Opinion Is this rock bottom?

[Horizons_00]

Well just about everything .
From not cleaning out everyone and instead keeping some role players that still had value.
To not bending over to help Richmond so we could get a dud like CCJ
To not drafting a limited's plodder like Crafty.
To prioritising getting a small forward or two.
To finding another tall or two for both ends
To not loading the list with small mids and medium forwards
To making foot skills an essential aspect for every player drafted.
To not bringing in very average players from other clubs on long contracts.
To not signing Simpkin from here to eternity.
To not rolling dice on injured sliders.
I must admit, apart from that, he's been great.

We’ve had soooo many issues at our club since the last few years of Brad Scotts era

 

[Sphynx]

Well just about everything .
From not cleaning out everyone and instead keeping some role players that still had value.
To not bending over to help Richmond so we could get a dud like CCJ
To not drafting a limited's plodder like Crafty.
To prioritising getting a small forward or two.
To finding another tall or two for both ends
To not loading the list with small mids and medium forwards
To making foot skills an essential aspect for every player drafted.
To not bringing in very average players from other clubs on long contracts.
To not signing Simpkin from here to eternity.
To not rolling dice on injured sliders.
I must admit, apart from that, he's been great.

Who should have we kept?

Dumont, Wood?

Given Ben Brown his 5 years?

Give me a break, Im sure there's a 1000 posts advocating for them being shot from a cannon at the time.


I don't know who Crafty is.

I agree with the small forwards.

"Small mids" - Do Wardlaw and Sheezel fit in this category, or just Phillips, Laz etc, i.e the ones that didn't work.

The Brayden George selection is so far down the list of issues it doesn't even requiring mentioning on this.

 

[hilly]

I think it's unfair to say developing Round 7 selections in Xerri and Larkey into potential back to back All-Australian talls is "lucking out".

I'm as harsh as anyone, but there's been more positives in the second half of this year than the previous 60 games combined.

Maybe they should try using those picks again in this upcoming draft.

 

[Frank Thring]

I watch Hawthorn and see players picked well after ours who are performing at a high level while ours, apart from Sheezel, play like they were picked in the Rookie draft.

 

[hilly]

I watch Hawthorn and see players picked well after ours who are performing at a high level while ours, apart from Sheezel, play like they were picked in the Rookie draft.

Let me tell you something Frank, it comes down to talent ID.

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[Event Horizon]

I watch Hawthorn and see players picked well after ours who are performing at a high level while ours, apart from Sheezel, play like they were picked in the Rookie draft.

I remember a couple of years ago Hawthorn has done a live trade (can't remember the exact details) during the draft, that allowed them to grab Weddle on the day. IIRC, they acquired pick 18, giving up their second rounder as well as future second plus something else. If we did it, we'd be mad, because it would sound like wasting 3 picks just to get up 9 or 10 spots in the draft. But in their case, they got themselves a gun player and fast tracked their rebuild by a year in the process.

It's not like missing out on Kozy Pickett or drafting Will Walker FFS

 

[Zondor]

Let me tell you something Frank, it comes down to talent ID.

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Let me tell you something Hilly. You’re right. :stern look

 

[Marstermind]

Who is Crafty?

 

[giantroo]

Who is Crafty?

Mahony.

 

[Marstermind]

Mahony.

Must be one of those ironic nicknames like calling a quiet bloke 'Rowdy' or a bald guy 'Curly'.

 

[Event Horizon]

Must be one of those ironic nicknames like calling a quiet bloke 'Rowdy' or a bald guy 'Curly'.

Or Spitta

 

[Rollmop]

I loved Choppy and Winnie, they were two of my favourite North players ever, but let’s not pretend they were Darren Jarman or Andrew McLeod, particularly Winnie.

You are extracting the urine defining those guys as superstars, they were to North fans, but not the competition.

Most North fans would describe Cunners the same way.


Larkey kicked 70 goals last season. Whilst he's certainly not Carey, is he as good as McKernan? He's certainly a better than a clapped out Horse with his knee's gone. Corey's best season was 40 goals playing as a ruck/forward, I think sometimes we act like he was Carey (and he was for about 2 minutes before injury) when in reality he had 2-3 absolute top line seasons, with the rest nowhere near the level you are describing.

Who were our other superstars you are describing? Arch, Mick, Stevo, Kingy? I don't think any of them ever fit into the "superstar" category you are describing. North was often described as Carey vs the rest, getting those teams to flags on his back. It was bullshit of course, but an indication of where some of the others sat.

