Analysis Is Leppa the Right Man for the Job?

[Skoob]

I agree with you but its not always the case. Lions premiership years we had Shattock, Hadley, Cupido, Headland and McLaren off the top of my head. I think they all were highly rated youngsters.

Not sure I get your point.
Cupido was a very exciting young player who I thought developed nicely. He kicked 40 goals in his 3rd year (at Essendon by then) Struck down with injury, he never recovered form at Essendon. Either clubs' fault, or just Damian?
Shattock was a premiership player, proving another argument that you don't have to be super to contribute.
All highly rated, and Headland in particular developed well here and failed when he left. I think those examples show flaws in highly rated players, not a failure to develop in a good team.
Those examples you gave prove the point somewhat because they looked good here (at times, some more than others) but failed at their new clubs. Headland for example was a #1 pick and looked like it here. At an average Fremantle, he failed.

My point was that the kid who is directed by an experienced team on game day and hit up with clean disposal as well as good players adjusting to receive average disposals will look and play better than the same guy forced to play with 10 others just like him. Then there are the ones who just don't make it.

Have a look how many times people have complained about one of our youngsters being "robbed of a rising star nomination, sometimes by an average type. That average type playing in a better team looks better and sometimes does better, because of the team around him.

 

[josephs_79]

Not fixed up
1)Development
2)Game plan
3)competitiveness
4)Performance

Again those 4, while part of the coaches area to deal with, having under resourced areas as mentioned above are probably the main reasons these aren't showing. I reckon you could give any good coach the resources we have and they would fail.

 

[snooplions]

Not fixed up
1)Development
2)Game plan
3)competitiveness
4)Performance

Funny how everyone loves Leppitsch now hey. It reminds of when a celebrity dies and suddenly no one has a bad word to say about them.

 

[M Malice]

Not fixed up
1)Development
2)Game plan
3)competitiveness
4)Performance

to varying degrees yes-
1) by and large i think the young fellas have developed as well as can be expected considering the lack of form from a large portion of our senior core.
2) Leppa wants to play run and gun, unfortunately our group is not capable probably because of too much youth on the field all at once.
3) this is the part that has me scratching my head and has me very conflicted re Leppas retention, one minute i think he should go the next stay.
4) agree- see point 3.

if we can't trade in a couple of experienced KPD this off season and have a reasonable run with injury the next coach will not do much better IMO.

 

[Skoob]

Not fixed up
1)Development
2)Game plan
3)competitiveness
4)Performance

Why don't you add
5)Results
6)Wins
7)less losses
8)better at playing

to that list of same things?

 

[notliondown]

There definitely seems to be a shift towards keeping Leppa, or maybe the pro-Leppa camp are just being louder lately.

I think it's more about a resignation of what's about to unfold and trying to justify the costs of it - to every aspect of the club.

If blame is to be apportioned it needs to be justified and realistic not some whitewash, everything's good, nothing to see here, problem solved, move along approach.

Call it a pathetic attempt for the process to be held accountable if you like.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Can we blame Leppa for the increased level of sub-standard posts on the Lions big footy too?

 

[Fatcat08]

I will be even more disappointed if Leppa goes now than I was when Vossy went a few years ago.

As much as I idolise Vossy I believe he needed at least one year under Leigh Matthews or another senior coach before being handed the reigns. Leppa has had some tutelage at a club seemingly content to hover around the middle of the ladder forever, and has first hand experience with that sort of frustrating time wastage, certainly contributed to his wish to rebuild.

We all know Leppa needs a few more blokes to embrace and display the commitment shown by Mitch Robinson, Matheson etcetera, if we are to see more quarters played in the vein of Q2 against Geelong on the weekend. How do we expect any coach to get the best out of their players when the club hierarchy displays cowardice and treachery when dealing with the very future of their Head Coach. And they wonder why the group first round picks wanted out last time.

If the club is worried about losing fans and membership numbers after a hard-to-watch run of games, it will be interesting to see how they react to a mass exodus of members due to an even harder-to-watch shafting of the second club legend in a handful of years. The club can't expect any supporter loyalty if it is so weak it is willing to renege, flip-flop, or abandon their word, to pander to the whims of impatient whiners who lack the balls to stay the prescribed course.

I so hope our club has the guts to do what it takes to retain RESPECT.

I take umbrage at a few points made here.

Firstly there seems to be an assumption that the prescribed course didn't involve certain milestone markers along the way that needed to be met to indicate that we were indeed still on the course. And that the original course lasted longer than a 3 year period. If the agreed timeframe between the board and the coach was for 4 or even 5 years then the initial contract term would have been for that. Clearly there was an agreed course for 3 years with certain targets during that time, the fact that there was a contract renewal before this agreed period ended and a review of the progress made was completed is probably the biggest issue I have with the board. I can't see for the life of me how many of of those would have been met, mitigating circumstances aside.

