Is Nick Daicos The Best First Year Player Of All Time?

[beerbandit]

gouki88 VinnieB loki04

Copeland Trophy
1. Jack Crisp 291 votes
2. Scott Pendlebury 276 votes
3. Darcy Moore 269 votes
4. Jeremy Howe 266 votes
5. Steele Sidebottom 265 votes
6. Patrick Lipinski 259 votes
7. Nick Daicos 258 votes
8. Josh Daicos 249 votes
8. Brayden Maynard 249 votes
10. Jordan De Goey 231 votes

For a bloke who was pumped up by some in the media as the "best first year player of all time", it's somewhat of a surprise to see that Nick Daicos could only finish 7th in Collingwood's B&F award (behind Howe, Sidebottom and Lipinski). It wasn't like he missed games which is normally an excuse for players finishing down the list in their club's best and fairest. Daicos played every game!


Care to share your thoughts on why he didn't poll better???


From memory, Cyril Rioli finished 6th in Hawthorn's 2008 B&F... The '08 Hawks were a better team than Collingwood. Finished 2nd on the ladder with 17 wins and beat the unbeatable Cats in the Grand Final.

We've seen other 1st year players finish in the top 3 or 4 of their club's B&F


Nick Daicos is obviously gonna be a star. But the pro-Magpies hype and pro-Daicos hype was laid on pretty thick this year by the media.

You still not over the fact he shat all over Newcombe in the Rising Star?

 

[gouki88]

You still not over the fact he shat all over Newcombe in the Rising Star?

This’ll be like Blues fans clinging to Murphy over Pendles for years

 

[BringFevBack2021]

This’ll be like Blues fans clinging to Murphy over Pendles for years

Murphys best year is better than Pendles best year

Pendles career is MUCH better than Murphys career as a whole

Pendlebury is a dynamic, tall, silky midfielder who is still producing brilliant football today. Pendles runs both ways and has had many elite seasons of football.

Murphy is a front-half, aggressive, small and creative midfielder who produced two or three elite seasons with one of them being absurdly good.

Anyone who thinks Murphy is better than Pendles is absolutely kidding themselves.
EDIT:
It’s 6x AA’s to Pendles and 1x AA to Murphy!!!!

 

[Ginnieboy]

He’s certainly up there as the best first season ever, very subjective though.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

He’s certainly up there as the best first season ever, very subjective though.

I don’t get why it’s so controversial he is certainly in the conversation as the best first year player ever

 

[PieLebo87]

Could I throw Nathan Buckleys 1993 season with Brisbane? Won the rising star that year.

Brad Hardie 1st season in the VFL got him a Brownlow medal

Absolutely no-one talks about Nathan Buckley’s first season, probably because it was with the Bears, and they won 4 of 20 games. Probably makes it even more remarkable that he polled 14 votes and had 3 BOG games.

5 games of 20 and 2. Kicked 21 goals for the year and averaged over just under 23 possessions a game.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Murphys best year is better than Pendles best year

Pendles career is MUCH better than Murphys career as a whole

Pendlebury is a dynamic, tall, silky midfielder who is still producing brilliant football today. Pendles runs both ways and has had many elite seasons of football.

Murphy is a front-half, aggressive, small and creative midfielder who produced two or three elite seasons with one of them being absurdly good.

Anyone who thinks Murphy is better than Pendles is absolutely kidding themselves.
EDIT:
It’s 6x AA’s to Pendles and 1x AA to Murphy!!!!

I very much doubt anyone does today, but maybe in 2013.

 

[PrinceCharles]

I didn't get to watch much football this year, but purely looking at numbers Walsh has him pipped very slightly. Do people see them as comparable?

 

[PieLebo87]

I didn't get to watch much football this year, but purely looking at numbers Walsh has him pipped very slightly. Do people see them as comparable?

It’s fairly close, but Daicos pips Walsh I reckon.

Nick Daicos and Sam Walsh AFL Stats Comparison

Nick Daicos and Sam Walsh AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[PieLebo87]

Murphys best year is better than Pendles best year

Pendles career is MUCH better than Murphys career as a whole

Which season was this?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I like the way Daicos played the season right out at a high level, never looking tired at any point. I don’t think too many first year youngsters do that. He just looks a really good little player. His season for mine qualifies as an brilliant first season and a very good season for even an experienced half back/winger, half forward. He averaged a bit under 24 disposals once you remove his kick ins. 6.4 contested possessions is decent for a half back but it does show he was sensibly kept out of the contest a lot, which is where the 1st year guns normally get battered, hampering their ability to see out the season.