It was an extremely even team with one of the best players in history spearheading it.

The likes of Sheezel, LDU, Wardlaw, Larkey, Comben, Xerri, McKercher - possibly even Powell and Logue would have absolutely walked into that side back then.

Sheezel, Wardlaw, LDU, McKercher will be right up there with the stars of those sides when they are done.

Or do we just ignore the fact that the likes of Evan Hewett, Brett Chandler, Robert Scott, Brady Anderson, Anthony Mellington etc played a ton of football in those dominant sides? They had plenty of average players in them, like every premiership side.

If you can't see our top end talent at the moment has more potential than any time since that era, well, you must be watching with your eyes shut.

W Schwass was a superstar, amazing really how good he was when you take into account the mental demons he was battling at the time.

 

[archereleven]

I think it's unfair to say developing Round 7 selections in Xerri and Larkey into potential back to back All-Australian talls is "lucking out".

I'm as harsh as anyone, but there's been more positives in the second half of this year than the previous 60 games combined.

Larkey and X weren't even Snoz's picks, so I was giving credit where it wasn't due. He's been very, very underwhelming as a list manager, and after 5 bottom 2 finishes, he should be booted, imho...

As good as the post bye positives have been, rounds 1-5 2025 will tell the true tale of where we are really at. We must be competitive and be on an upward trajectory from the get-go.

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[justroyal]

Remember when we had those string of games last year against Essendon and Sydney where we got quite close? I feel like after the bye this year, was the only time we played similar and that lasted about 6 games?

 

[Topparoo]

False dawns

 

[Spud11]

A lot of ppl seem to think this year is so much better. We’re going to be even with, if not worse than, last year when it comes to a close.

We had a decent patch, interestingly when Ratten took over last year, without winning one.

We haven’t turned the corner

 

[rm3504]

We do love a good injured slider.

And first rounders from other clubs

 

[chubbspeterson]

A lot of ppl seem to think this year is so much better. We’re going to be even with, if not worse than, last year when it comes to a close.

We had a decent patch, interestingly when Ratten took over last year, without winning one.

We haven’t turned the corner

I wouldn't say so much better but there's incremental improvement in individuals and certain statistical areas.
I think our clearance, contested ball, disposal and tackle/pressure numbers would be better than last year.
Our inside 50's and scoring numbers may be worse with more deliberate ball movement in the 2nd half of the year.
Xerri, Curtis, Powell, Archer and Sheezel are individuals who have improved from last year and there may be more.
I'd be interesting if somebody could use champion data or something to compare this years and last years numbers.
I looked on footy wire and most of the team stats have improved from last year incrementally but perhaps somebody has a better source they can use to compare them.

To be fair we cycled through a fair few players throughout the year like Pink, Drury, Biggie, W Dawson, RHJ, Sellers, Bergman and Hardemann as the coaches looked at the list and tinkered with what systems the players could execute.
The win/loss will be the same with a similar feel of close losses to last year (team doesn't know how to win just yet) and the percentage will be worse than last year but I see some incremental gains.
It just hasn't coalesced into wins and there might only be a small jump next year as we keep building the youngest and least experienced team in the comp by giving AFL exposure and shared experience together.

 

[the_cleaner]

Or Spitta

do you reckon he preferred to be called swallow or spitta?

 

[ferball]

Well just about everything .
From not cleaning out everyone and instead keeping some role players that still had value.

Like who? Name three role players from 2020 who were worth keeping.

To not bending over to help Richmond so we could get a dud like CCJ

Yeah that was ****ed.

To not drafting a limited's plodder like Crafty.
To prioritising getting a small forward or two.

I wanted Picket in the 2019 draft, even when he was in his 30s but I doubt he had as much say over either of those decisions as people think. He hadn't even officially started with us at that point. He has drafted Spicer, Lazarro (who was talked up as a small forward,) traded in Atu as a small forward (who was then moved down back by Noble) as well as Harvey, Drury and RHJr. Paul Curtis can play small and was 6 feet tall when he was drafted.

Most medium forwards are three or four inches taller.

To finding another tall or two for both ends

Again who? Late round speculative picks is about all we'd have had access to, fair enough if you could have named a few early. Don't say Logan McDonald cos he's useless. Talls since 2020 - Aidan Corr, Edwards, CCJ (yeah I know,) Kallan Dawson, Logue, Free, Nyuon, Pink, Will Dawson, Goad, Sellers, Tealke and Maley. (In 2019 we got Comben but I'm not counting him.)