This then flows into the whole flip-flop, abandon their word argument and the branding of people who question or complain about where we are as whiners or being impatient. Thats a pretty unfair label to give to the large majority of supporters on here who have been very patient for signs of obvious improvement to reveal themselves. That people are questioning where this improvement lies isn't whining, its perfectly legitimate.

 

[Fatcat08]

Can we blame Leppa for the increased level of sub-standard posts on the Lions big footy too?

absolutely, we all know that more losses equals more drinking which leads to worse posts. You're welcome

 

[jackess]

to varying degrees yes-
1) by and large i think the young fellas have developed as well as can be expected considering the lack of form from a large portion of our senior core.
2) Leppa wants to play run and gun, unfortunately our group is not capable probably because of too much youth on the field all at once.
3) this is the part that has me scratching my head and has me very conflicted re Leppas retention, one minute i think he should go the next stay.
4) agree- see point 3.

if we can't trade in a couple of experienced KPD this off season and have a reasonable run with injury the next coach will not do much better IMO.

If our development continues at this rate then we're not making the top 8 in at least the next 5 years. That would be unacceptable and make Leppas rebuild an utter disaster and place it in the Melbourne or Carlton pre Roos and Bolton type rebuilds.

I think the club has made it clear that development needs a lot of work.

 

[notliondown]

I take umbrage at a few points made here.

Firstly there seems to be an assumption that the prescribed course didn't involve certain milestone markers along the way that needed to be met to indicate that we were indeed still on the course. And that the original course lasted longer than a 3 year period. If the agreed timeframe between the board and the coach was for 4 or even 5 years then the initial contract term would have been for that. Clearly there was an agreed course for 3 years with certain targets during that time, the fact that there was a contract renewal before this agreed period ended and a review of the progress made was completed is probably the biggest issue I have with the board. I can't see for the life of me how many of of those would have been met, mitigating circumstances aside.

This then flows into the whole flip-flop, abandon their word argument and the branding of people who question or complain about where we are as whiners or being impatient. Thats a pretty unfair label to give to the large majority of supporters on here who have been very patient for signs of obvious improvement to reveal themselves. That people are questioning where this improvement lies isn't whining, its perfectly legitimate.

Maybe that extension, was, to account for mitigating circumstances such as sustained injuries to key players but? Or maybe a lack of delivery on things the board promised too?

And if that was the case why does that potentially no longer count?

If it's ok to accept the wisdom of the initial contract then a extension granted less than 8 months ago should be given the same credence.

Surely the role of the board is to look past the questioning of all outside influences given they should possess 100% of the facts... not withstanding justified impatience on our behalf?

 

[Fatcat08]

Maybe that review was to account for mitigating circumstances such as sustained injuries to key players? Or maybe a lack of delivery on things the board promised too?

And if that was the case why does that potentially no longer count?

If it's ok to accept the wisdom of the initial contract then a extension granted less than 8 months ago should be given the same credence.

Surely the role of the board is to look past the questioning of all outside influences given they should possess 100% of the facts... not withstanding justified impatience on our behalf?

Who said it doesn't count? I said I had an issue with it not that it didn't count.

As for the last para they probably are looking past the questioning of outside influences, not sure how that has any relation to me having issue with being called an impatient whinger just because I want to question where we're at as a club and what role the coach has played in that. not sure how you managed to put those two together?

 

[T Rick]

Funny how everyone loves Leppitsch now hey. It reminds of when a celebrity dies and suddenly no one has a bad word to say about them.

This is extremely disrespectful to Leppa and posters such as myself who are genuinely torn by this decision. I do not have a bad word to say about Leppa (or Vossy) and I am proud of that position...disappointment with where we are at as a footy club is another matter.

 

[Skoob]

If our development continues at this rate then we're not making the top 8 in at least the next 5 years. That would be unacceptable and make Leppas rebuild an utter disaster and place it in the Melbourne or Carlton pre Roos and Bolton type rebuilds.

I think the club has made it clear that development needs a lot of work.

It's very unlikely that development of anything maintains a constant or steady rate. As a team improves (particularly from such a low base) the improvement is exponentially better/faster (unless you're Richmond, or fail to address a Melbourne FC like culture).

 

[BlackGun1]

You're right, they're not. What is more damning is the lack of development in the youngsters over the past 3 years, the regression of key, more experienced players and the complete inability to play to any sort of game plan including key skills like defensive run.

Completely and utterly agree with this point and I think this is the most concise way to rebut any argument of keeping Leppa on board.

