Opinion Is this rock bottom?

[Marstermind]

LOL. What Nonsense! Firstly I brought up both Abraham and Pickett because they both had speed, were great kicks of the football and could win yah a game. Who in our current line up has those attributes? King had speed and was a decent kick. Blakey was a raking kick and could run. Pike had dash. Schwass also was quick and could kick. There is currently no comparison. It’s why the team of the 90s played final after final. As juniors a fair chunk of them won flag after flag. 2 players in our current line up have polish. Sheezel and McKercher. LDU has a burst from a pack and can win a ball but his kicking. Wardlaw’s attack and want for the ball is first class but his kicking. The skill level of our current list pales into insignificance to that of the team of the 90s. We simply do not have enough talent for the pain that we’ve gone through. We are a fair way away. A 1,000 Miles away. We lack line breaking speed. Long raking kicks that hit targets. Big Dudes that can take a contested mark down the line. Small forwards like Allison and Abraham that were quick and kicked goals. Stop with your horseshit defence of the indefensible. The truth is staring you in the face. :stern look

The Flower Drum v Greasy Joe's Sunshine Salmonella Stall
Lamborghini Veneno v Datsun Sunny
Holiday in Saint-Tropez v Frankston Caravan Park.
1996 Pagan's Paddock v 2024 Clarko's Shit Trucks.

There are some comparisons that are so one sided and pointless that regardless on which side you're taking, you sound stupid just being involved.

 

[Passmore]

My distorted view of reality? Okay mate whatever...

Honestly I don't even care if we sack Brady for a better option. I just think its ridiculous to always put everything on one person the way you are doing.

Have you forgotten the way we'd constantly defend our list against nearly every AFL commentator in the land when they'd say we had the worst list in the comp in the years 2017-2020? I haven't. That's why i don't think what you are saying stacks up. 2020 proved those bastards right.

Since 2020 we've slowly improved the quality of the list against a while heap of difficulties. Now its starting to resemble a side with proper structure - a spine, mids, flankers and even small forwards ... altho you refuse to acknowledge that's what they are so you can bang on about how we don't have any.

WE sacked Brad Scott and ended up with a coach who went mental. We replaced him with a coach who appears to have been a ****en idiot and when we finally got a half decent coach in the door his whole world fell on his head like a ton of bricks. We had a disinterested executive, a dysfunctional footy department and several players who were obviously toxic to the group, all the way back to 2020. The good players we had were too young or too old. Very few in that age group we need now 27 - 32. Very few years ago when that cohort would have been 24 - 29.

So as far as I'm concerned those reasons I just listed have more to do with why we are in the shit we are in now than Brady ****ing Rawlings.

But whatever man. Its your life, think what you like if it helps you deal with the shit we keep serving up.

Don’t know why you bother.

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

My distorted view of reality? Okay mate whatever...

Honestly I don't even care if we sack Brady for a better option. I just think its ridiculous to always put everything on one person the way you are doing.

Have you forgotten the way we'd constantly defend our list against nearly every AFL commentator in the land when they'd say we had the worst list in the comp in the years 2017-2020? I haven't. That's why i don't think what you are saying stacks up. 2020 proved those bastards right.

Since 2020 we've slowly improved the quality of the list against a while heap of difficulties. Now its starting to resemble a side with proper structure - a spine, mids, flankers and even small forwards ... altho you refuse to acknowledge that's what they are so you can bang on about how we don't have any.

WE sacked Brad Scott and ended up with a coach who went mental. We replaced him with a coach who appears to have been a ****en idiot and when we finally got a half decent coach in the door his whole world fell on his head like a ton of bricks. We had a disinterested executive, a dysfunctional footy department and several players who were obviously toxic to the group, all the way back to 2020. The good players we had were too young or too old. Very few in that age group we need now 27 - 32. Very few years ago when that cohort would have been 24 - 29.

So as far as I'm concerned those reasons I just listed have more to do with why we are in the shit we are in now than Brady ****ing Rawlings.

But whatever man. Its your life, think what you like if it helps you deal with the shit we keep serving up.

But Ferbs I think the main gripe is we haven’t really improved the list dramatically since 2020. We still have lots of holes despite having arguably access to more first round picks than any club outside of an expansion club. In the end someone has to be accountable for that. It’s not the coach atm (although he needs to be better) Brady has to be fall guy fair or unfair. Not even his most ardent supporters would say he has done anything more than an ok job

 

[Spud11]

Rock bottom would’ve been no club.

