Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Sir_Loin]

I think it's always sad when civilians are killed or injured due to the actions of others in their country, that they had little control over. And I hope anyone sad for the civilians of one side, would express the same compassion for those of the other who are suffering. Particularly the Palestinian civilians getting shelled into oblivion now, because the majority of Australians seem to already be showing compassion for the Israelis.

The usual yobbos are calling for, in effect, the complete annihilation of the Palestinian people.

Spoiler: Angry little chopping board thrower

View attachment 1825981

This is just as wrong as it would be for the annihilation of any other ethnic group, and we should all be better than that.

Well I wouldn’t be using Ari as the yardstick of civilisation. He’s a fringe extremist wife beater.

 

[Sir_Loin]

They said Palestine, not Hamas. You acknowledge Palestine is more than Hamas, yet there's a narrative amongst some that Palestinian civilians deserve what they get, where Ukrainian civilians don't.

Who said that?

 

[Sir_Loin]

Good resource to follow. Expert in urban warfare.

 

[QuietB]

I think it's always sad when civilians are killed or injured due to the actions of others in their country, that they had little control over. And I hope anyone sad for the civilians of one side, would express the same compassion for those of the other who are suffering. Particularly the Palestinian civilians getting shelled into oblivion now, because the majority of Australians seem to already be showing compassion for the Israelis.

The usual yobbos are calling for, in effect, the complete annihilation of the Palestinian people.

Spoiler: Angry little chopping board thrower

View attachment 1825981

This is just as wrong as it would be for the annihilation of any other ethnic group, and we should all be better than that.

We are about to vote NO to aboriginal recognition in the constitution so it is hardly surprising.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Who said that?

All over Twitter. If you want examples, let me know and I'll post them a bit later.

 

[QuietB]

A lot of things don’t make sense atm. The complete failure of Israeli Intelligence..even US Intelligence. The timing by Hamas as things were going poorly for Netanyahu with protests etc. Now this will unite Israel behind him. Clearly Iran behind it and some suggest the proposed Saudi/Israel/US agreement behind their motive and this is a ploy to delay that. To the cost of course of innocent people and in particular Pal

US would be getting their intelligence from Israel - as Dennis Ross stated "There’s no particular reason why the U.S. would be training enormous intelligence assets on Hamas, which has never been a threat to us. So it’s pretty hard to say this was a failure on our part. But I think it’s unmistakable that it’s an Israeli intelligence failure."

There is every chance Netanyahu is happy this has happened and maybe even let it happen.

Hamas is evil, but so is Netanyahu.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

We are about to vote NO to aboriginal recognition in the constitution so it is hardly surprising.

No we're not

 

[Bareth Garry]

With Netanyahu at his all time political low among the Israeli public for months having protests over his concentration of power over judicial reforms, along with the Saudi-Israel-US deal that seemed imminent with the Saudi side indicating part of their agreement hinged on concessions regarding Palestine, this is a historic tragedy. I think what Israel's leaders have done over the decades in terms of their force and killing of Palestinians as well as the land grabs was extremely one-sided in comparison to the terrorism against them and the barrier to any agreement. What Hamas has done has condemned the innocent people in the occupied territories to a degree of force not yet unleashed before. Public opinion has shifted massively around the world to the Palestinian case and rightly in my view and I think that extended within Israel too as a younger generation takes over and didn't experience the atrocities committed against Israel and the Jewish people of the 20th century which their forefathers did and never experienced a major attack themselves. Now they have. Older Israeli citizens would have fought in the 1967 war and the 1973 war.

I look at the Palestinians in the West Bank who have been crushed for years and from that perspective you can understand why people launch rockets and turn to violence. It creates terrorism when a larger more powerful force extracts your resources and leaves you with a boot on the neck. However Hamas's acts of terror within Israel and which they even paraded on video themselves killing, raping, kidnapping ordinary Israelis has gone out to the world and from the Israeli perspective they now think all the things they warned about as an existential threat did happen. Netanyahu's been talking about the imminent threat of Iran having nuclear capabilities for a good decade and that Iran's intent is to wipe Israel off the map. The Iranian nuclear deal happened once in spite of his protests. But now if it was on life support last week it absolutely is dead now.

 

[QuietB]

(And Big Footy)

This is the most frustrating thing though - the only viable solution is known. But neither side or any other player in the region will allow it.

 

[Gethelred]

True muslims and Jews don't actually despise eachother (nor Christians) since they are largely the same religion. The troubles happen when you have leadership that uses religion to enforce their will (Hamas and Iran as current examples and Christianity in the past) and culture/circumstances eg. The Palestinians who are fundamentally good people but are poor, badly educated and the actions of Hamas cause a spiral of hatred (blame Israel for blocking aid but don't let it be know it is because they were hiding weapons in aid)

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

'No true Scotsman'.

Religion is as religion does.

 

[Gethelred]

Curse those damn activists for trying to make the world liveable.

Post on topic, please.

 

[Sir_Loin]

All over Twitter. If you want examples, let me know and I'll post them a bit later.

Ah Twitter.

