Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Sir_Loin]

From John Spencer quoting RAND

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

IF it is for general purposes you would link it. What have you (yourself personally) got to hide here ?

Nothing mate it's all from the Guardian blog, I forgot to attribute it.
It's factual so get over it. Not sure why you're getting your knickers in a twist.

 

[Bloods86]

no you are missing the point

we live in Australia, thousands of kilometres from these places. its not for us to determine whats reasonable when their county is being attacked.

If there was ever a terrorist attack on our soil i guantree you our leader would be saying the exact same things as these other countries governments are.

Howard, Ardern were much more measured when speaking about the Bali bombings, Christchurch attacks from memory. Obviously the situations are different and at least in regards to Christchurch not a co-ordinated attack by multiple assailants from a particular organisation.

I'm not missing the point, Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders have been vitriolic in the past, and they'll continue to be. We can understand visceral reactions to horrific incidents, but they know it doesn't help the situation. It will just feed into the cycle.

In any case it was more a comment about pointing to GWB as a benchmark, which was odd.

 

[Froffinho]

Delete that accusation . I have said on numerous occasions that Hamas are racist scum.
Half the Israeli population despise Netanyahu , he is a corrupt war monger implementing apatheid policies.
The main newspaper in Israel blamed Netanyahu's policies as contributing to this. He does not represent all Jewish people. He represents a far right element.
Delete that or I'll report it.

Perhaps you should study history rather than read a couple of articles and espouse your ridiculous views for others to see. That's dangerous.

My comment is not reportable. But for your sake, I will correct some other things in your silly post-
1. Bibi isn't a corrupt warmonger at all, nor does he implement apartheid policies.
2. I presume you mean Ha'aretz, which is not the main newspaper. Rather it is a left wing newspaper.
3. He is the PM, he presently represents the Israeli (not just Jewish) people.

Feel free to whinge more about post. I will worry about my cousins in Israel, not just those who are now called up to hopefully put an end to Hamas' regime.

 

[Kwality]

Are we really using GWB as the benchmark for what's considered reasonable rhetoric?

Look over hear (sic).

 

[bzparkes]

Because you need to answer the question I posed to you. Answer it. Bring facts, not feelings.

Lol.

Copy, copy, copy.

Why don't you show the statistics, considering you're the one making the claim?

Don't be lazy and look it up.

Try facts, not feelings.

 

[QuietB]

Yeah and the constant indiscriminate bombing of civilians, whilst enforcing a blockade so they have no way to escape and for good measure cutting off the supply of food, water, medicine and power is a real winner. All Israel will achieve is radicalising the next generation of freedom fighters/terrorist

Which suits Netanyahu just fine.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Perhaps you should study history rather than read a couple of articles and espouse your ridiculous views for others to see. That's dangerous.

My comment is not reportable. But for your sake, I will correct some other things in your silly post-
1. Bibi isn't a corrupt warmonger at all, nor does he implement apartheid policies.
2. I presume you mean Ha'aretz, which is not the main newspaper. Rather it is a left wing newspaper.
3. He is the PM, he presently represents the Israeli (not just Jewish) people.

Feel free to whinge more about post. I will worry about my cousins in Israel, not just those who are now called up to hopefully put an end to Hamas' regime.

Labelling your own people and me anti-semetic for opposing Netanayahu is defamatory.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Howard, Ardern were much more measured when speaking about the Bali bombings, Christchurch attacks from memory. Obviously the situations are different and at least in regards to Christchurch not a co-ordinated attack by multiple assailants from a particular organisation.

I'm not missing the point, Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders have been vitriolic in the past, and they'll continue to be. We can understand visceral reactions to horrific incidents, but they know it doesn't help the situation. It will just feed into the cycle.

In any case it was more a comment about pointing to GWB as a benchmark, which was odd.

both the USA and Israel have History of these attacks, from the same organisations. So you'd argue they have built up tension. I dont bare them ill will by their verbal responses. I think it's being read far too into.

We didn't prior to Bali and neither did the NZ. Not great comparisons.

 

[Bloods86]

Perhaps you should study history rather than read a couple of articles and espouse your ridiculous views for others to see. That's dangerous.