Still, I’m not really sure that what we’re currently seeing is what JB and co. fought to stay in Melbourne for.

 

[Sphynx]

LOL. What Nonsense! Firstly I brought up both Abraham and Pickett because they both had speed, were great kicks of the football and could win yah a game. Who in our current line up has those attributes? King had speed and was a decent kick. Blakey was a raking kick and could run. Pike had dash. Schwass also was quick and could kick. There is currently no comparison. It’s why the team of the 90s played final after final. As juniors a fair chunk of them won flag after flag. 2 players in our current line up have polish. Sheezel and McKercher. LDU has a burst from a pack and can win a ball but his kicking. Wardlaw’s attack and want for the ball is first class but his kicking. The skill level of our current list pales into insignificance to that of the team of the 90s. We simply do not have enough talent for the pain that we’ve gone through. We are a fair way away. A 1,000 Miles away. We lack line breaking speed. Long raking kicks that hit targets. Big Dudes that can take a contested mark down the line. Small forwards like Allison and Abraham that were quick and kicked goals. Stop with your horseshit defence of the indefensible. The truth is staring you in the face. :stern look

So what do you want? Speed or skill?

Is that the be all and end all, no other intangibles?

Wardlaw and LDU make Stevo and Bell look like pedestrians from an athletic stand point then. Stevo wasn’t exactly Darren Jarman either with the ball either.


Schwass was the total package, no argument there.

Yes Winnie and Byron had speed and class, but so does McKercher.

Did we have an athletic CHB that looks anywhere near as good as Comben? No.

Did we have a ruck worthy to carry Xerri’s kit bag in that side? No. He would have absolutely ****ing annihilated Corey around stoppage.

Is Larkey the best forward outside of Duck? Yes.

We had Duck.

But with respect to some of the absolute Champions of that side, Harry is in an entirely different category of midfielder, including Boomer and whoever else you want to remiss about.

Is this the 90’s side? No. But its a not total disaster and also a completely ****ing idiotic comparison, because we don't know how good the likes of Wardlaw, McKercher, Comben, Sheezel, Duursma are truly going to be yet.

We also don’t need that 90’s side to win another flag..

 

[gerry101101]

But Ferbs I think the main gripe is we haven’t really improved the list dramatically since 2020. We still have lots of holes despite having arguably access to more first round picks than any club outside of an expansion club. In the end someone has to be accountable for that. It’s not the coach atm (although he needs to be better) Brady has to be fall guy fair or unfair. Not even his most ardent supporters would say he has done anything more than an ok job

To be fair to Brady, I think player development continues to be one of our biggest weakness. We will just never know if some of the players we’ve recruited may have thrived in a different system. We also have to play most of them from day 1 rather than letting them hone their craft in the 2s like a Geelong - as we desperately search for a way out of the hole.

More generally, while people can mount a case otherwise, I think the general consensus is that were are improving - but improvement, particularly when led by kids, is never totally linear. Thus games like the Sydney and Bulldogs ones. Frustrating, but hang in there - another couple of quality draftees/trades over the off season and some clear air for the club and who knows.

As the old saying goes, it’s never as good as it seems and never as bad as it seems. And a glacial trend in the right direction is still… heading in the right direction. We’ll hit the accelerator at some point.

 

[ferball]

But Ferbs I think the main gripe is we haven’t really improved the list dramatically since 2020. We still have lots of holes despite having arguably access to more first round picks than any club outside of an expansion club. In the end someone has to be accountable for that. It’s not the coach atm (although he needs to be better) Brady has to be fall guy fair or unfair. Not even his most ardent supporters would say he has done anything more than an ok job

We had five first round picks in three drafts including JHF. So really its four cos we traded one for another. We've got two first rounders from season 2020/21.

How does that fix a list?

We had five last year. Lets be realistic, that one of them plays every game is great. Most first round picks aren't expected to come to a club and immediately fill list holes.

 

[Passmore]

To be fair to Brady, I think player development continues to be one of our biggest weakness. We will just never know if some of the players we’ve recruited may have thrived in a different system. We also have to play most of them from day 1 rather than letting them hone their craft in the 2s like a Geelong - as we desperately search for a way out of the hole.

