Is North Melbourne passing on Logan McDonald going to be the 2021 version of the Bulldogs passing on Buddy for Ryan Griffin

[Del191229]

It was sarcasm.

Sydney would demand a King's ransom for McDonald.

I'm expecting for McDonald to sign a new contract sometime over the next few months (understand the delay, his manager would be an idiot to rush a new contract, especially if he comes back into the team and has some strong performances in the first few months).

Yeah, I'd back your program and culture to keep him ... for now at least. Going home at 27 is a different beast.

Albeit Jordan Dawson leaving indicates you don't always keep them.

 

[Millky95]

Really?

He is worth more than that.

I would be expecting West coasts first pick (top 5) for Mcdonald and steak knives.

I was mostly kidding. Some on the Swans board believe we can't keep players and we get shafted at the trade table. So losing McDonald after 2 years for pick 30 sounds about right

 

[Bonz]

Yeah, I'd back your program and culture to keep him ... for now at least. Going home at 27 is a different beast.

Albeit Jordan Dawson leaving indicates you don't always keep them.

Jordan Dawson was a disaster on multiple parts.

• We likely could have signed him earlier in the year but delayed discussions.
• Covid made things worse and Adelaide pounced.

I am very confident that McDonald will sign on. Just like how I am confident that Phillips will become a 250 game player (before the draft I wanted Sydney to draft Phillips as thought there was no chance of McDonald slipping, would have been happy either way).

In hindsight North was in a no lose/ no win situation in this draft, premiership teams are built off a strong midfield so it makes perfect sense to strengthen the midfield (especially as they have developing forwards already), the issue is media/ supporters love to fap off about key forwards so the moment McDonald looked like he was going to do something people were always going to jump on their back, especially as Phillips was always going to require time to settle.

 

[Del191229]

Jordan Dawson was a disaster on multiple parts.

• We likely could have signed him earlier in the year but delayed discussions.
• Covid made things worse and Adelaide pounced.

I am very confident that McDonald will sign on. Just like how I am confident that Phillips will become a 250 game player (before the draft I wanted Sydney to draft Phillips as thought there was no chance of McDonald slipping, would have been happy either way).

In hindsight North was in a no lose/ no win situation in this draft, premiership teams are built off a strong midfield so it makes perfect sense to strengthen the midfield (especially as they have developing forwards already), the issue is media/ supporters love to fap off about key forwards so the moment McDonald looked like he was going to do something people were always going to jump on their back, especially as Phillips was always going to require time to settle.

Phillips was drafted as the long term Cunners replacement, and is more advanced than where Cunners was at the same time even with the COVID shit hampering his development.

Agree on McDonald and the wider KPF fapping phenomenon.

 

[Sphynx]

Yep, and JJK coming to the end, Darling being an Anti-vaxxer... and COVID making cross country travel more difficult, just wait for WC to come with an offer he can't resist.

Well, it was reportedly the reason he was lower on our draft board....

We viewed him as a flight risk apparently.

 

[daffo]

KPP players are a lot more valuable BUT are more hit & miss in the draft.

Injury aside, you are guaranteed a gun midfield player in the top three. The safe move was Phillips but the player with the more upside is McDonald.
Also, as OP stated, Phillips is player you can find easier through trade/mid draft if required later on down the track if needed.

All things considered, you should go the KPP instead of the mid.

 

[Kwality]

I am very interested to reassess this come seasons end.

Plenty of positives surrounding Phillips coming out of the club, but he is obviously competing with a pretty stacked midfield at North now, with Simpkin, LDU, Cunnington*, Powell, Thomas, Stephenson, JHF, Greenwood, Anderson*.

Mcdonald is a very interesting one. I spoke with a couple of recruiters from different clubs in the lead up to the 2020 draft, and there were definitely flight risk concerns, however i think they thought he would at least extend his initial contract, however this has not yet come to fruition.

