Jacinta Allan - Leading a zombie government

[Sttew]

The liberals will cut plenty if they get in…and raise taxes. Remember Jeff?

Firstly what does your post have to do with the ridiculous statement of Horne?

Kennett and whoever defeats this current bunch of no-hopers will have one thing in common - inheriting massive and unsustainable debt. You seem to have desensitised yourself to what happened under Cain & Kirner.

 

[Sttew]

Weird concept - but maybe all parts of society just pay fair and reasonable taxes and we could do both.

Who isn't paying their fair share of state taxes?

We are already the highest taxed state in this country, and I am wondering what are we getting for it? Shit roads, poor health system, a broken understaffed education system, a WorkCover scheme that is broke, a broken Police force that is understaffed...

The only thing that has grown is the size of the public service, and even then this government prefers to engage consultants to make the big decisions, not the public servants

 

[peetoo]

Firstly what does your post have to do with the ridiculous statement of Horne?

Kennett and whoever defeats this current bunch of no-hopers will have one thing in common - inheriting massive and unsustainable debt. You seem to have desensitised yourself to what happened under Cain & Kirner.

It nothing like that. But let’s all decide we don’t like nice things here in Victoria and the feds will happily redirect our tax dollars to nsw and qld, like they have been doing for decades

 

[peetoo]

Who isn't paying their fair share of state taxes?

We are already the highest taxed state in this country, and I am wondering what are we getting for it? Shit roads, poor health system, a broken understaffed education system, a WorkCover scheme that is broke, a broken Police force that is understaffed...

The only thing that has grown is the size of the public service, and even then this government prefers to engage consultants to make the big decisions, not the public servants

Cos they make decisions to spend more on consultants. Funny that

 

[Saint]

At the last election, the LNP proposed spending the same amount as the ALP were already spending.

The only savings in project spending they identified, they then proposed even more spending.

If the LNP have a plan on what they're actually going to do, it better be different to last time.

If spending is the problem, why don't the LNP say what they're going to cut spending on?

We all know what they're going to do. They're going to cut taxes on businesses and cut services for health, transport and education.

The fact is that the state LNP only ever have one trick, cutting services while cutting taxes on businesses. And the state of the Vic budget is nowhere near as bad as under Cain/Kirner (recessionary times) (yet). So I don't think many Victorians see the need to cut services just to accommodate tax cuts for businesses (which are making higher profits than ever).

 

[The Punter]

At the last election, the LNP proposed spending the same amount as the ALP were already spending.

The only savings in project spending they identified, they then proposed even more spending.

If the LNP have a plan on what they're actually going to do, it better be different to last time.

If spending is the problem, why don't the LNP say what they're going to cut spending on?

We all know what they're going to do. They're going to cut taxes on businesses and cut services for health, transport and education.

The fact is that the state LNP only ever have one trick, cutting services while cutting taxes on businesses. And the state of the Vic budget is nowhere near as bad as under Cain/Kirner (recessionary times) (yet). So I don't think many Victorians see the need to cut services just to accommodate tax cuts for businesses (which are making higher profits than ever).

There's so much more scope for reducing spending without touching the holy trinity of scare campaigns, unlike in 1992 when, as you admit, the fiscal situation was worse.

There has been a massive expansion of the upper echelons of the public service, which is expensive and provides little value to the public for their taxpayer dollar.

Having said that, any reduction in spending proposed by the Coalition will be described by the ALP as a cut to services.

 

[eddiesmith]

One simple cut saves the state $200 billion, but it’s Dan personal play set and it’s untouchable by the current government.

 

[Saint]

There's so much more scope for reducing spending without touching the holy trinity of scare campaigns, unlike in 1992 when, as you admit, the fiscal situation was worse.

There has been a massive expansion of the upper echelons of the public service, which is expensive and provides little value to the public for their taxpayer dollar.

Having said that, any reduction in spending proposed by the Coalition will be described by the ALP as a cut to services.

They're already making big cuts in major project areas, such as the disbanding of RPV. Not all of those people found jobs at SRL and a lot of DTP people have lost their jobs in re-shuffles, moving beyond voluntary redundancies to forced ones now.

Absolutely the echelons of spin doctors need to be removed. But they'll be the last ones to go, as they're the ones telling the Ministers who's important and who's expendable. Couldn't happen to a better bunch of people, when it happens.

 

[Saint]

The LNP have form across the country when it comes to cuts to services and cuts to pay for Govt employees.

There's no point denying it. They pride themselves on it when in Govt and pretend they've been tarred unfairly when in opposition.

 

[The Punter]

They're already making big cuts in major project areas, such as the disbanding of RPV. Not all of those people found jobs at SRL and a lot of DTP people have lost their jobs in re-shuffles, moving beyond voluntary redundancies to forced ones now.

Absolutely the echelons of spin doctors need to be removed. But they'll be the last ones to go, as they're the ones telling the Ministers who's important and who's expendable. Couldn't happen to a better bunch of people, when it happens.

Just to be clear, "spin doctors" was not who I was talking about - I understand to mean political staff. The Victorian number of Ministerial staff has gone from 220 under Brumby to 150 under Baillieu to 290 under Jacinta Allan, while the number of Ministers (mandated by legislation) stays the same at 21 or 22. Also, unlike in Canberra where an increase in Min staff also increases Shadow Min staff, there is no such nexus in Victoria.

