Analysis Is Rocky the Right Man for the Job?

[M Malice]

Please. There's no Bigfooty people in the know. We're all just a bunch of supporters, some who want to feel valued more than others. I think I'll trust the club on these issues, more than a supporter forum and I definitely won't be crucifying players over one or two media reports from proven gutter journalists.

can't agree with that, i would say there are different degrees of "in the know" among BF lions posters.

i for example attend some training sessions but have never attended a club social gathering eg. B&F. i have spoken to some players albeit very briefly.

on the other hand you have some posters who get really involved with the club and can become quite close acquaintances or even friends with club players and staff.

 

[Hollow Knight]

This year he has copped critism for being a possession collector that doesn't impact on the game. That's not a description of a good player.

well I assume most Lions fans would realise that is underselling his talent.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Please. There's no Bigfooty people in the know. We're all just a bunch of supporters, some who want to feel valued more than others. I think I'll trust the club on these issues, more than a supporter forum and I definitely won't be crucifying players over one or two media reports from proven gutter journalists.

What if people were talking about this stuff months before the "gutter journalists" were?

Time machines?

I mean even the club is equivocating when asked if Rockliff will be captain or even at the club next year. Do people really believe there is nothing going on?

Anyway it's my first Father's Day as a Dad so will have to press pause on this!

 

[nigelicious]

Please. There's no Bigfooty people in the know.

Please refer to my signature. Cheers.

 

[AFLQLD]

What if people were talking about this stuff months before the "gutter journalists" were?

Time machines?

I mean even the club is equivocating when asked if Rockliff will be captain or even at the club next year. Do people really believe there is nothing going on?

Anyway it's my first Father's Day as a Dad so will have to press pause on this!

Enjoy it TBD. The little buggers grow up fast!

 

[lioninthesand]

Listened to Tom petoro yesterday on SEN.

Disclaimer -Yes I know he is Toms manager and is going to stick up for him etc.

He stated that Tom wasn't aggrieved by the club not meeting his contract demands (after the club its self pushed for an extention) they were just baffled that the club made no counter offer or reply on 3 different occasions. However it was systematically leaked to the media? He just sounded as if they were scratching their heads at the process amd it smacked of poor management.

This HIGHLIGHTS our need for a Neil Balme up here, someone needs to commandeer the ghost ship ASAP.

He said he suspected it was about 5% of the club Tom had bad relations with and they were leaking and beating the drum the loudest. That he generally enjoyed strong relations with the entire playing group. That there were weeks this year he and Leppa had 'fallen out' over issues and it wasnt perfect, but it was just about what was best for the club and was quickly rectified. And that they had a close relationship. Interestingly.. when someone suggested tom had blood on his hands in Leppas sacking.. he pointed out that was odd because Leppa put in several calls pushing for the extention to go through and said toms signiture is vital to his rebuild and tried to play peace maker basically - that Leppa advocated for tom regularly.

Toms got his issues, ive heard through 2 different sources that his party lifestyle is of particular intetest, but I think he was on Leppas side and generally has the support of the players. Although, all comsidered, like Leppa.. maybe theres too much smoke, maybe if a first rounder is on the table we look at it? Fresh start and all.

Its a hard one but I think he has been painted in a worse light than might actually be reality.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Just for clarity, and I don't see why some are struggling with my point, I am not suggesting that we play him in the reserves next year.

Again, if they are at a point where they are seriously considering delisting him (which was the question asked)then I expect they would threaten him with not playing him to give him the option of trade or play in the magoos. He would realise at this point that he really isn't wanted and hopefully agree to a trade rather than be delisted, and hence we wouldn't have to pay him out.
That is the scenario I responded to; the suggestion that we would have to delist and pay him out as our last option.

It's because the point you are making is not even an option. You simply can't say to a player 'leave or we'll play you in the twos'. You also can't de-list a contracted player even if you're willing to pay him out. You either trade him or play him in the seniors where he has earnt his spot. Anything else is going to cause issues with the AFLPA or be straight up irresponsible.

 

[Football Pope]

Just for clarity, and I don't see why some are struggling with my point, I am not suggesting that we play him in the reserves next year.