Could the Darling situation play into his hands? West Coast will have a top 5 pick this year.

A big year for this debate for mine.

Flight risk? Country boy, attended a footy school .... no wonder the Swans took him so early.

 

[Del191229]

KPP players are a lot more valuable BUT are more hit & miss in the draft.

Injury aside, you are guaranteed a gun midfield player in the top three. The safe move was Phillips but the player with the more upside is McDonald.
Also, as OP stated, Phillips is player you can find easier through trade/mid draft if required later on down the track if needed.

All things considered, you should go the KPP instead of the mid.

This is the complete opposite of what Melbourne did to build their flag side.

You use your high end picks on the gun mids (Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw) and then trade in the talls as you identify which kind of tall you need - burly full back to take the gorillas, interceptor, ruck/forward etc,

 

[HBFlanker]

Flight risk? Country boy, attended a footy school .... no wonder the Swans took him so early.

As in he will want to be back in WA in the short term

 

[Kwality]

Yeah, I'd back your program and culture to keep him ... for now at least. Going home at 27 is a different beast.

Albeit Jordan Dawson leaving indicates you don't always keep them.

Classic example of someone looking to set himself for life after footy closer to home.

 

[daniel23]

Isn't just pre season form.

You do know Phillips had his development years ruined by COVID?

Nah I didnt know , can you explain what happened in his under-age year ?.

 

[Liam Boy]

Nah I didnt know , can you explain what happened in his under-age year ?.

well, there was a pandemic of the novel coronavirus known as "Covid-19"

 

[master bate]

This is the complete opposite of what Melbourne did to build their flag side.

You use your high end picks on the gun mids (Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw) and then trade in the talls as you identify which kind of tall you need - burly full back to take the gorillas, interceptor, ruck/forward etc,

Except:

1. May was traded in for Hogan, in an ideal world Hogan would be starting at CHF still and we probably would've picked up a cheaper/lesser full back or kept going with Frosty. Hogan had to go and May was available to us because we had a top 10 pick from Hogan leaving.

2. Had we been able to sneak Trengove off to Richmond we would've drafted Lever. In fact Lever was probably in play for pick 3 if not for his ACL and would've been a better pick than Brayshaw and it would've been a lot cheaper to find a decent winger in Brayshaw's role than it was to bring Lever across.

3. Ben Brown came over because Weideman didn't work out. Which is both an argument against drafting talls early but we did do it.

4. Jackson was pick 3.

And perhaps the biggest factor: elite talls are incredibly hard to find on the trade/free agency market, hence why they are drafted so high in the first place.

The situations that led to May, Lever and Ben Brown to become available aren't reproducible. May only comes up because the Suns were at historic levels of failure and Melbourne were lucky to have the Hogan picks/cap space to make that happen, a big fish like him usually goes to the big boy clubs too. Lever was genuinely keen to come home for family reasons and Adelaide managed to botch it. Brown isn't without ongoing challenges with his body and game style but it took an epic North collapse (which will work well in the long term) to free up a player with his upside at an affordable price.

I know the Hawks did something similar with Lake/Frawley, Gibson and Gunston but they also had Buddy and Roughy to kick start their success.

North's strategy is defensible because they have Larkey and McKay and figure they don't need to fill all the tall spots with early picks. They have a guy at each end to build around. But I wouldn't want to be rebuilding without a couple of cornerstone talls. And I look at a team like the Pies who might've lost the 2018 grand final because they didn't have enough quality talls. Geelong's ongoing attempts to patch the ruck spot could be similar. Same for the Dogs lack of CHB.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

It was madness then ,and madness now.
Midfielders are a dime a dozen and power forwards are hard to come by.

 

[the big lebowski]

It was madness then ,and madness now.
Midfielders are a dime a dozen and power forwards are hard to come by.

Is McDonald a power forward?

