Opinion Is this rock bottom?

[Only Forwards]

Your distorted view of reality is entertaining. The truth is staring you in the face yet you choose to ignore it. Excuse away the incompetence of the last 5 years with dribble and nonsense. It won’t change the Butchery of our List Management that has resulted in the worst North Melbourne team we have seen in our lifetime. That’s a fact that can’t be denied by any sensible individual. Only an apologist or a fool would think otherwise. :stern look

Since the point we entered the VFL there has never been a 5 year period where we have lost more games.

Not a single one.

2020 - 2024 - 90 (soon to be 91) losses
1968 - 1972 - 84 losses
2019 - 2023 - 83 losses
1927 - 1931 - 80 losses

For all the talk of what we could be, basically the worst time in the clubs history is right now.

 

[Zondor]

Hawthorn's last two games against Sydney have been 14 and 15 goal thumpings.

It can turn quickly, however theirs is clearly system base as much as it is personal.

There's been many times to lose our shit over the last 4-5 years, I've been guilty of losing it more than most, however, the weekend wasn't really one of them.

As you said, we have been one of the worst teams of the last 100 years, the first half of the season was completely unacceptable, however, a team like us can't really afford to lose 4 of our best 5-6 players, including 2 of them in-game against a team whose biggest strength further magnifies those losses.

LOL. Don’t use the term “it can turn around quickly” with the Fish. I’d say that to him in the past. He has been mocking me for years how we have yet to “turn it around quickly”. :stern look

 

[Passmore]

Since the point we entered the VFL there has never been a 5 year period where we have lost more games.

Not a single one.

2020 - 2024 - 90 (soon to be 91) losses
1968 - 1972 - 84 losses
2019 - 2023 - 83 losses
1927 - 1931 - 80 losses

For all the talk of what we could be, basically the worst time in the clubs history is right now.

You can tell the grand kids "I was there during the great famine...."

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

 

[shinboner magic]

Since the point we entered the VFL there has never been a 5 year period where we have lost more games.

Not a single one.

2020 - 2024 - 90 (soon to be 91) losses
1968 - 1972 - 84 losses
2019 - 2023 - 83 losses
1927 - 1931 - 80 losses

For all the talk of what we could be, basically the worst time in the clubs history is right now.

There are more games played now

 

[Zondor]

Since the point we entered the VFL there has never been a 5 year period where we have lost more games.

Not a single one.

2020 - 2024 - 90 (soon to be 91) losses
1968 - 1972 - 84 losses
2019 - 2023 - 83 losses
1927 - 1931 - 80 losses

For all the talk of what we could be, basically the worst time in the clubs history is right now.

You see it. Thank you OF for pointing out those facts. :stern look

Allow me to continue to point out some more facts. :stern look

Rawling before coming to the Mighty NMFC did not rate the list. Those who are reading this can believe me or dismiss me. I don’t care. It’s the truth. After 2020 he took the opportunity of a poor season to cut deep. Too deep. The Board agreed. And those exit interviews. Boy oh boy. So Rawling now had a canvas to paint. A number of years later how is that canvas looking? :stern look

So who came into North at the end of 2020 to replace those who were moved on? Young, Atu, Stephenson, Corr, Phillips, Powell, Lazzaro, Spicer and Ford, Pat Walker and Conor Menadue. How’s that lot looking to all in Sunbury? :stern look

I could go on and on. The truth is staring you all in the face. :stern look

 

[Only Forwards]

There are more games played now

Ok, you want to split the hair on that so I will.

The period where we entered the VFL and the first 13 years was the worst by % of games lost (which then washes for you above point).

However since post WW2 at no point have we ever had back to back seasons as bad as it is right now.

Post 1938 our worst 5 year periods by % lost of games played is:

2020 - 2024 - 85%
1968 -1972 - 79%
2019 - 2021 - 78%

So even when you slice it that way we are still worse than we basically ever have been.

If you want to debate about the pre 1938 years, to have seen those years, and been of an age that remembers even the end of them, that person would likely need to be around 100 years old.

 

[DocSholl]

Horace

 

[The acurate one]

3 positives vs 15-20 negatives is a far cry from being “on the way up”.

Every putrid team over the last 100 years would’ve had taken 2-3 positives out of its year.

It’s a Win/Loss industry. Simple as that. Looking for scrapes of positivity to fluff up and bang on about is what this club now clings to.

For example, George Wardlaw will finish Top 3 in the Rising Star - the club, and many on here, will marvel at that achievement. Who cares? Really. Did it translate to wins?

