Scape Goat I've lost my faith in Ken Hinkley Part 2

[Ilias M]

11 loses x $10 x 10,000 fans who want Hinkley gone = $1,100,000 in the kitty at end of 2019. Interest at 2.5% for 6 months = $13,750 start 2020 with $1,113,750 in the bank. koch wont sack him in 2019 so will have to get it ready for a mid 2020 to end of 2020 payout with 10,000 fans contributing again.

I’d be happy to up at $20 can we add Voss to it

 

[scotty13]

Is 'Defend to Attack' not a negative to influence a positive?

I would rather an Attack to negate Defence motto... if you attack attack attack and force other teams to just defend, then that will win you games... Defence doesn't win games, attack does... as long as you score more than your opposition you will win... you can defend all you like, but if you cannot score then it is pointless

 

[El_Scorcho]

Game plan or no game plan our skills are still average and never get better despite millions upon millions spent since Koch came aboard

I'm a big believer that our skills look bad because we don't have a system for moving the ball.

Remember we've basically turned over 7/8ths of the squad in the Hinkley era. We didn't get really unlucky moving on bad kicks and recruiting new bad kicks.

A kick is easy when your system generates space for players to lead into and when you know where the options will be. A kick is hard when you've got the ball with precious few options, which aren't necessarily in predictable spots and are always very quickly closed down at this level.

 

[afl2004]

I'm a big believer that our skills look bad because we don't have a system for moving the ball.

Remember we've basically turned over 7/8ths of the squad in the Hinkley era. We didn't get really unlucky moving on bad kicks and recruiting new bad kicks.

A kick is easy when your system generates space for players to lead into and when you know where the options will be. A kick is hard when you've got the ball with precious few options, which aren't necessarily in predictable spots and are always very quickly closed down at this level.

I guess but our kicking cost us big in 13/14 but i guess our systems broke down a fair bit as well but Ebert wines and boak are shit kicks and they have been our main guys during the Hinkley era

 

[edgie]

I guess but our kicking cost us big in 13/14 but i guess our systems broke down a fair bit as well but Ebert wines and boak are shit kicks and they have been our main guys during the Hinkley era

Funny enough in those years those three guys were close to our most reliable shots on goal along with Schulz and Wingard


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[afl2004]

Funny enough in those years those three guys were close to our most reliable shots on goal along with Schulz and Wingard


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Yeah, amazing how boak is a worse set shot even though he's been a forward for 2 years lol

 

[Andre]

I'm a big believer that our skills look bad because we don't have a system for moving the ball.

Remember we've basically turned over 7/8ths of the squad in the Hinkley era. We didn't get really unlucky moving on bad kicks and recruiting new bad kicks.

A kick is easy when your system generates space for players to lead into and when you know where the options will be. A kick is hard when you've got the ball with precious few options, which aren't necessarily in predictable spots and are always very quickly closed down at this level.

Skills on game day are both gameplan and underlying skills. We still have lots of players with underlying poor skills (specifically kicking). If skills go along a continuum from awful - bad - average - good - elite, then (except for maybe those recruited from another sport late) you can only improve a player from what they were when drafted by one category IMO.

With the possible exceptions of rucks and inside mids I’d put a line through drafting any player whose kicking is worse then average, no matter their other skills. Any gameplan is going to struggle if players can’t kick to teammates who aren’t 20 metres on their own, without risking a turnover.

 

[yepits2020]

So is it defence first footy or attack at all cost footy??

If the later, then there has been a seismic shift in Hinkley's thinking.

Why the change? Because the first philosophy was an abject failure - when it mattered in the big games?

True. We tried. We failed. Learn and move in. That is why I am a lot more positive this year.

Interesting thing is though that when we looked like making the top four, most people were not talking like that. The only problem most of us had was that entry into the forward line was still bad. We tried to fix it with personnel and too much effort. Hind sight is a wonderful thing.

 

[yepits2020]

I'm a big believer that our skills look bad because we don't have a system for moving the ball.

Remember we've basically turned over 7/8ths of the squad in the Hinkley era. We didn't get really unlucky moving on bad kicks and recruiting new bad kicks.

A kick is easy when your system generates space for players to lead into and when you know where the options will be. A kick is hard when you've got the ball with precious few options, which aren't necessarily in predictable spots and are always very quickly closed down at this level.

