he just doest kick goals like when we needed them today. Where Warren and McKinley do we'll with there set shots and present well with there leads, same for Petrie solid unit up forward.

plus with the little crummers like thomas, adams, wright, campbell (inj) and the majority of our mids crumming we should most likely have a decent forward line

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Id like to see the forward line up somethin like this

Warren-Petrie-McKinley
Thomas-Edwards-Wright

maybe change warren with wright and thats about our most decent forward line at the moment
we definetly need to consider changing Lachie Hansens position, sure he can take a solid grab but he just doest kick goals like when we needed them today. Where Warren and McKinley do we'll with there set shots and present well with there leads, same for Petrie solid unit up forward.

plus with the little crummers like thomas, adams, wright, campbell (inj) and the majority of our mids crumming we should most likely have a decent forward line

We would get reemed if that was our forward line. Defenders love lining up on mid size forwards who they know they can run off. I'd rather have 3 extra midfielders rotating through there!

 

[DingaRoo]

the way I see it, with our developing up and coming midfield we need mid/big sized players to body up and take grabs
the midfield stops the opposing defenders on the rebound then deliver into the many targets up forward

but this is looking into the future we still need to develop before any of that happens.
So for now im just throwing suggestions round I spose

 

[Deddy]

my forward line would be this i spose
Warren-Petrie-Thomas
Wright-Edwards-Harvey
I would have lachie hansen in there because he can take a great grab but his inaccuracy has let him down.

 

[Joshen]

To be honest I'd rather Gav on the HFF than any of Warren, McKinley or Edwards he's quick and generally has good skills. His mistakes wouldn't be so costly up there.

 

[Deddy]

To be honest I'd rather Gav on the HFF than any of Warren, McKinley or Edwards he's quick and generally has good skills. His mistakes wouldn't be so costly up there.

Good point gav would be good up there as long as he can kick straight

 

[Tas]

I think Wright has a bright future, Warren possibly but don't think Edwards or McKinley do. I think they can be serviceable but I think you will see a lot more mids will fill spots up forward in the future and they will become part of the extended midfield.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

I think Wright has a bright future, Warren possibly but don't think Edwards or McKinley do. I think they can be serviceable but I think you will see a lot more mids will fill spots up forward in the future and they will become part of the extended midfield.

Wright does most definately, but he isn't one dimensional like the other 3. Wright can go back and play midfield, where as the other 2 don't have the capacity to do anything except play forward. They dont offer enough, so I'd rather someone in there who can be rotated through the midfield. Every single player in collingwood's forward line gets rotated through the midfield, even Mcaffer.

 

[tazaa]

Does everyone remember Warrens first half to the year in 09 and his nab cup game against the Cats in 10. He was a gem.
WTF happened to him??
IMO McKinley and Edwards are forwards suited to a contender not a team like ours.

 

[telemark]

Unless McKinley or Warren have played an ABSOLUTE blinder in the magoos, I'd be tempted to drop Azza & play Freo without any of the trio.

Push Adams, Wright & Ziebell onto the half forward line to cover them. The beauty is that these guys can rotate through the midfield, and Adams/Wright are probably our smartest footballers.

 

[Deddy]

Unless McKinley or Warren have played an ABSOLUTE blinder in the magoos, I'd be tempted to drop Azza & play Freo without any of the trio.

I agree about Azza and Benny McKinley but i think Warren is a decent player he can lead up the ground, take marks, kicks straight, sets up goals for other players,crum off Petrie i think it would be worth it keeping Warren but i dont care about the other two

 

[True North]

Warren was a star in the making until the busted bone. He has never recovered, hopefully he gets it back before it's too late.

 

[RooHooDoo]

To me Edwards is still a FF. In this team that means he really wont get a game unless we have an injury to Petrie.

He can take a beautiful grab, but its what he does next thats the problem. He is slow, and his kicking is not quick or decisive enough to take advantage when he is up the ground.

You really need your hitup player on the wing to be a beautiful user of the ball because its that next kick into the forward 50 that decides if youll get a decent shot on goal or not.

So play him deep or not at all IMO.

Wright, Adams (who is quite strong overhead) and eventually guys like Kennedy and Black who have good skills are the long term answer.

Hopefully we can start to see what Black has to offer in the VFL pretty soon.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

To me Edwards is still a FF. In this team that means he really wont get a game unless we have an injury to Petrie.

He can take a beautiful grab, but its what he does next thats the problem. He is slow, and his kicking is not quick or decisive enough to take advantage when he is up the ground.

My whole point exactly. He is too one dimensional, I know he has worked hard on his endurance so he can work further up the ground, but he is no use to us up there because as soon as he spills the mark or goes to ground the opposition just butchers us.

 

[year of the roo]

Edwards is pretty much exactly where he was when he first came to the club. Time to shelve that experiment, it is taking us no where. Give Warren the season to see if he can fulfill his potential, but he has to be put on warning.

McKinley has a two year deal. He's a $1.01 favourite to be shown the door when it runs out on his output so far.

Ziebell and Wright can be our mid-sized forwards.

 

[DingaRoo]

To me Edwards is still a FF. In this team that means he really wont get a game unless we have an injury to Petrie.