Matt Rowell

18

Matt Rowell

Age

23

Ht

180cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

had his first season badly curtailed by injury only playing 4 full games. He was pretty unanimously BOG in 3 of those. Imo that should have been enough to win the Rising Star but the panel looked at it differently. I cannot recall any other 18 yo approaching that sort of dominance, though it was obviously not sustained across a whole season due to his shoulder injury. But Nikos 11 Brownlow votes from 22 whole games - which is bloody good, v Rowell 9 from 4 whole games gives you an idea of the level Rowell was operating at in comparison.

I look forward to watching how both these guys develop in the future, Daicos through gritted teeth perhaps due to playing for the Filth.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Love the Daicos brothers.

Nick's debut season sensational, best of all time probably a stretch; things get lost in the mists ...

Actually; how was Peter's debut season? I know Peter Daicos suffered early-career knee issues when knee issues were still potentially career-ending. He was more a genuine on-baller early in his career - a centreman - before honing his craft as a crafty forward later on.

 

[Osho]

Daicos is brilliant.

There was once a skinny Tassy lad, nicknamed Rolls Royce, heard a lot about him as a young player, thought I'd check him out some ... from WikiP ...

Hart started the 1966 VFL season playing in the Richmond under-19s coached by Ray "Slug" Jordon. During the season, Jordon made the mistake of including an unregistered player for a match. As punishment the VFL stripped the under-19s team of half its premiership points, causing the team to miss the finals.[4] Hart had been the leading goalkicker for the under-19s[citation needed] when late in the season he was promoted to the reserves and played in the Reserves Grand Final against Collingwood, on a half forward flank. With just seconds to go, Collingwood led by one point when Hart took a mark about 60 metres out from goal. He promptly put a torpedo punt, his preferred kick at the time, through the goals to give Richmond the lead, and the siren sounded shortly afterward.[4] During the off-season, Hart continued working on his physique and created an air of anticipation with his performances in the practice matches leading into the 1967 season.[citation needed]

1967 - A Dream DebutEdit​

In the first half of the twentieth century, Richmond had been a powerhouse club with a large supporter base, but the club fell on hard times in the 1950s. A rejuvenation of the club began with a move to the Melbourne Cricket Ground in 1965 and an extensive recruiting program, which included the young Hart.

Hart made his senior VFL debut in the opening round of the 1967 VFL season against Essendon at the MCG, playing at full forward. Although he got plenty of the ball in attack, he disappointed with his inaccurate goal-kicking, with three goals and seven behinds.[4]

Subsequently, Hart taught himself to use the drop punt when kicking for goal,[4] and became one of the best exponents of the kick at a time when many players still favoured flat punts or drop kicks. In Round 4, he kicked an amazing goal, which bounced along the ground for the last thirty metres before going through, to win a match with Carlton.[citation needed] After only four games Hart was selected to play for the Victorian Second team, but a week before the game, Ron Barassi pulled out with injury and Hart was promoted. He booted seven goals playing at full-forward against Western Australia.[5] With the Tigers on top of the ladder and heading for their first finals appearance since 1947, Hart was shifted to centre half forward, the position where he would make his name.

The Tigers went into the finals without a single player who had played finals before, which seemed the only chink in the team's armour. However, in the semi final against Carlton, Hart led the way with a best afield performance and booted six goals. Two weeks later, Richmond played a Grand Final against Geelong considered as one of the classic matches of Australian football. Hart gathered 13 kicks and six handpasses but it was one of his seven marks that remains eternally etched in the memory. In the dying minutes, Hart rose above his opponent to grab the ball from a kick in by Geelong's Roy West and helped keep the momentum going the Tigers' way. In the end, Richmond hung on to win by nine points to end a 24-year premiership drought. Richmond's emphasis on attacking and kicking high scores became the new trend, and within a few years the game would be much more offense-orientated. To cap an extraordinary first year, Hart won the club goalkicking award, was voted recruit of the year and represented Australia in Ireland in the first contact between Australian and Gaelic football.[6][7]

 

[Osho]

And there was this bloke who had a pretty good debut. I think he may now have an award named after 'm.

