Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[ferball]

No because it’s because they execute people for homosexual activity and haven’t had elections since 2006. Stuff like that.

Israel has elections and recognise gay marriage performed outside its borders etc.

Same sex couples can't get married in Israel and Gaza has been under siege for decades and struggles to repair infrastructure from multiple Israeli bombing campaigns. Seriously you're a Palestinian in Gaza - would you trust standing in line to vote without being bombed?

 

[ferball]

That's not what I'm saying at all, no.

Well maybe edit this:

and Palestinians for constant terror attacks on civilians in Israel

Because it implies all Palestinians, in Gaza and the WB are responsible for those terror attacks. Could say some Palestinians instead.

Members of Israel's establishment - politicians and others - have basically said all Palestinians are responsible and called for collective punishment and that comment made it seem like you agree with that position.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

With all due respect, Israel is not the only one being funded here by other countries, they are just better funded than Hamas, they even funded hamas to a degree themselves. I dont see you getting up in arms about the Qataris etc funding a terrorist group as much as you are about the US funding Israel? Maybe i missed that post?

But anyways, what is it you would like the Australian government to do exactly? To remove this "tacit" support viewpoint you have.

We dont control or have any influence on the US's foreign policy. How would you want Australia to act? Do you suggest we start boycotting the USA?

How many war planes have Qatar provided to Hamas?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Nah i didn't say that I'm simply saying you need to know what the reality is, and where Australia sits in that reality.

You have no idea none of those things are not occurring behind the scenes. Such discussions would likely never be made public. In any case in the real-world Australia does not that have that kind of "pressure" to put on the US. California has a bigger GDP then our whole country, whilst US appreciates us, it likely doesn't give a flying * what we say in all reality.

I'm not the one making black and white statements that our government is supporting Israel (original post) when at the same time we are voting for ceasefires.

Why won't/shouldn't they be made public. As a voter, I can only go on what I'm told by the elected government. At no stage has the government given any indication that they are making any representations whatsoever to the US.

If they don't give a flying f* what we say, why wouldn't we come out and say it then... Unless... We don't actually want to.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Why won't/shouldn't they be made public. As a voter, I can only go on what I'm told by the elected government. At no stage has the government given any indication that they are making any representations whatsoever to the US.

If they don't give a flying f* what we say, why wouldn't we come out and say it then... Unless... We don't actually want to.

The fact Australia voted for a ceasefire shows you they are at odds with the US. It's entirely possible behind the scenes we are trying to put pressure on them. The problem is, we are ****in nobodies in reality. We can't just pick up the phone, make a call and say "that's enough", like we have any authority.

I doubt Australia wants to belittle itself on a global stage. Not to menton we are trying to buy nuclear subs from the US right now.

Why isn't it made public? Thats how it works. Contact your local member, i guess.

 

[ferball]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this?

Hamas should be eliminated and if Australia can assist in doing that more accurately, I struggle to see how that is a bad thing?

Or are you suggesting Australia is targeting Civilians for the IDF? otherwise not entirely sure what your point is.

You are aware that Israel uses an AI targeting system that includes journalists and doctors as legitimate targets and has a policy of inflicting maximum civilian damage to put pressure on Hamas from Palestinians civilians. Its been documented by Israeli sources, confirmed by western media and posted in this thread multiple times.

Israel has no interest in eliminating Hamas "accurately".

 

[HirdsTheWord]

How many war planes have Qatar provided to Hamas?

Is the reason you call out planes specifically because they not included in the rest of the hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of military gear hamas have got over the years from Iran or funded by Qatar?

Does the fact they didn't get planes, mean all the other funding they have got for weapons used for terror attacks render them meaningless or something?

 

[bzparkes]

Well maybe edit this:

and Palestinians for constant terror attacks on civilians in Israel

Because it implies all Palestinians, in Gaza and the WB are responsible for those terror attacks. Could say some Palestinians instead.