Again, if they are at a point where they are seriously considering delisting him (which was the question asked)then I expect they would threaten him with not playing him to give him the option of trade or play in the magoos. He would realise at this point that he really isn't wanted and hopefully agree to a trade rather than be delisted, and hence we wouldn't have to pay him out.
That is the scenario I responded to; the suggestion that we would have to delist and pay him out as our last option.

As a Club that has had a fair share of players going-home and is wanting to attract players to the club... Not sure why we'd entertain the idea to delist our captain, with 12 months to run on his contract and has just been voted by his peers as the "Players Player". Has stated, through his manager, that he wants to be at the club in '17 and is 99% certain of doing so ...We're looking to transform the club and it's not the right organisational culture to be threatening players.

 

[POBT]

Rocky players player, i'm confused TBD, what's going on?

have we all just been waffling over nothing the last 47 pages?

From Mr Ripper's explanation, it is clear that it is not a popularity contest. Each player votes on each game. I don't think the outcome says much about Rocky's relationship with his colleagues, one way or another. The B&F votes per game says Rocky had a reasonable year, comparative to the other players. I don't think it is a massive stretch that he gets an award of this nature. The reason you have a Players Player award separate to the main B&F is because the players may have a different perspective to the coaches.

 

[Skoob]

It's because the point you are making is not even an option. You simply can't say to a player 'leave or we'll play you in the twos'. You also can't de-list a contracted player even if you're willing to pay him out. You either trade him or play him in the seniors where he has earnt his spot. Anything else is going to cause issues with the AFLPA or be straight up irresponsible.

As a Club that has had a fair share of players going-home and is wanting to attract players to the club... Not sure why we'd entertain the idea to delist our captain, with 12 months to run on his contract and has just been voted by his peers as the "Players Player". Has stated, through his manager, that he wants to be at the club in '17 and is 99% certain of doing so ...We're looking to transform the club and it's not the right organisational culture to be threatening players.

Oh FFS, my posts were in response to this hypothetical Q & A.

So the club will have to de list to get rid of him ?

Could ..Still have to pay his contract out..Not sure the AFL would be too impressed...

Not my assertion of what will happen.
Not my idea of how the situation should be handled.
Not my opinion of where we're at.

It's because the point you are making is not even an option. You simply can't say to a player 'leave or we'll play you in the twos'. You also can't de-list a contracted player even if you're willing to pay him out. You either trade him or play him in the seniors where he has earnt his spot. Anything else is going to cause issues with the AFLPA or be straight up irresponsible.

Jed Adcock says "Hi". A contracted player has no guarantee of getting senior games.

As a Club that has had a fair share of players going-home and is wanting to attract players to the club... Not sure why we'd entertain the idea to delist our captain, with 12 months to run on his contract and has just been voted by his peers as the "Players Player". Has stated, through his manager, that he wants to be at the club in '17 and is 99% certain of doing so ...We're looking to transform the club and it's not the right organisational culture to be threatening players.

Then you haven't taken anything in the last 48 pages seriously. I don't know how bad the situation is nor what he may have allegedly done, but clearly some believe it serious enough to call it toxic and partly to blame for losing very good players in Yeo and Docherty.
Other than that, it was just a hypothetical to which you responded first.

 

[cotter101]

I have no idea about our player motivations but I've seen school captains get voted in who were bullies just because they were seen to want the job more than anyone else. Nobody liked them but they had influence and you didn't want to cross them if you could help it.

You pick your battles.


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I'm not at all having a 'dig' or suggesting anything but:

We're talking about men here. Not school kids. Two very different situations. If we have a bunch of players voting for Rockliff as the players, player simply so they don't end up on his 'bad' side. Then a good portion of our list needs to be moved on.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Fwiw, the way the Player's Player award works is the players pick one bloke out as PP for each week, and whoever runs up the most of these across the season wins the year-end gong.

Makes sense that he gets the award if this is the voting system.

 

[Football Pope]

Oh FFS, my posts were in response to this hypothetical Q & A
Then you haven't taken anything in the last 48 pages seriously. I don't know how bad the situation is nor what he may have allegedly done, but clearly some believe it serious enough to call it toxic and partly to blame for losing very good players in Yeo and Docherty.
Other than that, it was just a hypothetical to which you responded first.