Tend to agree. Even in the under 23 game, we seem to give too much space to the opposition when they have the ball and we seem to be working in less space when we have it. So either they are good, or we are bad at things like closing space or creating space.

 

[Pablo Escobar]

Skills on game day are both gameplan and underlying skills. We still have lots of players with underlying poor skills (specifically kicking). If skills go along a continuum from awful - bad - average - good - elite, then (except for maybe those recruited from another sport late) you can only improve a player from what they were when drafted by one category IMO.

With the possible exceptions of rucks and inside mids I’d put a line through drafting any player whose kicking is worse then average, no matter their other skills. Any gameplan is going to struggle if players can’t kick to teammates who aren’t 20 metres on their own, without risking a turnover.

Herein lies our problem, our club has drafted players with average foot skills and you continue to pay and pay for those mistakes. Some of the newer draftees look a bit better but it has stuffed up most of this decade. Combine these skills with our game plan the last few years and it is no wonder we have achieved the results we have. You can see the players heads drop further and further in games every kick that misses an easy target. We can barely kick to advantage yet alone hit a guy lace out.

 

[PhoenixPower]

Come in for some chips anytime mate!

you wont need to put any salt on them, think old mate is bringing plenty of his own

 

[raptalia]

Page 334 - it might be time to start Part 3.

Given recent events I think Ken will be under more pressure than ever in 2019 and I can see this thread getting a real workout.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Story in today's Oz about Buckley getting 2 years extension and looks at Goodwin as well. It's by Greg Denham.

https://outline.com/AWWYEF
Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin remains the only senior coach to not be secured beyond this season after Collingwood yesterday awarded Nathan Buckley a two-year extension.However, Goodwin is expected to be locked away by the Demons before the start of the home-and-away season. Like Buckley, he too is set to be handed a new two-year contract.

In a strong sign of stability, for the first time in 13 years, the 18 AFL senior coaches this season remain the same as the previous year.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...e/news-story/5e4855734f7c95b91b8b4b14f4054417

The reason for stability Greg is because of the 100% tax on soft cap of football department expenditure over the cap, causing clubs to hang to their coaches closer to their contract end date. There was a table of the coaches terms. A footnote to the table says Hinkley supposedly has a performance clause trigger for final year option to extend past 2020 to 2021 (3rd year as announced in Septemer 2017). It better be a lot bloody tougher hurdle than just make finals in 2020 and clause says it doesn't matter if we dont win finals in 2020.

 

[Papa G]

Story in today's Oz about Buckley getting 2 years extension and looks at Goodwin as well. It's by Greg Denham.

https://outline.com/AWWYEF
Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin remains the only senior coach to not be secured beyond this season after Collingwood yesterday awarded Nathan Buckley a two-year extension.However, Goodwin is expected to be locked away by the Demons before the start of the home-and-away season. Like Buckley, he too is set to be handed a new two-year contract.

In a strong sign of stability, for the first time in 13 years, the 18 AFL senior coaches this season remain the same as the previous year.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...e/news-story/5e4855734f7c95b91b8b4b14f4054417

The reason for stability Greg is because of the 100% tax on soft cap of football department expenditure over the cap, causing clubs to hang to their coaches closer to their contract end date. There was a table of the coaches terms. A footnote to the table says Hinkley supposedly has a performance clause trigger for final year option to extend past 2020 to 2021 (3rd year as announced in Septemer 2017). It better be a lot bloody tougher hurdle than just make finals in 2020 and clause says it doesn't matter if we dont win finals in 2020.


View attachment 627508

Is that right? I've never heard that before?

 

[The Rubber Man]

Story in today's Oz about Buckley getting 2 years extension and looks at Goodwin as well. It's by Greg Denham.

https://outline.com/AWWYEF
Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin remains the only senior coach to not be secured beyond this season after Collingwood yesterday awarded Nathan Buckley a two-year extension.However, Goodwin is expected to be locked away by the Demons before the start of the home-and-away season. Like Buckley, he too is set to be handed a new two-year contract.