Members of Israel's establishment - politicians and others - have basically said all Palestinians are responsible and called for collective punishment and that comment made it seem like you agree with that position.

Semantics. Most people reading the post would understand the meaning behind it and that there's innocent people in every group, no matter the bad things wrought by certain individuals/leadership from said groups.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Is the reason you call out planes specifically because they not included in the rest of the hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of military gear hamas have got over the years from Iran or funded by Qatar?

Does the fact they didn't get planes, mean all the other funding they have got for weapons used for terror attacks render them meaningless or something?

Qatar could be providing nuclear weapons for all I care. They are not a major ally of ours (I'm would argue they're not really one at all, given we have limited how often they can fly here). It's a false equivalence, regardless of the type of hardware we're talking about.

 

[treeebeard]

Our government should condemning, strongly, ****ed up armies like this, instead of supporting them.




BTW, voting for a ceasefire is not a strong stance. It's the bare minimum we should expect of Australia. They only were dragged there by public sentiment just recently anyway. Hie many votes did they abstain from before that?

 

[DangerousD]

Netanyahu is a right wing murderous nut who no one is supporting now. He doesn't want a two state solution, he just wants to murder and terrorize.
It's only him and the nutter zealot settlers who are backing him now.
He needs to resign.

I really like your posting so I’m interested to know your thoughts.

What would Netanyahu resigning achieve?

I thought i have seen the opposing side in Israeli politics suggest he isn’t doing enough in the conflict with HAMAS. So what I’m asking is, will the alternative be any better?

 

[DangerousD]

Is it?

I'd say picking a side in this conflict is akin to supporting your favourite team, simply for the sake of it.

Neither side has covered themselves in glory: Israel for the continued oppression of the Palestinian people, of which there too many to list, and Palestinians for constant terror attacks on civilians in Israel, as well as getting kicked out of Egypt and Jordan for attempting to overthrow the governments there, before succeeding in Lebanon + being kicked out of Kuwait after the gulf war for supporting Iraq's invasion.

Is either 'side' worthy of support?

Obviously civilians needs to be protected and have the right to live peacefully. This s**t's been going on for more than most of us have been alive however and with the current attitudes/views of both sides, it'll continue to do so.

The only 'positive' in this, from a geopolitical standpoint anyway, is that many of Israel's allies are beginning to distance themselves.

You can only call people 'amtisemitic' for valid criticism for so long before they see through your bullshit.

If Australia or the USA decided to stop supporting Israel or stopped funding due to the atrocities that are happening, is it supporting HAMAS/Palestine?

Like many here, calling out Israel isn’t supporting HAMAS, can’t a world response be similar?

Stepping in to stop what i think is a land grab and a population displacement, doesn’t mean you have to pick sides does it?

 

[bzparkes]

If Australia or the USA decided to stop supporting Israel or stopped funding due to the atrocities that are happening, is it supporting HAMAS/Palestine?

Like many here, calling out Israel isn’t supporting HAMAS, can’t a world response be similar?

Stepping in to stop what i think is a land grab and a population displacement, doesn’t mean you have to pick sides does it?

The West needs to stop supporting Israel to make them very aware that there are lines that cannot be crossed, especially when you constantly go around saying 'Never again' and calling everyone anti-semitic/Nazis when they criticise you, yet enact the same atrocities upon a people powerless to defend themselves against it.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Is the reason you call out planes specifically because they not included in the rest of the hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of military gear hamas have got over the years from Iran or funded by Qatar?

Does the fact they didn't get planes, mean all the other funding they have got for weapons used for terror attacks render them meaningless or something?

No, it’s because you are trying to both sides a conflict where one side has no air force or navy.

Over 20000 dead from carpet bombing, but thats fine because Hamas?

 

[Saint]

If the west were sticking to its morals, the west would be deploying troops to the West Bank and kicking all the Settlers out of the West Bank and lifting the illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel.

We'd be chasing down the funding of Hamas and freezing assets.

We'd be nationally and individually boycotting Israeli (and Gazan) products.