 

[Ballarat Bob]

Hamas are absolute scum and their actions have put back the Palestinian cause decades.
If Israel want to try and invade Gaza it could backfire really badly in the number of civilian casualties and the potential loss of hostages (both Israeli and foreign). A urban conflict within Gaza would suit Hamas as it would give them a chance to inflict more casualties on the IDF. It could backfire if Israel does regain control of Gaza , Hamas would cease to exist except in exile.
Don't think Hezbollah will get involved unless directly attacked by Israel , Lebanon is not in a good place economically and they could possibly lose significant support if they trigger another conflict with Israel.
Israel really needs to work out a strategy of how they are going to respond without lashing out at everyone and everything at the same time.
They might want to raze Gaza to the ground , attack Iran with airstrikes even try and push back Hezbollah from southern Lebanon but they can overstretch themselves and go too hard especially with inflicting civilian casualties.
Once the shooting stops there is going to be a lot of pressure on the current government in Israel to explain how all the security services missed this. Hamas has never been able to mount an operation like this , to not only cross the border in so many areas but then stay in Israel and actively engage the IDF and take hostages and massacre civilians.
Someone is going to have to fall on their sword over this wouldn't surprise me if the current Netanyahu government collapses once things eventually calm down.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

All over Twitter. If you want examples, let me know and I'll post them a bit later.

By all over twitter you are probably talking about .0001% of the population. This is the biggest problem with social media

 

[The Sultan]

for those (like me) who were not quite what sure what all this relates back to.. quick 10 minute summary of the last 3000 odd years in the region. Disclaimer: Not sure how biased/balanced this is.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

By all over twitter you are probably talking about .0001% of the population. This is the biggest problem with social media

True. Unfortunately I can't poll a representative sample of the general public and get them to tell me their real feelings. The professional pollsters likely haven't had much time to get opinions either.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Someone is going to have to fall on their sword over this wouldn't surprise me if the current Netanyahu government collapses once things eventually calm down.

I expect the complete opposite. They'll just blame Shin Bet and Mossad for the failure and get high popularity as governments at war almost always do.

 

[Saint]

I expect the complete opposite. They'll just blame Shin Bet and Mossad for the failure and get high popularity as governments at war almost always do.

While they're at war, yes, the country will be united. But, keep in mind, the threat will be neutralised in days (if not already).

If Netanyahu occupies Gaza, Israeli soldiers will be killed every other day, but it will keep them in a perpetual state of war to keep his popularity high enough that he doesn't get the boot yet.

Bibi will definitely prioritise keeping the threat high to keep himself in power than saving IDF lives, let alone civilians, especially Palestinian ones.

What Hamas has done hurts Palestinians in Gaza more than anyone. There's no way the population would be in support of Hamas if elections were held.

 

[Festerz]

Speaking of cheap and nasty populist binary politicking…

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Guardian.
Australian at Israeli music festival 'heard whispers of bullets' overhead fleeing Hamas attack
An Australian man has spoken to ABC Melbourne about his terrifying ordeal escaping from a music festival in the Israeli desert as Hamas militants launched an attack.

Daniel Moritz was at the Supernova music festival with his friends – located near the Gaza strip – and described to host Raf Epstein how they first heard bombs overhead:

Around 6am we notice bombings above our heads. No sirens, nothing … totally surprised, unaware and unprotected.

Moritz said he gathered his friends, they left all their belongings behind and left in a car, which they had parked close to the entrance.

We found actually a hole in the fence [so] we managed to get out faster, then we started to head north … and suddenly a machine gun started going off, just shooting us full force.

We heard the whispers of the bullets flying over our heads.

We were ducking down in the car and driver, one of our good friends of ours, is post-traumatic already. He was totally in stress. Everyone was stressed.

At least 260 bodies were discovered at the site of the all-night festival, and dozens more are still missing.

Moritz said “it’s not a casual thing that civilians see terrorists before the army does”:

It’s the first time for like 50 years that Israel weren’t prepared for some kind of attack.

… The army usually is there all the time and protecting us all the time, we feel protected 24/7 … things don’t happen in the day to day life [like that] here.

 

[Ballarat Bob]

I expect the complete opposite. They'll just blame Shin Bet and Mossad for the failure and get high popularity as governments at war almost always do.

Would normally agree with you but the scale of Israeli losses are unprecedented in modern times. Regardless of the response to Hamas there are going to be a lot of bereaved family members asking why hundreds of Israelis have died while the security forces floundered around in the dark.
The fate of the hostages in Gaza will also be a big factor. If Israel goes for full invasion of Gaza , Hamas will no doubt kill off the hostages if cornered. If Israel doesn't invade then either the hostages are kept indefinitely or they have to do deals with Hamas for their release. Neither of these scenarios are going to help Netanhyiu , his coalition is pretty shakey at the best of times.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I hope hamas is ready for comes next, and what it will bring upon the citizens of Gaza.

makes you feel bloody lucky we live in Australia.

 

[fs88]

What a bizarro situation where Avi is on the same side as Albanese and Ukraine etc...

General rule of thumb in life is to do the opposite of what Avi and his mates say, so it feels like the correct answer is Palestine should be allowed to fight against their oppression, but the way that Hamas are doing it (attacking defenceless civilians at music festivals and bus stops) is not the correct way and doesn't help things. Why didn't Hamas attack purely military targets?

 

[Sir_Loin]

What? You better delete that mate

Why. Factually correct. Report it if you need to.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Here's some info on the veracity of that map.

Fact Check: MSNBC's Palestinian Loss of Land Map | IMEU

MSNBC apologized for a map it aired showing loss of Palestinian land to Zionist settlers and then to Israel from 1946 to the present. The following is a fact check of MSNBC’s map and the criticisms of it.

imeu.org