In a strong sign of stability, for the first time in 13 years, the 18 AFL senior coaches this season remain the same as the previous year.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...e/news-story/5e4855734f7c95b91b8b4b14f4054417

The reason for stability Greg is because of the 100% tax on soft cap of football department expenditure over the cap, causing clubs to hang to their coaches closer to their contract end date. There was a table of the coaches terms. A footnote to the table says Hinkley supposedly has a performance clause trigger for final year option to extend past 2020 to 2021 (3rd year as announced in Septemer 2017). It better be a lot bloody tougher hurdle than just make finals in 2020 and clause says it doesn't matter if we dont win finals in 2020.


View attachment 627508

Sooo if we sack him at the end of the year, we only have to pay out 1 season instead to 2?

 

[DaTBird187]

Story in today's Oz about Buckley getting 2 years extension and looks at Goodwin as well. It's by Greg Denham.

https://outline.com/AWWYEF
Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin remains the only senior coach to not be secured beyond this season after Collingwood yesterday awarded Nathan Buckley a two-year extension.However, Goodwin is expected to be locked away by the Demons before the start of the home-and-away season. Like Buckley, he too is set to be handed a new two-year contract.

In a strong sign of stability, for the first time in 13 years, the 18 AFL senior coaches this season remain the same as the previous year.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...e/news-story/5e4855734f7c95b91b8b4b14f4054417

The reason for stability Greg is because of the 100% tax on soft cap of football department expenditure over the cap, causing clubs to hang to their coaches closer to their contract end date. There was a table of the coaches terms. A footnote to the table says Hinkley supposedly has a performance clause trigger for final year option to extend past 2020 to 2021 (3rd year as announced in Septemer 2017). It better be a lot bloody tougher hurdle than just make finals in 2020 and clause says it doesn't matter if we dont win finals in 2020.


View attachment 627508

I think Hinkley's performance clause is tied in with this thread. If people stop posting in it, he gets another contract.

 

[Papa G]

Sooo if we sack him at the end of the year, we only have to pay out 1 season instead to 2?

Doubt it. We'll have to wait the full 2 years.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Doubt it. We'll have to wait the full 2 years.

Yep, because we have denied him the opportunity to achieve the 2020 trigger clause if he gets sacked at end of 2019.

 

[chiwigi]

So does the clause protect or expose him? Is he contracted to 2021 as long as he hits the performance target or does it extend past 2021 if he does so?

If it is the former it is understandable that the club allowed the co-captains as it’s his arse on the line.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

So does the clause protect or expose him? Is he contracted to 2021 as long as he hits the performance target or does it extend past 2021 if he does so?

If it is the former it is understandable that the club allowed the co-captains as it’s his arse on the line.

The trigger clause kicks in, after 2020 for 2021, not after 2021. Post 2021 a new deal has to be written up.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

So does the clause protect or expose him? Is he contracted to 2021 as long as he hits the performance target or does it extend past 2021 if he does so?

If it is the former it is understandable that the club allowed the co-captains as it’s his arse on the line.

They should have renegotiated.

Well let you have co-captains of you let us bring the trigger clause forward a year.

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[chiwigi]

The trigger clause kicks in, after 2020 for 2021, not after 2021. Post 2021 a new deal has to be written up.

Ok, so he has two years to hit the targets or he’s out.
Let’s hope he does it!
Hinkley here in 2022 means shit has gone well.

 

[Janus]

The trigger clause kicks in, after 2020 for 2021, not after 2021. Post 2021 a new deal has to be written up.

The trigger clause will lead to a new contract. The extra year clause is just a safety net so that he’s under contract if he’s successful and can concentrate on doing the best he can in 2020 rather than going to speak to other clubs with 6 months to go.

Makes me understand why Hinkley said give me co-captains. The club wants to put performance clauses in, then don’t complain when decisions are made about extracting as much performance out of the squad as possible.

 

[Duck Farmer]

He will threaten to walk on short notice to some dumpster fire of a club before he hits the trigger.

 

[tribey]

He will threaten to walk on short notice to some dumpster fire of a club before he hits the trigger.

Even if he manages to steer us back to the halcyon days of 2013 (12-10 and a finals win, those were the days!) at least once in the next two years, the idea that anyone other than say, Gold Coast or perhaps Carlton (bearing in mind he was outcoached by Bolton in 2016) would hand him the keys is fanciful at best.