What you mean is better talls... so who and how?

To not loading the list with small mids and medium forwards

At the start of this year we had two of the best young big mids in the comp in LDU and Thomas. He's drafted Phillips, Wardlaw, McKercher and Lazzaro who was talked up as a small forward. To go with Jy Simpkin. Are you ganna say we shouldn't have drafted Wardlaw or McKercher after the first two now?

If you're gonna call the other mids we drafted who are over six foot small then I'm not even gonna acknowledge that sort of stupidity. You can't say fowards six foot/under are somehow magically not small forwards and that mids over six foot are somehow magically small mids. Its rubbish.

Medium forwards drafted since 2020 - Eddie Ford, Harry Sheezel, Brayden George and Zane Duursma (all with midfield potential.) One per year. We also traded in Jaidyn Stephenson who was showing elite numbers (for a scared player) all over the ground till he broke his hip ****ing around.

LoAdInG tHe LiSt.

To making foot skills an essential aspect for every player drafted.

Which of is draftees don't have foot skills and provide some evidence.

To not bringing in very average players from other clubs on long contracts.

Like who? Stephens?

To not signing Simpkin from here to eternity.

Why not? He was reigning two time B&F, playing great football and his decisions to commit when we were at the bottom has been mentioned by every good player we've had who has resigned since. Sheezel, Xerri and Larkey specifically and when LDU talked about staying at North he also mentioned it.

To not rolling dice on injured sliders.

Injured Sliders drafted since 2020.

Brayden George.




That's it.

 

[hilly]

Like who? Name three role players from 2020 who were worth keeping.



Yeah that was ****ed.



I wanted Picket in the 2019 draft, even when he was in his 30s but I doubt he had as much say over either of those decisions as people think. He hadn't even officially started with us at that point. He has drafted Spicer, Lazarro (who was talked up as a small forward,) traded in Atu as a small forward (who was then moved down back by Noble) as well as Harvey, Drury and RHJr. Paul Curtis can play small and was 6 feet tall when he was drafted.

Most medium forwards are three or four inches taller.



Again who? Late round speculative picks is about all we'd have had access to, fair enough if you could have named a few early. Don't say Logan McDonald cos he's useless. Talls since 2020 - Aidan Corr, Edwards, CCJ (yeah I know,) Kallan Dawson, Logue, Free, Nyuon, Pink, Will Dawson, Goad, Sellers, Tealke and Maley. (In 2019 we got Comben but I'm not counting him.)

What you mean is better talls... so who and how?



At the start of this year we had two of the best young big mids in the comp in LDU and Thomas. He's drafted Phillips, Wardlaw, McKercher and Lazzaro who was talked up as a small forward. To go with Jy Simpkin. Are you ganna say we shouldn't have drafted Wardlaw or McKercher after the first two now?

If you're gonna call the other mids we drafted who are over six foot small then I'm not even gonna acknowledge that sort of stupidity. You can't say fowards six foot/under are somehow magically not small forwards and that mids over six foot are somehow magically small mids. Its rubbish.

Medium forwards drafted since 2020 - Eddie Ford, Harry Sheezel, Brayden George and Zane Duursma (all with midfield potential.) One per year. We also traded in Jaidyn Stephenson who was showing elite numbers (for a scared player) lall over the ground till he broke his hip ****ing around.

LoAdInG tHe LiSt.



Which of is draftees don't have foot skills and provide some evidence.



Like who? Stephens?



Why not? He was reigning two time B&F, playing great football and his decisions to commit when we were at the bottom has been mentioned by every good player we've had who has resigned since. Sheezel, Xerri and Larkey specifically and when LDU talked about staying at North he also mentioned it.



Injured Sliders drafted since 2020. Brayden George.




That's it.

Let me tell you something ferbs, we won't be going anywhere until we balance the list with quality.

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[ferball]

Who should have we kept?

Dumont, Wood?

Given Ben Brown his 5 years?

Give me a break, Im sure there's a 1000 posts advocating for them being shot from a cannon at the time.


I don't know who Crafty is.

I agree with the small forwards.

"Small mids" - Do Wardlaw and Sheezel fit in this category, or just Phillips, Laz etc, i.e the ones that didn't work.

The Brayden George selection is so far down the list of issues it doesn't even requiring mentioning on this.

Dumont left at the end of 2021. IIRC it was he wanted to be near his family after covid and he was probably put off by the hub.

 

[scottywiper]

Like who? Name three role players from 2020 who were worth keeping.



Yeah that was ****ed.



