Is St Kilda in the firing line for relocation?

[Colonial]

How are you a club? Based on what a club song that never gets sung, a history of losing?, when did I demand all clubs get treated with respect?, please gws and the suns will forever be franchises.....

In every way shape and form

 

[Murraj1966]

Taking away all the bullshit anyone who actually wanted a team folded or moved isn't a fan of football because you'd have die hard fans lost to the game

 

[Nutsngum]

Firstly I only used offended because you did. Pissed off and annoyed is probably more relevant, because I hate clubs thinking they can blunder along and the afl will always bail them out. My club has made more than its fair share, but we knew oblivion was an option if we didn't get it right. This thread is full of saints fans saying their existence is guaranteed because the afl is profitable.

As for the claims, your own supporters in this thread have claimed the saints have more fans than us, it's just that they don't go to games, watch them, or care about footy that much. I'll call bullshit on any club who uses unsubstantiated data like this to pump up its tyres

But anyway, does this mean you accept the bet?

Why are you acting like a giant baby?

You seem baffingly offended/upset that we would use your team as an aspiration for our own and are clawing at everything you can to discredit the notion we have a large but undedicated supporter base. Richmond have done everything right in their quite lengthy time lacking success and have always had a rather abnormally dedicated fan base and now we look at that and think that we can too. Why is that a bad thing?

Matt Finnis is a respected CEO, he isnt just basing this on random speculation. He knows that we have a supporter base that needs to be brought into the fold and that it can be done. But instead of wishing us well and so forth, youre sitting here doing everything you can to shit on our team and I am honestly baffled why anyone would be that dedicated to bashing on other people and their team.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Typical "big club" response. Lest we forget your run of hilariously poor form brought about by your own "win at any cost" mentality. One could argue the club has never really recovered, as is more of a spent force than ever.

I have had to endure this kind of talk from your mob and the other supposed "big 3" all my footy life. Yet we are still here, and I have yet to see a convincing argument that proves Melbourne is incapable of supporting both the lower drawing and more popular clubs. We still draw fans, and have had more than our fair share of good years recently, as have North and the Dogs.

Sorry, but we aren't going anywhere soon.

Carlton are no way near a premier club by any means so dont take his words as an insult.

 

[Ricmel]

Not what this says:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sa...rd-training-base/story-fn6bmfa2-1225980630649

"Despite then having 33 years of a lease to run at Moorabbin, St Kilda announced in May 2007 it would leave the ground after lengthy discussions with Kingston Council about redevelopment and poker machines broke down irreparably".

They wouldn't let us have the number of pokies we wanted. They weren't willing to negotiate, and we couldn't proceed without them. End of story.

That is a very old story. I would read this one if I were you,

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/st-kildas-sorry-seaford-sojourn-20140410-zqt75.html

There is also an interview done two years ago with Archie Fraser where he agreed in hindsight the situation could have been saved. The common understanding at the club was that Fraser cracked a hissy.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Why are you acting like a giant baby?

You seem baffingly offended/upset that we would use your team as an aspiration for our own and are clawing at everything you can to discredit the notion we have a large but undedicated supporter base. Richmond have done everything right in their quite lengthy time lacking success and have always had a rather abnormally dedicated fan base and now we look at that and think that we can too. Why is that a bad thing?

Matt Finnis is a respected CEO, he isnt just basing this on random speculation. He knows that we have a supporter base that needs to be brought into the fold and that it can be done. But instead of wishing us well and so forth, youre sitting here doing everything you can to shit on our team and I am honestly baffled why anyone would be that dedicated to bashing on other people and their team.

I'm saying base your plans on reality

You do not have one of the biggest supporter bases in this state. Planning your success based upon converting this mythical mass is setting yourself up for failure

As I've repeatedly said, if GF appearances were not enough to make these supporters attend games, why will a podcast or vids on your website do this?

Better supporter engagement is great, but it only works for those actively engaging with your website, Twitter, etc

 

[Nutsngum]

I'm saying base your plans on reality

You do not have one of the biggest supporter bases in this state. Planning your success based upon converting this mythical mass is setting yourself up for failure

As I've repeatedly said, if GF appearances were not enough to make these supporters attend games, why will a podcast or vids on your website do this?

Better supporter engagement is great, but it only works for those actively engaging with your website, Twitter, etc

Please provide data disproving our supporter base. Thanks.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Please provide data disproving our supporter base. Thanks.

Your attendences are on par with melbourne

Your membership is a joke (you sold 300 in just under three weeks)

Your merchandising is behind most clubs

You rarely see saints kids at Auskick

And that's while I'm having my coffee

 

[Riccardo11]

That is a very old story. I would read this one if I were you,

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/st-kildas-sorry-seaford-sojourn-20140410-zqt75.html

There is also an interview done two years ago with Archie Fraser where he agreed in hindsight the situation could have been saved. The common understanding at the club was that Fraser cracked a hissy.

Even this article states the following:

"In 2007, a $10.5 million upgrade of Moorabbin was proposed but failed after a dispute centreing on 80 poker machines. The Saints will tell you it was more complicated and that the local council at the time was bloody-minded, but the general consensus now is that far more could have been done to save the relationship.

And it would be wrong to simply single out Fraser. The St Kilda board was weak and the AFL - which only tacitly supported the split - should have stepped in and done more to save Moorabbin, a ground now all agree demands an upgrade worthy of its geographical position and quality surface."

Though I am 100% in agreement that we should have done more, there was clearly absolutely nothing we could do, or we would have stayed instead of wasting time, effort and money at Seaford and just coming back to Linton St 5 years later anyway.

 

[Riccardo11]

I'm saying base your plans on reality

You do not have one of the biggest supporter bases in this state. Planning your success based upon converting this mythical mass is setting yourself up for failure

As I've repeatedly said, if GF appearances were not enough to make these supporters attend games, why will a podcast or vids on your website do this?