 

[Kwality]

Except:

1. May was traded in for Hogan, in an ideal world Hogan would be starting at CHF still and we probably would've picked up a cheaper/lesser full back or kept going with Frosty. Hogan had to go and May was available to us because we had a top 10 pick from Hogan leaving.

2. Had we been able to sneak Trengove off to Richmond we would've drafted Lever. In fact Lever was probably in play for pick 3 if not for his ACL and would've been a better pick than Brayshaw and it would've been a lot cheaper to find a decent winger in Brayshaw's role than it was to bring Lever across.

3. Ben Brown came over because Weideman didn't work out. Which is both an argument against drafting talls early but we did do it.

4. Jackson was pick 3.

And perhaps the biggest factor: elite talls are incredibly hard to find on the trade/free agency market, hence why they are drafted so high in the first place.

The situations that led to May, Lever and Ben Brown to become available aren't reproducible. May only comes up because the Suns were at historic levels of failure and Melbourne were lucky to have the Hogan picks/cap space to make that happen, a big fish like him usually goes to the big boy clubs too. Lever was genuinely keen to come home for family reasons and Adelaide managed to botch it. Brown isn't without ongoing challenges with his body and game style but it took an epic North collapse (which will work well in the long term) to free up a player with his upside at an affordable price.

I know the Hawks did something similar with Lake/Frawley, Gibson and Gunston but they also had Buddy and Roughy to kick start their success.

North's strategy is defensible because they have Larkey and McKay and figure they don't need to fill all the tall spots with early picks. They have a guy at each end to build around. But I wouldn't want to be rebuilding without a couple of cornerstone talls. And I look at a team like the Pies who might've lost the 2018 grand final because they didn't have enough quality talls. Geelong's ongoing attempts to patch the ruck spot could be similar. Same for the Dogs lack of CHB.

& Melbourne worked there way through problems to get the best from what they have. It was a slow build.

 

[Kwality]

Is McDonald a power forward?

He's a teenager who will grow into his body.

 

[HBFlanker]

It was madness then ,and madness now.
Midfielders are a dime a dozen and power forwards are hard to come by.

Couldn't disagree more.

North backed in Larkey, and so far have been proved correct. If Comben or CCJ develop into a nice second tall, thats a bonus.

 

[the big lebowski]

He's a teenager who will grow into his body.

He is. But like Lukoscious I have my reservations that he’ll end up a power forward. Not saying he won’t be any good. And I may be wrong, but McDonald being a no 1 KPF is not a certainty imo.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Well, it was reportedly the reason he was lower on our draft board....

We viewed him as a flight risk apparently.

Your draft team must have different info to most others, he isn't a traditional flight risk that is running home because he misses mum.

I personally just think West Coast are going to have a bucketload of cash (especially if Darling throws his career away because he's scared of needles), and will make him an offer too good to refuse / that we would be silly to match given where he is in his career.

Flight risk? Country boy, attended a footy school .... no wonder the Swans took him so early.

Anyway this isnt a dump on North, have already posted earlier in thread I was hoping we'd draft Phillips before the draft and think he will be a gun.
I think it will be a one of those captain hindsight things, where if McDonald ends up being a generational forward you'll cop it for not drafting him, ignoring that big forwards have a fairly high failure rate at draft, so a safe mid pick was probably the better bet for you at the time.

 

[1990crow]

If you look at the abundance that North have drafted outside Phillips, this decision is still puzzling.

 

[Sphynx]

Except:

1. May was traded in for Hogan, in an ideal world Hogan would be starting at CHF still and we probably would've picked up a cheaper/lesser full back or kept going with Frosty. Hogan had to go and May was available to us because we had a top 10 pick from Hogan leaving.

2. Had we been able to sneak Trengove off to Richmond we would've drafted Lever. In fact Lever was probably in play for pick 3 if not for his ACL and would've been a better pick than Brayshaw and it would've been a lot cheaper to find a decent winger in Brayshaw's role than it was to bring Lever across.