Again from wikiP:

and he took a mark with his boots above my head.

Coleman did not climb up packs. He got to those amazing heights with a spring. I am nearly 6ft 5in [viz., 195 cm] and Coleman jumped over my head, not once, but often. He did not leap sideways like an Olympic jumper, but straight up. And don't forget he had to grab the ball when he got there and land safely.
— Miller, Petraitis & Jeremiah, 1997, p.32

He usually converted from most of his set shots by way of long, flat punt kick. Notwithstanding this, however, he was also an excellent drop kick. Ted Rippon, Coleman's former business associate and vice-president of the football club, recalled that Coleman had kicked 14 goals in a match in Perth against a WA side, and six of those goals had been drop-kicked against the wind.[9]


John Coleman taking a spectacular mark over North Melbourne's full-back, Vic Lawrence, on Saturday, 30 May 1953, with Essendon's Stan Booth waiting for "the crumbs".[10]
Coleman capped his brilliant debut year in storybook fashion: he booted his one hundredth goal in the dying moments of a record Grand Final win over Carlton. As of 2022, he remains the only player to kick one hundred goals in his first year.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

And there was this bloke who had a pretty good debut. I think he may now have an award named after 'm.

Again from wikiP:



He usually converted from most of his set shots by way of long, flat punt kick. Notwithstanding this, however, he was also an excellent drop kick. Ted Rippon, Coleman's former business associate and vice-president of the football club, recalled that Coleman had kicked 14 goals in a match in Perth against a WA side, and six of those goals had been drop-kicked against the wind.[9]


John Coleman taking a spectacular mark over North Melbourne's full-back, Vic Lawrence, on Saturday, 30 May 1953, with Essendon's Stan Booth waiting for "the crumbs".[10]
Coleman capped his brilliant debut year in storybook fashion: he booted his one hundredth goal in the dying moments of a record Grand Final win over Carlton. As of 2022, he remains the only player to kick one hundred goals in his first year.

Great gets Hart and Coleman. Hart was 19yo throughout his debut season, but was a month younger than Daicos on debut. Coleman was 20yo throughout his debut season, so a little more mature. Coleman and Hart were more or less instantly the best players in the competition upon debut, or right up there.

Daicos is a long way short of that but it is very difficult to see any 19-20yo walking straight in and taking the competition by the scruff of the neck these days. It is probably worth noting Daicos is about as old as you can be without being eligible for the previous draft, being born in January. Had he been born 4 days earlier he’d have been playing in 2021. At that age that can make a little bit of difference compared to say a first year player born later in the year. Daicos is only 3-4 months younger than a host of players drafted the year before, such as Max Holmes, Jake Bowey and Maurice Rioli.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Which season was this?

2011 - he was a freak that year. Won the AFLCA, didn’t poll well in the Brownlow but that year is the best year I’ve seen a Carlton player play in my memory IMO

 

[HairyO]

He was 11 votes off finishing 3rd. 7th in a prelim year is an excellent result.

Not sure what your hissy fit is over?

And 9 votes ahead of 9th.

I didnt see a hissy fit. I saw someone showing why the answer to the topic question is a definite no.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Michael Barlow was mature aged but his first season was on track to be truly incredible before he broke his leg. 33 disposals and two goals in his first game.

 

[Osho]

Great gets Hart and Coleman. Hart was 19yo throughout his debut season, but was a month younger than Daicos on debut. Coleman was 20yo throughout his debut season, so a little more mature. Coleman and Hart were more or less instantly the best players in the competition upon debut, or right up there.

Daicos is a long way short of that but it is very difficult to see any 19-20yo walking straight in and taking the competition by the scruff of the neck these days. It is probably worth noting Daicos is about as old as you can be without being eligible for the previous draft, being born in January. Had he been born 4 days earlier he’d have been playing in 2021. At that age that can make a little bit of difference compared to say a first year player born later in the year. Daicos is only 3-4 months younger than a host of players drafted the year before, such as Max Holmes, Jake Bowey and Maurice Rioli.

Saw Hart play plenty. Had a knack for winning games at the death with a quarter to go. Tiges would have loved him in the side this year with all those close games.

Never saw John, my father and his mates, however, did, and I was indoctrinated very early about Coleman, who they said wasn't the best foreward ever, just the best player ever. Can't argue with them, long gone dad and those very raucous blokes and their roll your owns and carlton draught.