My comment is not reportable. But for your sake, I will correct some other things in your silly post-
1. Bibi isn't a corrupt warmonger at all, nor does he implement apartheid policies.
2. I presume you mean Ha'aretz, which is not the main newspaper. Rather it is a left wing newspaper.
3. He is the PM, he presently represents the Israeli (not just Jewish) people.

Feel free to whinge more about post. I will worry about my cousins in Israel, not just those who are now called up to hopefully put an end to Hamas' regime.

1) That's your opinion

3) May have been a slip of the tongue, but certainly interesting that Netanyahu has previously said that Israel is not a state for all of its citizens, before clarifying that non Jewish citizens had equal rights etc.

 

[QuietB]

Perhaps you should study history rather than read a couple of articles and espouse your ridiculous views for others to see. That's dangerous.

My comment is not reportable. But for your sake, I will correct some other things in your silly post-
1. Bibi isn't a corrupt warmonger at all, nor does he implement apartheid policies.
2. I presume you mean Ha'aretz, which is not the main newspaper. Rather it is a left wing newspaper.
3. He is the PM, he presently represents the Israeli (not just Jewish) people.

Feel free to whinge more about post. I will worry about my cousins in Israel, not just those who are now called up to hopefully put an end to Hamas' regime.

What are your views on Netanyahu introducing laws to allow the parliament to overturn judicial decisions?

 

[Bloods86]

both the USA and Israel have History of these attacks, from the same organisations. So you'd argue they have built up tension. I dont bare them ill will by their verbal responses. I think it's being read far too into.

We didn't prior to Bali and neither did the NZ. Not great comparisons.

Moving the goalposts a bit there, but I did acknowledge they are different situations.

 

[por_please_ya]

All I can think about whilst all this is happening is the books I've read, and the films I've watched from this part of the world.

I read a stunning novel back in 2017 called All The Rivers by Dorit Rabinyan, who was born in Israel into an Iranian Jewish family. It's about the transient relationship of a Jewish woman and Palestinian man who happen to meet whilst temporarily living in New York City. I believe it's based on her real life friendship with talented Palestinian artist Hasan Hourani who died in 2003, he drowned in the sea off the coast of Jaffa; Rabinyan wrote him a beautiful eulogy. In the book (and no doubt in real life!) the characters debate Israel and Palestine. They both make convincing arguments; she is for the two-state compromise with borders from 1967, and he is for an idealistic binational approach, going back to before 1948 with no borders. All The Rivers was BANNED in Israel! (not sure if that's still the case). God forbid somebody promote and advocate for a friendship/relationship between an Israeli Jew and a Palestinian Muslim...

It's also interesting during my readings that Mizrahi Jews in Israel (those of Middle Eastern ancestry, like Yemeni, Persian, Iraqi, Moroccan etc) make up at least half of all Jews, and yet are under-represented in books and film. Ashkenazi Jewish stories (white Eastern European) seem to make up the majority. I feel like there is definitely an undercurrent of colourism occurring in Israel even within its own Jewish population.

I'm putting this under a spoiler as some people probably don't care lol but here are some Israeli-Palestinian films I recommend:

Spoiler: Films from the region

These are actually all screencaptures from my IMDb List, don't mind my comments lol!





This isn't set in Israel or Palestine but it's still about the friendship between two women, one Jewish and one Muslim.

 

[vindaloo]

Moira Deeming attends a women's rally - there's a couple of Nazi's in attendance - outrage.
Sections of the Greens/left attend a Palestinian rally in protest of the lighting of the Opera House in solidarity for the Jewish community post the indiscriminate slaughter of Jewish people. Outright antisemitic vitriol is spewed. Outright support for the indiscriminate slaughter of Jewish people. An Israeli is arrested for waving a Jewish flag. You'd think everyone in attendance have a lot to answer for. As for the Palestinian response - oh most were peaceful there was only dozens and dozens of people joining us celebrating the slaughter of Jewish people. It's absurd.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Moving the goalposts a bit there, but I did acknowledge they are different situations.

nope i didnt

but lets agree to disagree

 

[Cap]

Yeah and the constant indiscriminate bombing of civilians, whilst enforcing a blockade so they have no way to escape and for good measure cutting off the supply of food, water, medicine and power is a real winner. All Israel will achieve is radicalising the next generation of freedom fighters/terrorist

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you.