More generally, while people can mount a case otherwise, I think the general consensus is that were are improving - but improvement, particularly when led by kids, is never totally linear. Thus games like the Sydney and Bulldogs ones. Frustrating, but hang in there - another couple of quality draftees/trades over the off season and some clear air for the club and who knows.

As the old saying goes, it’s never as good as it seems and never as bad as it seems. And a glacial trend in the right direction is still… heading in the right direction. We’ll hit the accelerator at some point.

It’s been a mixture of both. Plus the misfortune of trading into a COVID impacted draft. Followed by another in which we drafted Fabian Jnr and had the Noble implosion. Followed by the Thomas shit and the Hawthorn investigation (that unsurprisingly Hawthorn have not been impacted by)

Gavin Brown was screaming for more resources that never came. Now we’ve made that part of the club the priority under Mick Barlow.

Four years into a root and branch rebuild and we finally have some stability. And you’ve dills that want more disruption so they feel better.

 

[hilly]

We had five first round picks in three drafts including JHF. So really its four cos we traded one for another. We've got two first rounders from season 2020/21.

How does that fix a list?

We had five last year. Lets be realistic, that one of them plays every game is great. Most first round picks aren't expected to come to a club and immediately fill list holes.

You can take players outside of R1.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[amaz199]

Sam Mitchell has Clarko to thank for everything he is doing right now.

The apprentice doesn't get this good on his own. A master had to be there to guide him.

 

[Liam Boy]

We had five first round picks in three drafts including JHF. So really its four cos we traded one for another. We've got two first rounders from season 2020/21.

How does that fix a list?

We had five last year. Lets be realistic, that one of them plays every game is great. Most first round picks aren't expected to come to a club and immediately fill list holes.

also the "first round" last year almost went to 30. Goad, Dawson and Hardeman wouldn't be first round picks in 99% of drafts.

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

It’s been a mixture of both. Plus the misfortune of trading into a COVID impacted draft. Followed by another in which we drafted Fabian Jnr and had the Noble implosion. Followed by the Thomas shit and the Hawthorn investigation (that unsurprisingly Hawthorn have not been impacted by)

Gavin Brown was screaming for more resources that never came. Now we’ve made that part of the club the priority under Mick Barlow.

Four years into a root and branch rebuild and we finally have some stability. And you’ve dills that want more disruption so they feel better.

Sorry the dills are just wondering how long the root and branch will take? it’s clearly not 4 years and defiantly won’t be 5. Given we don’t won’t to disrupt the process when should we expect to win say 4 games in a season? Or will we just keep using bad luck as an excuse in perpetuity?

 

[Liam Boy]

Sam Mitchell has Clarko to thank for everything he is doing right now.

The apprentice doesn't get this good on his own. A master had to be there to guide him.

The biggest thing that's enabled Hawthorn to bounce back is that the club has remained a coherent, stable unit since their dynasty. Apart from Clarkson leaving the senior position a year early, the handover was planned years in advanced and executed pretty much how they wanted it with Mitchell getting to bring a group through in the VFL. It's just not comparable to our parade of shit with Brad running the list into the ground and stepping aside mid-year for a first-year assistant coach who was appointed on the back of sugar-hit results, mentally broke down under conditions no one on earth could've anticipated, then was replaced by the guy the AFL's go-to "fix this unstable club" guy strongly recommended before ****ing off to Hawaii.

Not denying Sam Mitchell is a good coach, he clearly is, and I don't know if I'd put it in as simple terms as "he had a master to teach him" because I think it has more to do with the stability of the club than any particular genius. If he'd taken the reins at North in Clarkson's place I don't think he would've done any better so far. It's a massive mess to clean up.

 

[Passmore]

Sorry the dills are just wondering how long the root and branch will take? it’s clearly not 4 years and defiantly won’t be 5. Given we don’t won’t to disrupt the process when should we expect to win say 4 games in a season? Or will we just keep using bad luck as an excuse in perpetuity?

Well the first 2 years were a wash given we sacked the coach most of his staff. So they’re gone. Can get them back unfortunately as much as we’d like.