Xerri will make the AA squad. Sure, nice personal achievement, but did it translate to wins?

We have been so starved of success that we’ll celebrate any little thing.

Well DF you are correct if that's the way you want to judge this caper on W/L's.
We've had a wretched run, Thomas, JHF, Logue, Goater, that lot has hit us hard.

So yeah I do want to try and find a few positives amongst the murky waters of yes another disastrous season. The word via the media was for us to show improvement and win six games. We failed that dismally, we though should have beaten, Collingwood, Melbourne and WCE. But yeah we didn't.

You put Logue, Goater, JHF and Thomas into our side and we win those 3 games at least. And the reason I mentioned those four is because they were all issues beyond our control. Should we have got more for JHF, yes but that's easy to say. How were we going to achieve that, with Jason adamant he was going to Port and Port only.

It wouldn't have been difficult for Jase to say I'm going back to SA, and hope it's Port but ok with playing for the Crows. Is it our fault he's dim and was manipulated by Port, no it isn't.

But I do see the positives and Charlie is probably the biggest one of the lot. Yes Sheezel, Wardlaw , McKercher should all be capable. Charlie was I think pick 31, Xerri pick 72, Archer pick 50 odd.

Now and i've done this to death, but Comben needs to play full ****ing forward, he is born for that. Larkey to work 30-75 mtrs. Charlie to relief ruck as well.

No Teakles, we play the below fwd line and the below backline


Curtis Comben Hansen Jnr
Duursma Larkey Zurhaar

Backs...


Archer Logue Corr
Goater W Dawson Hardeman

McDonald 7th defender.

Anyways we will see, and I think we may be nasty once the seasons ends, could be some shocks with who leaves.

 

[shinboner magic]

Well DF you are correct if that's the way you want to judge this caper on W/L's.
We've had a wretched run, Thomas, JHF, Logue, Goater, that lot has hit us hard.

So yeah I do want to try and find a few positives amongst the murky waters of yes another disastrous season. The word via the media was for us to show improvement and win six games. We failed that dismally, we though should have beaten, Collingwood, Melbourne and WCE. But yeah we didn't.

You put Logue, Goater, JHF and Thomas into our side and we win those 3 games at least. And the reason I mentioned those four is because they were all issues beyond our control. Should we have got more for JHF, yes but that's easy to say. How were we going to achieve that, with Jason adamant he was going to Port and Port only.

It wouldn't have been difficult for Jase to say I'm going back to SA, and hope it's Port but ok with playing for the Crows. Is it our fault he's dim and was manipulated by Port, no it isn't.

But I do see the positives and Charlie is probably the biggest one of the lot. Yes Sheezel, Wardlaw , McKercher should all be capable. Charlie was I think pick 31, Xerri pick 72, Archer pick 50 odd.

Now and i've done this to death, but Comben needs to play full ****ing forward, he is born for that. Larkey to work 30-75 mtrs. Charlie to relief ruck as well.

No Teakles, we play the below fwd line and the below backline


Curtis Comben Hansen Jnr
Duursma Larkey Zurhaar

Backs...


Archer Logue Corr
Goater W Dawson Hardeman

McDonald 7th defender.

Anyways we will see, and I think we may be nasty once the seasons ends, could be some shocks with who leaves.

You’re hired and no dilly dallying with a few home truths while you’re there

 

[Sphynx]

You see it. Thank you OF for pointing out those facts. :stern look

Allow me to continue to point out some more facts. :stern look

Rawling before coming to the Mighty NMFC did not rate the list. Those who are reading this can believe me or dismiss me. I don’t care. It’s the truth. After 2020 he took the opportunity of a poor season to cut deep. Too deep. The Board agreed. And those exit interviews. Boy oh boy. So Rawling now had a canvas to paint. A number of years later how is that canvas looking? :stern look

So who came into North at the end of 2020 to replace those who were moved on? Young, Atu, Stephenson, Corr, Phillips, Powell, Lazzaro, Spicer and Ford, Pat Walker and Conor Menadue. How’s that lot looking to all in Sunbury? :stern look

I could go on and on. The truth is staring you all in the face. :stern look

And yet, I'd still take this current list over the one inherited by Laidley and even the very best of Brad Scott's tenure that lacked any real superstars.

They were never in danger of ever seriously challenging for a flag.

Which is at odds with your point.