But Hamas, now realising how ****ed they are, could, with international backing, unconditionally surrender, give up the hostages and avoid the bloodshed.

That would put the ball firmly back in Israel's camp on the optics of Palestine.

 

[SM]

All I can think about whilst all this is happening is the books I've read, and the films I've watched from this part of the world.

I read a stunning novel back in 2017 called All The Rivers by Dorit Rabinyan, who was born in Israel into an Iranian Jewish family. It's about the transient relationship of a Jewish woman and Palestinian man who happen to meet whilst temporarily living in New York City. I believe it's based on her real life friendship with talented Palestinian artist Hasan Hourani who died in 2003, he drowned in the sea off the coast of Jaffa; Rabinyan wrote him a beautiful eulogy. In the book (and no doubt in real life!) the characters debate Israel and Palestine. They both make convincing arguments; she is for the two-state compromise with borders from 1967, and he is for an idealistic binational approach, going back to before 1948 with no borders. All The Rivers was BANNED in Israel! (not sure if that's still the case). God forbid somebody promote and advocate for a friendship/relationship between an Israeli Jew and a Palestinian Muslim...

It's also interesting during my readings that Mizrahi Jews in Israel (those of Middle Eastern ancestry, like Yemeni, Persian, Iraqi, Moroccan etc) make up at least half of all Jews, and yet are under-represented in books and film. Ashkenazi Jewish stories (white Eastern European) seem to make up the majority. I feel like there is definitely an undercurrent of colourism occurring in Israel even within its own Jewish population.

I'm putting this under a spoiler as some people probably don't care lol but here are some Israeli-Palestinian films I recommend:

Spoiler: Films from the region

These are actually all screencaptures from my IMDb List, don't mind my comments lol!

View attachment 1827166
View attachment 1827174
View attachment 1827176

This isn't set in Israel or Palestine but it's still about the friendship between two women, one Jewish and one Muslim.
View attachment 1827177
View attachment 1827178
View attachment 1827184
View attachment 1827187
View attachment 1827188
View attachment 1827191

My grandparents met in Israel post-WW2 - a Jewish refugee from Germany and an Irish Catholic soldier. My Dad actually recently wrote up some of the family history so your post has prompted me to try to dig it up and read it.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

From a victims perspective the attack at the Supernova festival was during the main set. In terms of vulnerability it couldn’t have been a worse time for them.

What would've been the best time for the attack?

 

[Sir_Loin]

What would've been the best time for the attack?

For the victims probably when they weren’t so inebriated and sleep deprived.

Goes to the level of sophistication on the attack of a defenceless civilian target. Just think about it for a couple seconds before popping off like a campaigner

 

[Toump Ass]

War in the age of Social Media is ****ed isn't it.

My twitter feed is supposed to be thots, Techno DJs promoting their latest mix, Magic the Gathering updates.
Now it's pictures of dead bodies and videos of kidnapped children and people running for their lives from a doof party.

It's horrible and gutrenching stuff.

 

[Froffinho]

Labelling your own people and me anti-semetic for opposing Netanayahu is defamatory.

Seems you also can't read, although I'm not too surprised.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you.

But Hamas, now realising how ****ed they are, could, with international backing, unconditionally surrender, give up the hostages and avoid the bloodshed.

That would put the ball firmly back in Israel's camp on the optics of Palestine.

hamas giving up blood shed would go against their very purpose

 

[Froffinho]

What are your views on Netanyahu introducing laws to allow the parliament to overturn judicial decisions?

I would rather avoid changing the topic of this thread, is there another thread somewhere where this is discussed.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

For the victims probably when they weren’t so inebriated and sleep deprived.

Goes to the level of sophistication on the attack of a defenceless civilian target. Just think about it for a couple seconds before popping off like a campaigner

Settle down sweetheart.
You stated the attack couldn't have come at a worse time.
I was just wondering what is a good time to be attacked.
You certainly bit hard.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Settle down sweetheart

Keep posting proves my point