He can take a beautiful grab, but its what he does next thats the problem. He is slow, and his kicking is not quick or decisive enough to take advantage when he is up the ground.

why cant we play two FFs?
I know brisbane done it with Brown and Fev.. didnt work very well.. BUT
Collingwood: Dawes & Cloke
Hawthorn: Buddy & Rough
Richmond: Morton & Reiwolt
Geelong: J Pod & Mooney
St Kilda: Reiwolt & Kozi
and so on...

they dont always line 2 key position forwards up aside each other and the 'ruckmen rest at FF' is always there for a big target up forward. but I would like to see us have to good targets up forward that can body up and take a grab 20-30m out and having a crack
Edwards doesnt do much in forward line defense, but he does take a solid grab and can kick a set shot but not from a fair distance, which is why hes FF material. only there to take grabs and kick us goals.
and Petrie lined up next to him. Petries just a sensational player, we need to keep in as a key forward and probably give Majak Daw a crack to help Goldy out in the ruck.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

To me Edwards is still a FF. In this team that means he really wont get a game unless we have an injury to Petrie.

He can take a beautiful grab, but its what he does next thats the problem. He is slow, and his kicking is not quick or decisive enough to take advantage when he is up the ground.

You really need your hitup player on the wing to be a beautiful user of the ball because its that next kick into the forward 50 that decides if youll get a decent shot on goal or not.

So play him deep or not at all IMO.

This exactly, I'm afraid. Quentin Lynch at WC is the same. Getting the ball up between wing and HF, or even on the wing, and then doesn't know what to do with it next. I mean you even see the same problem with (N) Riewoldt sometimes - gets the ball 80m out and nobody to go to. Except if there is a target like Kosi he'll usually hit it, or at least make the best possible decision. Not so with Azza.

Tazza may be right - Edwards and McKinley (if he gets on his game) are more suited to a team that is pushing for top 4.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Im pretty happy that other people see the same as me. I thought I'd be alone with this view. But seriously, with the modern game we need to have as many mids in the side as possible, so we can rotate them through the forward line and half back line. The sub rule really hurts 2nd ruckman and that mid-sized forward. I'd stick with Petrie and Hansen, then with the like of Wright, Adams, Boomer, Flash, Thomas, Anthony at their feet. Rotate Cunnington and Ziebell through there too. We know both of them loved a goal in their juniors

 

[The Big H]

Our overall structure isn't quite right. For mine, Pederson comes in for Edwards as the second ruckman/swingman. Petrie and Hanson stay forward. I'd also look at possibly Ben Ross as the sub for peraps Atley, or even Zeibell.

 

[year of the roo]

Our overall structure isn't quite right. For mine, Pederson comes in for Edwards as the second ruckman/swingman. Petrie and Hanson stay forward. I'd also look at possibly Ben Ross as the sub for peraps Atley, or even Zeibell.

Atley offers something different to our midfield, a bit of run and carry with plenty of leg speed. He's almost our third chosen midfielder behind Swallow and Adams. We have to keep playing him, at least until Basti is back fit and firing.

Garlett, Adams, Anthony and Cunnington are ahead of Ross. Obviously as is Wells, Harvey and Swallow. He needs to dislodge one of those blokes to get a game.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Atley offers something different to our midfield, a bit of run and carry with plenty of leg speed. He's almost our third chosen midfielder behind Swallow and Adams. We have to keep playing him, at least until Basti is back fit and firing.

Garlett, Adams, Anthony and Cunnington are ahead of Ross. Obviously as is Wells, Harvey and Swallow. He needs to dislodge one of those blokes to get a game.

Ross will be in the side in no time. A couple of more games at VFL level and he will be right to go. The perfect sub IMO, because he offers dash but can play forward or back. I dont think we need to drop any of those midfielders to fit in Bastinac or Even when Greenwood comes in. Bring in two extra mids at the expense of our mid-forward, and someone who isn't performing

 

[Tas]

I still believe we need someone like Petrie to remain very deep, around the goal square who really doesn't lead out past the 25m mark, it is not because he lacks the range but we need someone here that contests in the corridor and guys like LT/Campbell and Boomer focus on crumbing off his contesting.

That gives you scope to have the half-forward line work closer to goal.

The problem we have had with Edwards, McKinley and Warren is they are so far out of goal they are useless most of the time. Someone asked what happened to Warren since when he first started playing. It is not the injuries, it is where he gets the ball now. He was getting the ball 25-35m out of goal, he is now getting it 60-75m out of goal. He has no hurt factor that far out of goal.

There is scope for medium forwards who get the ball 35-45m out of goal on their flanks or leading into the corridor if there is room, but they are useless if they can't get the ball in this area or if our midfield is really poor at getting the ball inside 50.

Edwards is more a short FF, he doesn't play like a medium size flanker. Not sure about McKinley but Warren has the tricks to play the role well and Wright is made for the position, he kicks and/or sets up a lot of goals for us. He still needs the ball to enter forward 50 with some purpose though.

 

[coopers pale]

I think our mid forwards are getting a tough run because our KPP's (Hansen & Petrie) aren't working hard enough to open up space for them to run into, nor are they seen as threatening enough (as in, capable of kicking a bag of 5-6 goals) that they would draw a double team, thus freeing up the mids.

As such we have our mid sized forwards 'hitting up' wide and to the wings to get the ball (while being closely marked, unlike mid forwards on some other teams) and then they don't have a great deal to kick to even if they do get it.

Quality KPP's is what we are lacking, without that, it's hard to measure our mid forwards.

I think Petrie would be better at CHB these days, with Tarrant and Hansen rotating between CHF and FF, with Hansen working a lot harder off the ball (the way Reiwoldt does) to wear his opponent out, and open up space for himself or others to lead into.

Oh, and I rate Warren 6.5/10, Edwards 6/10 and McKinley-too early to call. So I'm unconvinced about any of them in the longer term.