Better supporter engagement is great, but it only works for those actively engaging with your website, Twitter, etc

You understand when we say "supporter engagement", it's not just online, there are open training sessions, player personal appearances, etc.

And I and others have repeatedly attempted to make you understand what we are doing to help ourselves out, but you are refusing to accept this and are repeating the same pot shots with different, and increasingly hostile, words.

None of this has anything to do with relocation, which is a moot point anyway. I think we all need to move on.

 

[Nutsngum]

Your attendences are on par with melbourne

Your membership is a joke (you sold 300 in just under three weeks)

Your merchandising is behind most clubs

You rarely see saints kids at Auskick

And that's while I'm having my coffee

Thats not data, thats your anecdotal opinion and avoided my question.

Provide data disproving how big our supporter base is. It's the entire crux of your argument so unless you're here just to troll people, in which case I'll just report you for such, support yourself through figures please.

 

[thegreig]

St. Kilda and Western bulldogs aren't going anywhere, they're both in giant growth areas and are too important to the AFL. The only change I could ever see happening to any Vic clubs in the future would be a Melbourne/ North Melbourne merge and even then I strongly doubt it would ever happen, North seem to have their sh*t together these days and are heading in the right direction. Melbourne have their history (which gives them a get out of jail free card for some reason) plus they would have some extremely wealthy members.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You understand when we say "supporter engagement", it's not just online, there are open training sessions, player personal appearances, etc.

And I and others have repeatedly attempted to make you understand what we are doing to help ourselves out, but you are refusing to accept this and are repeating the same pot shots with different, and increasingly hostile, words.

None of this has anything to do with relocation, which is a moot point anyway. I think we all need to move on.

Those are even harder techniques to use to engage a disinterested candidate (esp training)

Fwiw I think you are the least vulnerable of the smaller Vic clubs, but I think you should be chasing new prospects, not hoping those who can't be motivated by success might be motivated now.

Happy to leave it at that though, as you say we are off relocation

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Thats not data, thats your anecdotal opinion and avoided my question.

Provide data disproving how big our supporter base is. It's the entire crux of your argument so unless you're here just to troll people, in which case I'll just report you for such, support yourself through figures please.

Already provided the attendances

On memberships, from feb 12 to Wednesday this week, most clubs have sold around 1500, yours sold 250 (by far the lowest of any Victorian club)

I'll dig up the merch sales when I get home

Face it, talk you have the supporter base of a big 4 club is a nonsense

 

[Falchoon]

If a supporter isn't even willing to rock up to a Qualifying Final or Preliminary Final after a 44 year drought without a flag (namely St Kilda v Geelong (63,608) and St Kilda W Bulldogs (62,694)) how can you plausibly claim that they are supporters of the club?

What's more for both fixtures, both games were classified as 'AFL series ticket matches'

60's for the Saints v Dogs at the G is huge, given neither clubs are tenants and half the ground is not available to the public.

 

[Falchoon]

Neither did Hawthorn until their recent run: http://www.aflmembershipnumbers.com/hawthorn-membership-numbers.html

Not saying we will emulate that, but it shows it's possible.

I'd be disappointed if we attracted the same bandwagon element as Hawthorn

 

[Falchoon]

You rarely see saints kids at Auskick

And that's while I'm having my coffee

hey what?

 

[wolfpup]

You rarely see saints kids at Auskick

lol which auskick u referring to? my local one would have them as the majority. what a strange thing to say.

 

[westie]

They need to stay in the comp just for the lols.

Get stuffed smartarse

 

[westie]

Your attendences are on par with melbourne

Your membership is a joke (you sold 300 in just under three weeks)

Your merchandising is behind most clubs

You rarely see saints kids at Auskick

And that's while I'm having my coffee

Oh you are funny. And just exactly where has your huge membership got you so far. Do know Ken Deluded?

 

[Defacto]

I'm saying before you start talking about converting them into members, how about getting them to actively follow the club - you know, attend a game or buy a scarf?

I keep hearing the peninsula is a saints stronghold, but as someone who lived in the Frankston area for 22 years I can tell you that's complete crap. I can count the number of saints fans I knew on two hands (schools were dominated by blues, pies, Hawks, and dons)

I think this talk of a massive dormant supporter base is myth, because it's non footy people who have a soft spot for the saints. These people don't become members

Do you really expect us to believe you have 10 or more friends?

 

[Nutsngum]

Already provided the attendances

On memberships, from feb 12 to Wednesday this week, most clubs have sold around 1500, yours sold 250 (by far the lowest of any Victorian club)

I'll dig up the merch sales when I get home

Face it, talk you have the supporter base of a big 4 club is a nonsense

I'm not sure you understand buddy. The point of this is to gain more attendance by getting supporters to games via either memberships or simply selling tickets. Claiming previous attendance records as if they effect growth of an untapped market is incorrect.

Well, on Feb 15th we had 27,413. As of the 5th of this month we have 28,239. 826 is a shade more then 250 but I wont let figures get in the way of your mouth frothing argument.

As I have said. Provide actual proof that our supporter base isnt as big as you claim and I shall listen and have a debate with you but so far youve done nothing but misrepresent concepts, provide your own short sighted observations as facts and outright lie about other figures.

 

[roosmad]

All clubs in this league are a franchise

If you even want to go to membership ownership, your club was owned by a bunch of rich boys for a number of years, surely that means you don't qualify as a "club" either (given how recent the change has been, your recent history is almost entirely are a non membership based franchise of the league

I'd suggest not using words you don't understand the meaning of

You mean words like it's been 30 plus years???and still delivering shit

 

[The_Wookie]

thread has devolved somewhat. Closing.