I wanted Picket in the 2019 draft, even when he was in his 30s but I doubt he had as much say over either of those decisions as people think. He hadn't even officially started with us at that point. He has drafted Spicer, Lazarro (who was talked up as a small forward,) traded in Atu as a small forward (who was then moved down back by Noble) as well as Harvey, Drury and RHJr. Paul Curtis can play small and was 6 feet tall when he was drafted.

Most medium forwards are three or four inches taller.



Again who? Late round speculative picks is about all we'd have had access to, fair enough if you could have named a few early. Don't say Logan McDonald cos he's useless. Talls since 2020 - Aidan Corr, Edwards, CCJ (yeah I know,) Kallan Dawson, Logue, Free, Nyuon, Pink, Will Dawson, Goad, Sellers, Tealke and Maley. (In 2019 we got Comben but I'm not counting him.)

What you mean is better talls... so who and how?



At the start of this year we had two of the best young big mids in the comp in LDU and Thomas. He's drafted Phillips, Wardlaw, McKercher and Lazzaro who was talked up as a small forward. To go with Jy Simpkin. Are you ganna say we shouldn't have drafted Wardlaw or McKercher after the first two now?

If you're gonna call the other mids we drafted who are over six foot small then I'm not even gonna acknowledge that sort of stupidity. You can't say fowards six foot/under are somehow magically not small forwards and that mids over six foot are somehow magically small mids. Its rubbish.

Medium forwards drafted since 2020 - Eddie Ford, Harry Sheezel, Brayden George and Zane Duursma (all with midfield potential.) One per year. We also traded in Jaidyn Stephenson who was showing elite numbers (for a scared player) all over the ground till he broke his hip ****ing around.

LoAdInG tHe LiSt.



Which of is draftees don't have foot skills and provide some evidence.



Like who? Stephens?



Why not? He was reigning two time B&F, playing great football and his decisions to commit when we were at the bottom has been mentioned by every good player we've had who has resigned since. Sheezel, Xerri and Larkey specifically and when LDU talked about staying at North he also mentioned it.



Injured Sliders drafted since 2020.

Brayden George.




That's it.

Well, you've convinced me. Now I am just confused as to how we can be so bad given we've got so much right

 

[Themanbun]

Like who? Name three role players from 2020 who were worth keeping.

Pittard, Daw, Wood, Murphy, Williams, Brown even Macmillan would all have contributed something over the following years. I thought Maj even showed good forward presence even after his horrible injuries. Do you honestly think they would have played less AFL footy than guys like Menadue, Bosenavulagi, Ham (MSD), Spicer?

It's all well and good to delist guys in the 20-30 range on your list, but replacing them with pure, utter speculation is just crud.

We then over the following years alienated guys like Higgins and Tarrant who, as we are seeing now given the young Joeys have had absolutely no one to learn from. We knew what we were doing when we played funny buggers with their contracts. JHF had attitude problems sure, but part of why he left was having absolutely no one to learn from, realising that and deciding to get the hell out of dodge. Port capitalised on that sentiment. It's an inconvenient truth for a lot of us.

You've got to have a plan to replace these guys' output, not throw darts at speculative late picks and rookies.

 

[ferball]

Pittard, Daw, Wood, Murphy, Williams, Brown even Macmillan would all have contributed something over the following years. I thought Maj even showed good forward presence even after his horrible injuries. Do you honestly think they would have played less AFL footy than guys like Menadue, Bosenavulagi, Ham (MSD), Spicer?

It's all well and good to delist guys in the 20-30 range on your list, but replacing them with pure, utter speculation is just crud.

We then over the following years alienated guys like Higgins and Tarrant who, as we are seeing now given the young Joeys have had absolutely no one to learn from. We knew what we were doing when we played funny buggers with their contracts. JHF had attitude problems sure, but part of why he left was having absolutely no one to learn from, realising that and deciding to get the hell out of dodge. Port capitalised on that sentiment. It's an inconvenient truth for a lot of us.

You've got to have a plan to replace these guys' output, not throw darts at speculative late picks and rookies.

We all know what happened with Brown's contract. Daw played about three games and it was obvious he was struggling from the pain. Not gonna repeat the stories I've heard about Pittard and Williams (Tho I would have kept them at the time). Wood played about 60 games in eight or nine seasons and 9 in his first year at St Kilda. Funnily enough Wood played as many games in 20 and 21 as Atu did in 21 and 22.

Do you people forget how little footy Brown and Daw played since and Wood and Murphy played beforehand?