But instead we do nothing, in case we get called nasty names by people who are calling Greta Thunberg and the Pope Anti-Semites.

If you haven't been called an anti-semite yet, have you even stood up for your beliefs?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Qatar could be providing nuclear weapons for all I care. They are not a major ally of ours (I'm would argue they're not really one at all, given we have limited how often they can fly here). It's a false equivalence, regardless of the type of hardware we're talking about.

i dont care if you care.

Israel is not the only one being funded in this situation which was the point.

Just FYI Australia's trade with Qatar (2.8B) is double what it is with Israel ($1.3). Why aren't you also asking for Australia to put pressure on Qatar to limit funding to Hamas?

 

[Saint]

No, it’s because you are trying to both sides a conflict where one side has no air force or navy.

Over 20000 dead from carpet bombing, but thats fine because Hamas?

600 civilians killed vs 20,000

0 Displaced vs 1,500,0000

0 Legal avenues to justice vs Enacting a vengeful war across multiple territories.

0 Lasting damage vs near-Completely destroyed heritage, history and livelihoods.



It's not a war, it's a slaughter of an occupied people.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

No, it’s because you are trying to both sides a conflict where one side has no air force or navy.

Over 20000 dead from carpet bombing, but thats fine because Hamas?

BS - i have never said what Israel have done is OK - and you know it.

Hamas knew exactly what would happen though when they did what they did though. Doesn't matter what level of military they have, they are culpable in this just as much as Israel are.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

BS - i have never said what Israel have done is OK - and you know it.

Yet you are happy for Australia to support and help fund Israel.

You cant see anything wrong with that?

 

[bzparkes]

I think, one consequence is that the West has completely destroyed its moral legitimacy in two months. The US, and by extension Australia, has no leg to stand on when it comes to geopolitics.

The UN has proven to be toothless. The international criminal court is ignored.

What happens once these power structures completely crumble?

Scary times ahead

Well, the 'options' are China and Russia.

Like it or not, I don't think countries that are currently allies of the USA are going to move away.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Hamas knew exactly what would happen though when they did what they did though. Doesn't matter what level of military they have, they are culpable in this just as much as Israel are.

So you would be happy for Australia to support and fund Hamas, at the same level as they do Israel?

Because they are both the same, yeah?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

There is nothing wrong with providing intelligence support to a country that is perpetuating ethnic cleansing?

We know that Israel is indiscriminately bombing non military targets including hospitals, mosques, schools, homes and apartment buildings. We know Israel are deliberately targeting non combatants, particularly those critical of them including over 70 journalists and who knows how many UN aid workers. We know that Israel is killing civilians at a greater ratio and a greater rate than any modern conflict.

And we can safely assume that Israel is using some Australian intelligence to select these targets.

And you think there is absolutely nothing wrong with this?

No, we dont know all of that, you are alleging it. If the IDF are deliberately targeting civilians that will be picked up as Genocide which is a war crime proven in court.

I have no issues with Australia providing Hamas military target information to the IDF. If proof is provided that Australia is providing civilian targets i am happy to denounce it.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Yet you are happy for Australia to support and help fund Israel.

You cant see anything wrong with that?

13 million over 5 years?

I have no issues with that support level.

 

[Carn The Berries]

i dont care if you care.

Israel is not the only one being funded in this situation which was the point.

Just FYI Australia's trade with Qatar (2.8B) is double what it is with Israel ($1.3). Why aren't you also asking for Australia to put pressure on Qatar to limit funding to Hamas?

Yep... And our trade with the US is... $77.1 billion... Might have been useful to include that when talking about our interactions with nations who are funding the war.

But yeah, you keep telling yourself that our relationship with those who fund Hamas is as important as those who fund Israel.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

So you would be happy for Australia to support and fund Hamas, at the same level as they do Israel?

Because they are both the same, yeah?

I have never said they are "the same".

Arnet you the guy that gets a little bit unsettled when people put words in your mouth?