Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Mobbs]

Netanyahu is a right wing murderous nut who no one is supporting now. He doesn't want a two state solution, he just wants to murder and terrorize.
It's only him and the nutter zealot settlers who are backing him now.
He needs to resign.

He needs to be in front of an international court.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

Yeah, both sides are s**t, IMO.

Both have inflicted violence upon each other for nearly 80 years and neither side wants to concede to the other to make peace.

Bothsidesing a genocide is an interesting tact

 

[bzparkes]

Bothsidesing a genocide is an interesting tact

Is it?

I'd say picking a side in this conflict is akin to supporting your favourite team, simply for the sake of it.

Neither side has covered themselves in glory: Israel for the continued oppression of the Palestinian people, of which there too many to list, and Palestinians for constant terror attacks on civilians in Israel, as well as getting kicked out of Egypt and Jordan for attempting to overthrow the governments there, before succeeding in Lebanon + being kicked out of Kuwait after the gulf war for supporting Iraq's invasion.

Is either 'side' worthy of support?

Obviously civilians needs to be protected and have the right to live peacefully. This shit's been going on for more than most of us have been alive however and with the current attitudes/views of both sides, it'll continue to do so.

The only 'positive' in this, from a geopolitical standpoint anyway, is that many of Israel's allies are beginning to distance themselves.

You can only call people 'amtisemitic' for valid criticism for so long before they see through your bullshit.

 

[Boston tiger]

Then the nation of Israel should be erased as a political construct, and a neutral multi-ethnic secular nation emerge from what remains.

The Apartheid State would no longer deserve a place amongst the nations.

Israel scores alright on V-dem democracy ratings. The rest of the region does come close.

Freedom House … Middle East

“Israel has the highest aggregate score (77) and is currently the only country rated Free in the region, though the government elected late in 2022 ran on a policy agenda that raised concerns about judicial independence and other core elements of democracy. Freedom House assesses the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip as separate territories, and both are rated Not Free.
Syria (1) has the worst aggregate score in the region, followed by Saudi Arabia (8).
Some 93 percent of the region’s people live in countries rated Not Free, while 4 percent live in Partly Free countries and 3 percent live in a Free country.

 

[treeebeard]

There is no justifiable support of Israel. In 50 years, supporting Israel in this conflict will be as absurd as being pro-Axis.

HP is a good target for those that don't support Israel...

HP provides and operates much of the technology infrastructure that Israel uses to maintain its system of apartheid and settler colonialism over the Palestinian people. Hewlett Packard Enterprise is the prime contractor of the Basel system, an automated biometric access control system employed within Israel’s checkpoints and apartheid wall. The ID cards distributed as part of this system form the basis of Israel’s systematic discrimination against Palestinians. HP technology helps the Israeli navy enforce the siege on Gaza... and so on

Share the boycott and write to the company
investorrelations@hp.com

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Bothsidesing a genocide is an interesting tact

To be fair, this situation is far more nuanced than picking sides. Like some type of footy match.

If you are going to throw labels around willy nilly, what's occurring is far closer to Ethnic Cleansing than it is a Genocide.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Israel scores alright on V-dem democracy ratings. The rest of the region does come close.

Freedom House … Middle East

“Israel has the highest aggregate score (77) and is currently the only country rated Free in the region, though the government elected late in 2022 ran on a policy agenda that raised concerns about judicial independence and other core elements of democracy. Freedom House assesses the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip as separate territories, and both are rated Not Free.
Syria (1) has the worst aggregate score in the region, followed by Saudi Arabia (8).
Some 93 percent of the region’s people live in countries rated Not Free, while 4 percent live in Partly Free countries and 3 percent live in a Free country.

So Gaza and West Bank aren’t free because of Israel’s occupation and apartheid?

It’s weird that Israel* isn’t marked down because of that.

At least put an asterix next to their name with a sidenote!

 

[treeebeard]

I don't think people are picking sides. I think a lot of people are having their eyes opened to the atrocities Israel imposes on Palestinians and wondering how our government can support it, and why they can't stand up to the Jewish lobby groups.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I don't think people are picking sides. I think a lot of people are having their eyes opened to the atrocities Israel imposes on Palestinians and wondering how our government can support it, and why they can't stand up to the Jewish lobby groups.

How is our government supporting it?

They literally voted for a ceasefire at the UNGA.....what exactly would you like the Australian Government to do?