Back to square 1 in 2023. That’s just the reality. 2024 a whole new focus on the development aspect. Heap more resources going into it. Needs time. Again, just the reality. I don’t think you’ll find any supporters happy with the wasted years, but we need to look ahead.

 

[Uncle_Leo]

Eddie Ford was pick 56 ffs and one of the last players taken in the draft. if you want to beat yourself up over draft picks there are way better options.

Missed by point completely.

We have people here saying we cut to deep and others saying we didn’t and drafted poorly.

The above names mentioned show we are just a rotating door for shit footballers

 

[Passmore]

You can take players outside of R1.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

We’ve historically pissed 2nd rounders up against a wall. Hopefully that’s changing. Curtis can play. So can Goater if he stays in one piece.

 

[hilly]

We’ve historically pissed 2nd rounders up against a wall. Hopefully that’s changing. Curtis can play. So can Goater if he stays in one piece.

Hopefully. I feel like a lot of our 2nd rounders come attached with a caveat of sorts (injured slider) but either way we can't just rely on one high pick a year.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Passmore]

Hopefully. I feel like a lot of our 2nd rounders come attached with a caveat of sorts (injured slider) but either way we can't just rely on one high pick a year.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

We do love a good injured slider.

 

[archereleven]

The tide will turn is the messaging, but when?

Honestly, I don't even care about finals football, I just want to know when I will be able to watch a game with the confidence that we'll be competitive and a chance to win?

What is the plan? Do we have minimum standards of effort? Who is driving the standards? Is there a clear plan regarding the list, i.e., how we draft, use free agency, and trades to fill positions?

If we finish bottom 2 next season, where are we at? Have we failed? Are we still on target? What kpi's are in place at the club?

There are so many questions with so few answers except be patient - again.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[scottywiper]

So what would you have done differently?

Well just about everything .
From not cleaning out everyone and instead keeping some role players that still had value.
To not bending over to help Richmond so we could get a dud like CCJ
To not drafting a limited's plodder like Crafty.
To prioritising getting a small forward or two.
To finding another tall or two for both ends
To not loading the list with small mids and medium forwards
To making foot skills an essential aspect for every player drafted.
To not bringing in very average players from other clubs on long contracts.
To not signing Simpkin from here to eternity.
To not rolling dice on injured sliders.
I must admit, apart from that, he's been great.

 

[archereleven]

Well just about everything .
From not cleaning out everyone and instead keeping some role players that still had value.
To not bending over to help Richmond so we could get a dud like CCJ
To not drafting a limited's plodder like Crafty.
To prioritising getting a small forward or two.
To finding another tall or two for both ends
To not loading the list with small mids and medium forwards
To making foot skills an essential aspect for every player drafted.
To not bringing in very average players from other clubs on long contracts.
To not signing Simpkin from here to eternity.
To not rolling dice on injured sliders.
I must admit, apart from that, he's been great.

Yep, it's been one ginormous cluster**** after the other.
Anyone can pick a plethora of top 5 mids and luck out on the very odd late draft pick...

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sphynx]

Yep, it's been one ginormous cluster**** after the other.
Anyone can pick a plethora of top 5 mids and luck out on the very odd late draft pick...

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think it's unfair to say developing Round 7 selections in Xerri and Larkey into potential back to back All-Australian talls is "lucking out".

I'm as harsh as anyone, but there's been more positives in the second half of this year than the previous 60 games combined.

 

[Event Horizon]

The Flower Drum v Greasy Joe's Sunshine Salmonella Stall
Lamborghini Veneno v Datsun Sunny
Holiday in Saint-Tropez v Frankston Caravan Park.
1996 Pagan's Paddock v 2024 Clarko's Shit Trucks.

There are some comparisons that are so one sided and pointless that regardless on which side you're taking, you sound stupid just being involved.

You can't compare different eras this way. The game is played differently, and the opposition is at a different level. I wouldn't say we are miles off it, as much as it looked that way on the weekend. We are 3-4 players and some mental tweaks away from a major breakthrough in the wins column.

 

[Only Forwards]

some mental tweaks

This is what feels a long way away.

IMO the scariest thing that happened in the last two weeks was Sheez punching the ball inboard in the 2 minute shitshow finish to the West Coast game.

Lack of composure is a plague and I hope upon hope Sheez has not been infected.

 

[Event Horizon]

To not drafting a limited's plodder like Crafty.

Who is that?