Win 14 games, finish 6th, win two finals, lose the prelim by 13 goals. It was awesome, aye? 36 year old Boomer our best player, 32 year old Dal Santo our next on a paycheck, Levi Greenwood and Sam Greenwood our stars of the engine room of 2014.

 

[Mr north man]

The club needs a big broom. Top to bottom

Won’t happen
As the click in the club will want a say to protect their mates and their bottom feeding mates and the lackeys of them.
We need a smart FAC
Fu:king
Arrogant
C:nt
To come in get rid of the useless Try hards Mates protecting woke loving hipsters who use there Muse in life
Social Media EG:Linkden,Tik Tok to further there own self interest that don’t give a rats Fu:king Ar:e about our club who all strut around like Spanish Peacocks with the corporate line of All is Well we have little wins each week everything is well Next Question.

 

[hilly]

The problem wasn't who we cut, the problem was (and is) who we recruit.

 

[Mr north man]

You see it. Thank you OF for pointing out those facts. :stern look

Allow me to continue to point out some more facts. :stern look

Rawling before coming to the Mighty NMFC did not rate the list. Those who are reading this can believe me or dismiss me. I don’t care. It’s the truth. After 2020 he took the opportunity of a poor season to cut deep. Too deep. The Board agreed. And those exit interviews. Boy oh boy. So Rawling now had a canvas to paint. A number of years later how is that canvas looking? :stern look

So who came into North at the end of 2020 to replace those who were moved on? Young, Atu, Stephenson, Corr, Phillips, Powell, Lazzaro, Spicer and Ford, Pat Walker and Conor Menadue. How’s that lot looking to all in Sunbury? :stern look

I could go on and on. The truth is staring you all in the face. :stern look

Your Right
That’s why by 10am next Monday either Rawlings would have resigned from the club which he won’t or is sacked which won’t happen as he will be protected by his mates in this club .
The would rather get rid of a lacky then a mate.

 

[Zondor]

And yet, I'd still take this current list over the one inherited by Laidley and even the very best of Brad Scott's tenure that lacked any real superstars.

They were never in danger of ever seriously challenging for a flag.

Which is at odds with your point.

Win 14 games, finish 6th, win two finals, lose the prelim by 13 goals. It was awesome, aye? 36 year old Boomer our best player, 32 year old Dal Santo our next on a paycheck, Levi Greenwood and Sam Greenwood our stars of the engine room of 2014.

Who are our “Superstars” now? Sheezel? LDU for all his ball winning ability does have a suspect kick on him. The same applies to Wardlaw as tenacious as he is. McKercher looks the goods. Larkey is a very accurate kick for goal. Xerri has come on and so has Archer. But they ain’t no Carey, McKernan, Schwass, Grant etc. Mate you were trying to tell us George is a better player than Zurhaar and the poor dude hasn’t played a game so excuse me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt. :stern look

 

[Sphynx]

Who are our “Superstars” now? Sheezel? LDU for all his ball winning ability does have a suspect kick on him. The same applies to Wardlaw as tenacious as he is. McKercher looks the goods. Larkey is a very accurate kick for goal. Xerri has come on and so has Archer. But they ain’t no Carey, McKernan, Schwass, Grant etc. Mate you were trying to tell us George is a better player than Zurhaar and the poor dude hasn’t played a game so excuse me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt. :stern look

Im not talking about the 90's.

But surely you can't expect one of the best teams of all time to be the norm?

You said it all comes down to wins, everything else is irrelevant.

Well the Brad Scott teams got wins consistently, made finals. We're irrelevant. I'll still take this list over that at this point, despite the lack of wins.

So it's not ALL about wins.

And yes, Sheezel is an absolute superstar and already better than anyone in that 00's side AND 90's side other than the Duck and he's 19 years old.

 

[Zondor]

Im not talking about the 90's.

But surely you can't expect one of the best teams of all time to be the norm?

You said it all comes down to wins, everything else is irrelevant.

Well the Brad Scott teams got wins consistently, made finals. We're irrelevant. I'll still take this list over that at this point, despite the lack of wins.

So it's not ALL about wins.

And yes, Sheezel is an absolute superstar and already better than anyone in that 00's side AND 90's side other than the Duck and he's 19 years old.