Israel isn't the only bad guy in this story my man........as much as many seem to think that. It is far more nuanced than just Israel are being big bad mean people.

 

[treeebeard]

How is our government supporting it?

They literally voted for a ceasefire at the UNGA.....what exactly would you like the Australian Government to do?

Israel isn't the only bad guy in this story my man........as much as many seem to think that. It is far more nuanced than just Israel are being big bad mean people.

I didn't say that Israel is the only bad guy here, so don't conflate that with my comment.

Commentary from the government from day one was pro israeli along with







We supply weapons to Israel and won't say if they are being used as part of this ethnic cleansing campaign

And from DFAT website :
Australia has a warm and close relationship with Israel, which is supported strongly by Australia's active Jewish community.

I could go on, but to what end?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I didn't say that Israel is the only bad guy here, so don't conflate that with my comment.

Commentary from the government from day one was pro israeli along with

View attachment 1874701


View attachment 1874702


We supply weapons to Israel and won't say if they are being used as part of this ethnic cleansing campaign

And from DFAT website :
Australia has a warm and close relationship with Israel, which is supported strongly by Australia's active Jewish community.

I could go on, but to what end?

These are some really long drawn bows rofl.

Those images were projected and taken down IMMEDATLEY after a terrorist attack. They are not there now, are they? Nor have they been for over 2 months.

Australia's grand total of military exports to Israel totals a whopping $13 million, over the last 5 years which is essentially SFA.

At last check (literally a few days ago), the Australian Government voted for a ceasefire at the United Nations General Assembly, but instead of focusing on that as a positive, you are worried what color the opera house was 2 months ago as a negative.

I dont think you are being genuine. At all.

 

[Boston tiger]

So Gaza and West Bank aren’t free because of Israel’s occupation and apartheid?

It’s weird that Israel* isn’t marked down because of that.

At least put an asterix next to their name with a sidenote!

No because it’s because they execute people for homosexual activity and haven’t had elections since 2006. Stuff like that.

Israel has elections and recognise gay marriage performed outside its borders etc.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

No because it’s because they execute people for homosexual activity and haven’t had elections since 2006. Stuff like that.

Israel has elections and recognise gay marriage performed outside its borders etc.

So you don’t think Israel should lose marks?

 

[faible]

No because it’s because they execute people for homosexual activity and haven’t had elections since 2006. Stuff like that.

Israel has elections and recognise gay marriage performed outside its borders etc.

Ah, so if we simply isolate it to Israeli's in Israel and ignore the active oppression inflicted upon Palestinians - particularly in Gaza and the West Bank - by Israel then Israel is pretty great.

 

[Carn The Berries]

How is our government supporting it?

They literally voted for a ceasefire at the UNGA.....what exactly would you like the Australian Government to do?

Israel isn't the only bad guy in this story my man........as much as many seem to think that. It is far more nuanced than just Israel are being big bad mean people.

The issue is that one of the "big bad men" is being funded by a global financial super-power, and nobody is questioning it.

We voted yes to a non-binding call for a ceasefire... Yet we haven't said a word about the BILLIONS of dollars the US are pumping in to support Israel "defending itself". It's tacit support.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The issue is that one of the "big bad men" is being funded by a global financial super-power, and nobody is questioning it.

We voted yes to a non-binding call for a ceasefire... Yet we haven't said a word about the BILLIONS of dollars the US are pumping in to support Israel "defending itself". It's tacit support.

With all due respect, Israel is not the only one being funded here by other countries, they are just better funded than Hamas, they even funded hamas to a degree themselves. I dont see you getting up in arms about the Qataris etc funding a terrorist group as much as you are about the US funding Israel? Maybe i missed that post?

But anyways, what is it you would like the Australian government to do exactly? To remove this "tacit" support viewpoint you have.

We dont control or have any influence on the US's foreign policy. How would you want Australia to act? Do you suggest we start boycotting the USA?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Israel scores alright on V-dem democracy ratings. The rest of the region does come close.

Freedom House … Middle East

“Israel has the highest aggregate score (77) and is currently the only country rated Free in the region, though the government elected late in 2022 ran on a policy agenda that raised concerns about judicial independence and other core elements of democracy. Freedom House assesses the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip as separate territories, and both are rated Not Free.
Syria (1) has the worst aggregate score in the region, followed by Saudi Arabia (8).
Some 93 percent of the region’s people live in countries rated Not Free, while 4 percent live in Partly Free countries and 3 percent live in a Free country.