Don't have a melt down it wasn't personal....My response was to your 'Hypothetical Q&A'..It's what we do on forums, "discuss". My opinion is why it wouldn't happen.. .

FWIW The bold part is probably the best and truest part I can relate to of the past 48 pages.

 

[xplo]

I'm not at all having a 'dig' or suggesting anything but:

We're talking about men here. Not school kids. Two very different situations. If we have a bunch of players voting for Rockliff as the players, player simply so they don't end up on his 'bad' side. Then a good portion of our list needs to be moved on.

9 debutantes this year. 21 on the list under 22. Many of the rest new boys in town. I'm not seeing such a chasm between our list and school as you are.

 

[James North]

Yeah I don't think 18-21 year olds really know what is what.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Jed Adcock says "Hi". A contracted player has no guarantee of getting senior games.

Uncontracted player at the tail end of his career vs. contracted captain. Jed was told he would be playing twos to help develop our young kids, not because he refused to agree to a trade and they don't like him anymore. Not comparable IMO. There is simply no way we 'de-list' him in any scenario, ignoring the fact you can't actually de-list a player who is contracted.

 

[lioninthesand]

Through all this mess the one thing I love is how the Pro / No Leppa camps have switched places and taken up the exact opposite position on the Rocky issue. And both are arguing defending the exact things that they wouldnt except on the Leppa issue, from the other side of the fence.

Me included.

Where theres smoke there's fire...........*depending on who lit it.

 

[nigelicious]

Through all this mess the one thing I love is how the Pro / No Leppa camps have switched places and taken up the exact opposite position on the Rocky issue. And both are arguing defending the exact things that they wouldnt except on the Leppa issue, from the other side of the fence.

Me included.

Where theres smoke there's fire...........*depending on who lit it.

There was 0 suggestion Leppa had professional or personal conduct issues. "Exact things" is far from correct.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Through all this mess the one thing I love is how the Pro / No Leppa camps have switched places and taken up the exact opposite position on the Rocky issue. And both are arguing defending the exact things that they wouldnt except on the Leppa issue, from the other side of the fence.

Me included.

Where theres smoke there's fire...........*depending on who lit it.

This is incredibly reductionist. Does a great disservice to the level of discussion people provided, including your own.

 

[James North]

'Leppa isn't a good coach / Leppa isn't a bad coach' was the position in that discussion, I think.

This is not 'Rockliff is a good player / Rockliff is a bad player'.

The guy is factually a great player.

 

[Monkey Daniel]

Enjoy it TBD. The little buggers grow up fast!

Yes enjoy Father's Day !!
It does go very quickly, my eldest had his 18th birthday yesterday

 

[Gadzorks]

Yes enjoy Father's Day !!
It does go very quickly, my eldest had his 18th birthday yesterday

Our twins turned 30 this year. 30!

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Barrett is at his throat again.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Zorko was out with Rockliff and vice-captain Pearce Hanley and other players on Monday afternoon, just hours after ex-senior coach Justin Leppitsch was sacked.

Cannot take anything seriously that comes out of Hamilton's mouth. First it was Zorko was unhappy with Rich, Rockliff and Hanley for drinking on Monday Night. Then the article was edited to the players were upset that Rockliff and Hanley were out drinking, now it says Zorko and others were out drinking with them. I'd take the the guys word on twitter who is followed by them that they were all out that night.

 

[POBT]

Through all this mess the one thing I love is how the Pro / No Leppa camps have switched places and taken up the exact opposite position on the Rocky issue. And both are arguing defending the exact things that they wouldnt except on the Leppa issue, from the other side of the fence.

Me included.

Where theres smoke there's fire...........*depending on who lit it.

I wanted Leppa removed and I think that, if Rockliff is a poor influence on the group, we need to move him on too.

I take no pleasure in either situation and, as with Leppa, am more than happy to change my view based on more information or the views of those more informed than me.

If I am wrong and Rockliff successfully leads a unified group next year, I would be ecstatic.