Whilst it has been said time and time and time again, obviously the above is not all Leppitsch's fault. He unfortunately took the helm in a toxic period that followed the Voss departure and the years of 2014-2015 result wise could be easily excused as he and others put together the pieces following the rancid Anus Johnson dictatorship.

However, with the embarrassment of a year we've had in 2016 to which a 1996 Fitzroy side would go very close to being more competitive than us, it is simply impossible to keep him around. I love Leppa and respect him so much - he has handled himself well in the media and has gone out every week and shown up under what must be a distressing and abominably intrusive spotlight on his job that would probably border on illegal in the normal workplace.

In this AFL world though, and with the state our club is in, it would be extremely difficult to sell hope for 2017 and beyond to anyone outside our die-hard supporters with Leppa at the helm. This is professional sport and in professional sport, the Head Coach is (unfairly) the face of all that goes on inside and outside the footy club to all observers, other players and officials included. I seriously just cannot imagine a world where other players (draftees and mature aged outside players) and officials would see any sort of hope coming to our organisation with Leppa coaching.

I think this is what it comes down to - the fairytale of getting Sharpless and co to "stick it" to the media I think only exists in cushy feel good sports movies. This is AFL and this is just what has to happen for our club.

 

[lions27]

It's safe to say that if the board knew we would have such a bad season then there is no way they would have given Leppa a 1 year extension.
Swann himself said 6-8 wins at the start of the year. We haven't gone close to that and have been pretty non competitive in the majority of matches.
I like Leppa and I believe he has played a big part in stabilising our club over the last couple of years.
Now we just need a new coach and support personnel to get the most out of our young squad.

 

[jackess]

It's very unlikely that development of anything maintains a constant or steady rate. As a team improves (particularly from such a low base) the improvement is exponentially better/faster (unless you're Richmond, or fail to address a Melbourne FC like culture).

I would have thought players improve at a faster rate at the beginning of their careers and the rate of improvement decreases given the same environment.

 

[T Rick]

how quickly do the leaks start after the meeting tonight? who is the media person most likely to get an "official" leak?

Browndog

 

[T Rick]

Paps has been injured most of the year in one form or another, as have Robertson (but showed good signs when playing IMO) and Freeman to varying degrees. Taylor has suffered contractitis.

Maybe some or all have suffered stalled development but this year really isn't the year to judge it by.

Contractitus - had to read that a couple of times - just briliant

 

[jackess]

I'm actually not 100% in the sack Leppa basket. I think given there is no indication that he has done anything all that well in 3 seasons means that he most likely is a poor coach. I also think his bottom out rebuild plan and 180 degree switch in playing slow footy to playing fast footy shows that he struggles with the basics of team direction.

Without an outstanding candidate giving him a season to fix his own mess might not be the worst idea. It could backfire spectacularly but on the other hand miraculously we could start playing ok footy and could give the next coach something to work with.

 

[Squizz89]

Sorry to bring the mood down, but I'll just leave this here in case anyone forgot. And again like I've said all year is the main reason I believe a change is needed...

 

[notliondown]

Who said it doesn't count? I said I had an issue with it not that it didn't count.

As for the last para they probably are looking past the questioning of outside influences, not sure how that has any relation to me having issue with being called an impatient whinger just because I want to question where we're at as a club and what role the coach has played in that. not sure how you managed to put those two together?

Sorry... I misunderstood the first part of your post... I read it as a dismissal. Apologies for that.

As for the impatient whiners I don't agree with the terminology at all... especially given that I think most those advocating stability would feel exactly the same thing at times.

Again maybe I've missed your point but what I was alluding to was the weight that questioning should hold in the decision making progress given the first part of your post talking about contracts.

 

[notliondown]

I would have thought players improve at a faster rate at the beginning of their careers and the rate of improvement decreases given the same environment.

It's weird because I was contemplating the exact opposite.

Surely once you have your skills locked away fine tuning things like reading the play, anticipating opponents and opportunities, using your initiative and leading and adapting to team mates becomes your focus and that's what separates NEAFL players and AFL ones ?

 

[Mr Ripper]

Can we blame Leppa for the increased level of sub-standard posts on the Lions big footy too?

No, that's entirely down to ZoBlitz.

 

[josephs_79]

Sorry to bring the mood down, but I'll just leave this here in case anyone forgot. And again like I've said all year is the main reason I believe a change is needed...

*To save space removed pic*

Show me how probably the youngest side in the afl with the worst facilities and support structure of any team and the most injuries with no depth at the moment because of age could have done any better? Tell me any coach who could of come in this year specifically and done any better with the calves and tin shed they would of had at their disposal?

Did anyone not see glimpses of a team ready to take the next step if it gets the chance to click and put it all together? Was there no improvement what so ever that anyone's only grading mark on a baby team is the smashing we copped this year?