One Superstar. Got it. So who are our other current Superstars? Where is our Abraham? Our Pickett? Guys i mentioned previously that could all turn a game into our favour? McKercher has line breaking speed and can kick. He is about the only other guy who u can see can become a gun. We need more players that can run and kick. We need more players that can clunk a contested mark and kick a long goal. This current list is littered with holes. Lack of Small Forwards, Quality Talls, Runners with good kicking skills. The midfield mix is wrong. LDU the only dude with size. Sheezel a close second. But the rest Munchkin City. The truth is eyeballing you in the face yet you’re not eyeballing the truth back but blinking feverishly like The Artichoke on his 5th Kahlúa & Midori. :stern look

 

[Mordecai]

One Superstar. Got it. So who are our other current Superstars? Where is our Abraham? Our Pickett? Guys i mentioned previously that could all turn a game into our favour? McKercher has line breaking speed and can kick. He is about the only other guy who u can see can become a gun. We need more players that can run and kick. We need more players that can clunk a contested mark and kick a long goal. This current list is littered with holes. Lack of Small Forwards, Quality Talls, Runners with good kicking skills. The midfield mix is wrong. LDU the only dude with size. Sheezel a close second. But the rest Munchkin City. The truth is eyeballing you in the face yet you’re not eyeballing the truth back but blinking feverishly like The Artichoke on his 5th Kahlúa & Midori. :stern look

I think this is why we are being fed news that we're going after wines, viney, parker, rampe etc. We can't go to the draft and expect success. We need seasoned bodies and minds to drive down change and show how it's done. I think it was Hodge who said the best players for this type of thing are inside mids (wines, viney) or half back flankers (rampe). The reasoning being is you can influence the game as an inside mid.

 

[the_cleaner]

since 2016 every team besides gold coast and north has made finals. out of those 16 teams, 14 teams have won a final. the teams to have not won a final since then are hawthorn who look like they will end that streak come streak will come to an end come september time and well… we know who the other team is.

is north just destined to be a club that hangs around a bottom? did the club run over a black cat whilst breaking a mirror and walk under a ladder all at the same time? i was white pilled on the clubs future post-bye but after yesterday it’s back to being black pilled. a 19 year old is the difference between a 17 point loss and 96 point demolition job(i’m aware of the injuries etc).

 

[Cyber_punk]

since 2016 every team besides gold coast and north has made finals. out of those 16 teams, 14 teams have won a final. the teams to have not won a final since then are hawthorn who look like they will end that streak come streak will come to an end come september time and well… we know who the other team is.

is north just destined to be a club that hangs around a bottom? did the club run over a black cat whilst breaking a mirror and walk under a ladder all at the same time? i was white pilled on the clubs future post-bye but after yesterday it’s back to being black pilled. a 19 year old is the difference between a 17 point loss and 96 point demolition job(i’m aware of the injuries etc).

Let's be real it's been like this for most of our history other than a couple of decades.

Perennial battlers on struggle street. It can be a very difficult cycle to permanently break. We either go the way of Geelong and Hawthorn and turn it around or go full St Kilda.

 

[the_cleaner]

Let's be real it's been like this for most of our history other than a couple of decades.

Perennial battlers on struggle street. It can be a very difficult cycle to permanently break. We either go the way of Geelong and Hawthorn and turn it around or go full St Kilda.

i don’t think we have the resources or the IP to compete with a hawthorn or geelong. they seem to make the right decisions when it comes to drafting and fitness. hawthorn were in the battle of the spoon with us in round 5 and now look set for a decent finals campaign. it’s something intangible that we just can’t get it right whilst hawthorn seem to nail every decision.

 

[Sphynx]

One Superstar. Got it. So who are our other current Superstars? Where is our Abraham? Our Pickett? Guys i mentioned previously that could all turn a game into our favour? McKercher has line breaking speed and can kick. He is about the only other guy who u can see can become a gun. We need more players that can run and kick. We need more players that can clunk a contested mark and kick a long goal. This current list is littered with holes. Lack of Small Forwards, Quality Talls, Runners with good kicking skills. The midfield mix is wrong. LDU the only dude with size. Sheezel a close second. But the rest Munchkin City. The truth is eyeballing you in the face yet you’re not eyeballing the truth back but blinking feverishly like The Artichoke on his 5th Kahlúa & Midori. :stern look

I loved Choppy and Winnie, they were two of my favourite North players ever, but lets not pretend they were Darren Jarman or Andrew McLeod, particularly Winnie.

You are extracting the urine defining those guys as superstars, they were to North fans, but not the competition.

Most North fans would describe Cunners the same way.