3. Ben Brown came over because Weideman didn't work out. Which is both an argument against drafting talls early but we did do it.

4. Jackson was pick 3.

And perhaps the biggest factor: elite talls are incredibly hard to find on the trade/free agency market, hence why they are drafted so high in the first place.

The situations that led to May, Lever and Ben Brown to become available aren't reproducible. May only comes up because the Suns were at historic levels of failure and Melbourne were lucky to have the Hogan picks/cap space to make that happen, a big fish like him usually goes to the big boy clubs too. Lever was genuinely keen to come home for family reasons and Adelaide managed to botch it. Brown isn't without ongoing challenges with his body and game style but it took an epic North collapse (which will work well in the long term) to free up a player with his upside at an affordable price.

I know the Hawks did something similar with Lake/Frawley, Gibson and Gunston but they also had Buddy and Roughy to kick start their success.

North's strategy is defensible because they have Larkey and McKay and figure they don't need to fill all the tall spots with early picks. They have a guy at each end to build around. But I wouldn't want to be rebuilding without a couple of cornerstone talls. And I look at a team like the Pies who might've lost the 2018 grand final because they didn't have enough quality talls. Geelong's ongoing attempts to patch the ruck spot could be similar. Same for the Dogs lack of CHB.

There's certainly been alot of non-reproducable situations in recent years then and I'm not even including ruckman:


Jake Lever
Stephen May
Jesse Hogan x2
Brian Lake
Josh Gibson
Alex Keath
Joe Danniher
James Frawley
Lance Franklin
Adam Tomlinson
Tom Lynch
Tom Boyd
Charlie Dixon
Lachie Henderson
Jeremy Howe
Jake Carlisle
Jarrad Waite
Josh Kennedy
Ben Brown
Robbie Tarrant
Chris Tarrant
Troy Chaplin
Mitch Clark
Barry Hall
Brendan Fevola


As you said, we have 23 year old book ends that aren't exactly mugs and Comben may be better than both of them. I think people easily overlook the fact we picked up a tall kid who was touted to have slipped into around pick 6-15 in the draft had he been there and we hadn't selected him in midseason draft also.

Our rebuild isn't over and our recruiters have specifically nominated this year as having some talls they like.


The above list is an indication, in most cases, key position players are gettable on the market, especially for contending sides.

 

[Sphynx]

Flight risk? Country boy, attended a footy school .... no wonder the Swans took him so early.

Has there been a top drafted WA KPP that hasn't moved clubs at some point if drafted interstate? Rance? But he wasn't exactly a top pick.

Granted, they didn't return home, but it's a strange coincidence.


Franklin, Kennedy, Hogan, Ryder, Leunburger etc.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Billy Hartung

Billy Hartung

Age

29

Ht

177cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

8.3

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.8

4star

CL

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

over Zach Merrett will always hurt more than this ever will.

 

[Del191229]

The situations that led to May, Lever and Ben Brown to become available aren't reproducible. May only comes up because the Suns were at historic levels of failure and Melbourne were lucky to have the Hogan picks/cap space to make that happen, a big fish like him usually goes to the big boy clubs too. Lever was genuinely keen to come home for family reasons and Adelaide managed to botch it. Brown isn't without ongoing challenges with his body and game style but it took an epic North collapse (which will work well in the long term) to free up a player with his upside at an affordable price.

I know the Hawks did something similar with Lake/Frawley, Gibson and Gunston but they also had Buddy and Roughy to kick start their success.

North's strategy is defensible because they have Larkey and McKay and figure they don't need to fill all the tall spots with early picks. They have a guy at each end to build around. But I wouldn't want to be rebuilding without a couple of cornerstone talls. And I look at a team like the Pies who might've lost the 2018 grand final because they didn't have enough quality talls. Geelong's ongoing attempts to patch the ruck spot could be similar. Same for the Dogs lack of CHB.

There'll be more quality talls come onto the market.