Given you wrote this in response to a call for a multi-ethnic, secular state, what point are you making here? That a multi-ethnic, secular state will be less free?

 

[Carn The Berries]

With all due respect, Israel is not the only one being funded here, they are just better funded than Hamas.

So what is it you would like the Australian government to do exactly? To remove this "tactit" support viewpoint you have.

We dont control or have any influence on the US's foreign policy. How would you want Australia to act? Do you suggest we start boycotting the USA?

With all due respect, Israel ARE the only one being funded by one of, if not our closest ally.

I would like to see Australia putting pressure on the US to reduce it's funding of Israeli operations, or at the very least put some caveats on getting the money (e.g. meaningful ceasefires, changes in strategy). Of course I'm not suggesting the we boycott the US, but it's not a binary "all or nothing" scenario. What you're suggesting is that we just stand by and say "oh well, it's our ally doing it, not us, so there is absolutely nothing we can do about it".

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Apologies if this has been posted already. It made me feel a bit sick.

Israel should make Gaza look like Auschwitz museum - council head

David Azoulai, head of the Metula Council, proposed sending all Gazans to refugee camps in Lebanon and flattening the whole Strip so it becomes an empty museum like Auschwitz.

m.jpost.com

 

[ferball]

Is it?

I'd say picking a side in this conflict is akin to supporting your favourite team, simply for the sake of it.

Neither side has covered themselves in glory: Israel for the continued oppression of the Palestinian people, of which there too many to list, and Palestinians for constant terror attacks on civilians in Israel, as well as getting kicked out of Egypt and Jordan for attempting to overthrow the governments there, before succeeding in Lebanon + being kicked out of Kuwait after the gulf war for supporting Iraq's invasion.

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying the Palestinian people and the Israeli government bear the same responsibility in this situation?

 

[ferball]

Israel scores alright on V-dem democracy ratings. The rest of the region does come close.

Freedom House … Middle East

“Israel has the highest aggregate score (77) and is currently the only country rated Free in the region, though the government elected late in 2022 ran on a policy agenda that raised concerns about judicial independence and other core elements of democracy. Freedom House assesses the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip as separate territories, and both are rated Not Free.
Syria (1) has the worst aggregate score in the region, followed by Saudi Arabia (8).
Some 93 percent of the region’s people live in countries rated Not Free, while 4 percent live in Partly Free countries and 3 percent live in a Free country.

There's video of humungous coppers kicking the crap out of little old orthodox men because they are protesting against this conflict in parts of Israel.

"Free".

 

[HirdsTheWord]

With all due respect, Israel ARE the only one being funded by one of, if not our closest ally.

I would like to see Australia putting pressure on the US to reduce it's funding of Israeli operations, or at the very least put some caveats on getting the money (e.g. meaningful ceasefires, changes in strategy). Of course I'm not suggesting the we boycott the US, but it's not a binary "all or nothing" scenario. What you're suggesting is that we just stand by and say "oh well, it's our ally doing it, not us, so there is absolutely nothing we can do about it".

Nah i didn't say that I'm simply saying you need to know what the reality is, and where Australia sits in that reality.

You have no idea none of those things are not occurring behind the scenes. Such discussions would likely never be made public. In any case in the real-world Australia does not that have that kind of "pressure" to put on the US. California has a bigger GDP then our whole country, whilst the US appreciates us, it likely doesn't give a flying **** what we say in all reality.

I'm not the one making black and white statements that our government is supporting Israel (original post) when at the same time we are voting for ceasefires. Like i have said, this is far more nuanced and complicated.

 

[ferball]

To be fair, this situation is far more nuanced than picking sides. Like some type of footy match.

If you are going to throw labels around willy nilly, what's occurring is far closer to Ethnic Cleansing than it is a Genocide.

Phew. That's a relief.

 

[bzparkes]

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying the Palestinian people and the Israeli government bear the same responsibility in this situation?

That's not what I'm saying at all, no.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

We are literally providing some of the satellite surveillance that is being used by Israel to select targets in Gaza

View attachment 1874748
Link to article

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this?

Hamas should be eliminated and if Australia can assist in doing that more accurately, I struggle to see how that is a bad thing?

Or are you suggesting Australia is targeting Civilians for the IDF? otherwise not entirely sure what your point is.