Larkey kicked 70 goals last season. Whilst he's certainly not Carey, is he as good as McKernan? He's certainly a better than a clapped out Horse with his knee's gone. Corey's best season was 40 goals playing as a ruck/forward, I think sometimes we act like he was Carey (and he was for about 2 minutes before injury) when in reality he had 2-3 absolute top line seasons, with the rest nowhere near the level you are describing.

Who were our other superstars you are describing? Arch, Mick, Stevo, Kingy? I don't think any of them ever fit into the "superstar" category you are describing. North was often described as Carey vs the rest, getting those teams to flags on his back. It was bullshit of course, but an indication of where some of the others sat.

It was an extremely even team with one of the best players in history spearheading it.

The likes of Sheezel, LDU, Wardlaw, Larkey, Comben, Xerri, McKercher - possibly even Powell and Logue would have absolutely walked into that side back then.

Sheezel, Wardlaw, LDU, McKercher will be right up there with the stars of those sides when they are done.

Or do we just ignore the fact that the likes of Evan Hewett, Brett Chandler, Robert Scott, Brady Anderson, Anthony Mellington etc played a ton of football in those dominant sides? They had plenty of average players in them, like every premiership side.

If you can't see our top end talent at the moment has more potential than any time since that era, well, you must be watching with your eyes shut.

 

[Cyber_punk]

i don’t think we have the resources or the IP to compete with a hawthorn or geelong. they seem to make the right decisions when it comes to drafting and fitness. hawthorn were in the battle of the spoon with us in round 5 and now look set for a decent finals campaign. it’s something intangible that we just can’t get it right whilst hawthorn seem to nail every decision.

It's culture.

Geelong lost to us in early 2007 after being red hot favourites, then their entire list sat down and had a serious talk where they challenged each other on what they wanted to be as a football club. And we've all seen how their club has gone since.

Hawthorn just seem to be able to pass on their standard of excelllence down from generation to generation and have since the 1960s. I'd not be surprised at all to see them win another flag in 2-3 years.

For us that standard under Pagan didn't disappear straight after he and Carey were gone, it lingered a little with the guys left over and was a slow fadeout to what we see today.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Let's be real it's been like this for most of our history other than a couple of decades.

Perennial battlers on struggle street. It can be a very difficult cycle to permanently break. We either go the way of Geelong and Hawthorn and turn it around or go full St Kilda.

A bit of an overstatement. (presumably we're not counting VFA years)
*1925-1974 shisen housen
*1974-2019 p*ssed a few flags down the drain so a modest premiership count, but basically always in the conversation for finals, or playing finals for that entire time, only got close to the bottom a few times and no wooden spoon for 50 years.
So I wouldnt say thats most of our history.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

It's culture.

Geelong lost to us in early 2007 after being red hot favourites, then their entire list sat down and had a serious talk where they challenged each other on what they wanted to be as a football club. And we've all seen how their club has gone since.

Hawthorn just seem to be able to pass on their standard of excelllence down from generation to generation and have since the 1960s. I'd not be surprised at all to see them win another flag in 2-3 years.

For us that standard under Pagan didn't disappear straight after he and Carey were gone, it lingered a little with the guys left over and was a slow fadeout to what we see today.

Nothing slow about it.
*2018 we beat the eventual premiers by 40 points, finish with 12 wins (six losses under 3 goals)
*2019 we beat the eventual premiers by 37 points, finish with 10 wins (five losses under 3 goals) and a Pies player (Pendles if memory serves?) apparently rated us as the toughest side to play against
*2020 now is the winter of discontent

Maybe it's because of sensitivity around Shaw leaving citing mental health issues, but I'm honestly staggered Brad Scott gets all the blame, and Rhyce Shaw doesn't absolutely cop it on here, whatever he did during his tenure, our culture has been in the toilet ever since.

How can it be half a decade and I still havent heard anyone use the phrase "short arse, cue ball headed, milk bottle scoffing bast*rd". Not even once.

 

[Horizons_00]

It's culture.

Geelong lost to us in early 2007 after being red hot favourites, then their entire list sat down and had a serious talk where they challenged each other on what they wanted to be as a football club. And we've all seen how their club has gone since.

Hawthorn just seem to be able to pass on their standard of excelllence down from generation to generation and have since the 1960s. I'd not be surprised at all to see them win another flag in 2-3 years.

For us that standard under Pagan didn't disappear straight after he and Carey were gone, it lingered a little with the guys left over and was a slow fadeout to what we see today.

Sam Mitchell has developed a very strong culture already at Hawks.

Plus he’s involved with everything, the draft, what players they should be going for, fitness and way more involved than other coaches.