Apparently Coleman struggled a tad before his breakout, noone would kick it to him!! Fancy fcuking that?
Then in his 1st snr game kicks 12. TWELVE!

 

[VinnieB]

It's a pity Rowell did his shoulder because he was in the conversation for the Brownlow at the time, and polled very well as expected in the games he played. Could he keep it up for the whole season? Averaged just over 20 possessions as game, with a large % of handballs. I'd argue being at the foot of a ruck contest puts you in the best position to get your hands on the ball. You can see from his high number of tackles which are probably mostly form stoppages. As a strong bodied midfielder, he can stand up in a tackle and get the handball out. You can even see his past couple of years since where he is a tackling machine which I suspect is mainly around stoppages.

Daicos' strength is his composure and what he does with the ball. He makes things happen and constantly puts the team in a more attacking position which is not an easy thing to do. He does take on the responsibility on occasion kicking the ball out, but that's a testament to him being one of the best users of the ball. You only have to watch the games and see how he even creates opportunities from kickouts late in the game. He stood out in a team that was a couple points away from playing in the GF.

Incidentally, that Carey midfield would have been strong with Rowell, Anderson and Daicos in it.

Is he the best 1st year player of all time? I don't know and don't really care. I just don't find these labels relevant. But he has an exciting future, particularly when his strength develops and moves into the midfield.

 

[Breretonisahood]

Absolutely no-one talks about Nathan Buckley’s first season, probably because it was with the Bears, and they won 4 of 20 games. Probably makes it even more remarkable that he polled 14 votes and had 3 BOG games.

5 games of 20 and 2. Kicked 21 goals for the year and averaged over just under 23 possessions a game.

View attachment 1523600

Trouble is, it seems that for many BF posters that if it didn’t happen in the last 20 yrs, it’s not worth talking about. Apparently all players pre-2000 were just fat, slow, amatuerish spuds. On point though, Buckley in 93 was HUGE!

 

[Fadge]

I like the way Daicos played the season right out at a high level, never looking tired at any point. I don’t think too many first year youngsters do that. He just looks a really good little player. His season for mine qualifies as an brilliant first season and a very good season for even an experienced half back/winger, half forward. He averaged a bit under 24 disposals once you remove his kick ins. 6.4 contested possessions is decent for a half back but it does show he was sensibly kept out of the contest a lot, which is where the 1st year guns normally get battered, hampering their ability to see out the season.

Matt Rowell had his first season badly curtailed by injury only playing 4 full games. He was pretty unanimously BOG in 3 of those. Imo that should have been enough to win the Rising Star but the panel looked at it differently. I cannot recall any other 18 yo approaching that sort of dominance, though it was obviously not sustained across a whole season due to his shoulder injury. But Nikos 11 Brownlow votes from 22 whole games - which is bloody good, v Rowell 9 from 4 whole games gives you an idea of the level Rowell was operating at in comparison.

I look forward to watching how both these guys develop in the future, Daicos through gritted teeth perhaps due to playing for the Filth.

Rowell should have won the Rising Star in his 4 game debut year, finally something that you and I agree on!

 

[Fadge]

Saw Hart play plenty. Had a knack for winning games at the death with a quarter to go. Tiges would have loved him in the side this year with all those close games.

Never saw John, my father and his mates, however, did, and I was indoctrinated very early about Coleman, who they said wasn't the best foreward ever, just the best player ever. Can't argue with them, long gone dad and those very raucous blokes and their roll your owns and carlton draught.

Apparently Coleman struggled a tad before his breakout, noone would kick it to him!! Fancy fcuking that?
Then in his 1st snr game kicks 12. TWELVE!

I too have Coleman as the GOAT.

I reckon if he had had played 200 games, it would be indisputable, but the body of work over his 98 games is enough for me.

 

[PieLebo87]

2011 - he was a freak that year. Won the AFLCA, didn’t poll well in the Brownlow but that year is the best year I’ve seen a Carlton player play in my memory IMO

Wasn’t even better than Pendlebury in that year alone.

Scott Pendlebury and Marc Murphy AFL Stats Comparison

Scott Pendlebury and Marc Murphy AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Osho]

I too have Coleman as the GOAT.

I reckon if he had had played 200 games, it would be indisputable, but the body of work over his 98 games is enough for me.

Multilanted, coach and business as well.