No, I was talking about executive level departmental and regulatory agency staff. Some very well may have been cut. There is still extensive scope for pruning. The VPS was as it should be for over 20 years post-1993: a triangle shape with a narrow top and a wide bottom. Like most large organisations (not the APS it should be pointed out, which is shaped like a frog being held up by its head: narrow at the top and bottom with a massive middle). Andrews turned that on his head by massive expanding the numbers of those who sit above VPS6 level. That's who you cut. They're expensive and funding them is recurrent.

 

[peetoo]

One simple cut saves the state $200 billion, but it’s Dan personal play set and it’s untouchable by the current government.

On a multi decade project? Not sure you do finance?

 

[eddiesmith]

On a multi decade project? Not sure you do finance?

Would cover the massive lack of funding for the states emergency services with some left over.

Simple way to improve the state massively without cutting services.

 

[peetoo]

What to believe?

Victorian debt-

Victoria could restore its reputation for financial discipline if it started running its infrastructure ambitions in a more efficient way.

www.afr.com

Soaring occupancy costs to drive big names from Sydney warehouses

Amazon and Ceva Logistics are among those considering shifting more of their logistics operations from Sydney to counter surging warehouse occupancy costs.

www.afr.com

 

[The Punter]

What to believe?

Victorian debt-

Victoria could restore its reputation for financial discipline if it started running its infrastructure ambitions in a more efficient way.

www.afr.com

Soaring occupancy costs to drive big names from Sydney warehouses

Amazon and Ceva Logistics are among those considering shifting more of their logistics operations from Sydney to counter surging warehouse occupancy costs.

www.afr.com

Both.

 

[Sttew]

It is only a matter of time before a major manufacturer (and employer) like a Mondelez abandons Victoria. The cost of gas which it relies on to fire boilers at its many factories has more than doubled in the past 2 years. Add to that land taxes, WorkCover etc. It's a complete disincentive.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

It is only a matter of time before a major manufacturer (and employer) like a Mondelez abandons Victoria. The cost of gas which it relies on to fire boilers at its many factories has more than doubled in the past 2 years. Add to that land taxes, WorkCover etc. It's a complete disincentive.

It's not like they will find cheaper gas elsewhere in the country

 

[The Punter]

A more mature discussion around gas is badly needed. But there are not many votes to be gained in the idea that gas is still badly needed for business, possibly good for electricity generation (if one has the infrastructure it provides a good transition fuel), and almost entirely over for domestic use (other than the quality of cooking with gas, all domestic gas appliances remain as efficient as they always were as electrical and electronic appliances keep getting more energy efficient).

I'm not holding my breath on the more mature discussion however.

 

[Sttew]

It's not like they will find cheaper gas elsewhere in the country

It’s not just gas though. Manufacturing is meant to be the engine room of Victoria. Can you name one initiative of the current government that enhances the manufacturing sector?

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

It’s not just gas though. Manufacturing is meant to be the engine room of Victoria. Can you name one initiative of the current government that enhances the manufacturing sector?

Easy. Minimum content requirements for projects like trains and trams.

 

[The Punter]

Easy. Minimum content requirements for projects like trains and trams.

Not a great endorsement of a private sector-led recovery. As long as the taxpayer is funding it, our manufacturing sector is fine.

 

[peetoo]

A more mature discussion around gas is badly needed. But there are not many votes to be gained in the idea that gas is still badly needed for business, possibly good for electricity generation (if one has the infrastructure it provides a good transition fuel), and almost entirely over for domestic use (other than the quality of cooking with gas, all domestic gas appliances remain as efficient as they always were as electrical and electronic appliances keep getting more energy efficient).

I'm not holding my breath on the more mature discussion however.

Never will be while the coalition is monstered by a few on the right.

Most of parliament, MPs and senators agree with Turnbull when he said energy certainty is the biggest issue (Rudd said the same) in a free vote itd be almost 90% over the dinosaurs.

Yet we still have such as Dutton with his nuclear fantasy muddying the waters.

If you want to be a coalition leader, state or federal, progressive or otherwise, first you sign this off to energy and climate deniers.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Not a great endorsement of a private sector-led recovery. As long as the taxpayer is funding it, our manufacturing sector is fine.

The flow on effects are huge though.

I should know. I can point at the stuff I've made.
Some of it gets seen on an international stage for what it's worth

The reality is we can't compete with China or India large scale. They smash us on wages. And wages in manufacturing aren't huge to start with in Australia.

 

[The Punter]

The flow on effects are huge though.

I should know. I can point at the stuff I've made.
Some of it gets seen on an international stage for what it's worth

The reality is we can't compete with China or India large scale. They smash us on wages. And wages in manufacturing aren't huge to start with in Australia.

It's great, don't get me wrong, but governments need to also (to the maximum extent possible) enact policy settings that enable economic activity which has nothing to do with them. Because that's how we all get richer, including governments (rather than moving the same money around and around, which I concede is how many people have a living).

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

It's great, don't get me wrong, but governments need to also (to the maximum extent possible) enact policy settings that enable economic activity which has nothing to do with them. Because that's how we all get richer, including governments (rather than moving the same money around and around, which I concede is how many people have a living).

The problem starts and ends with business putting profits and growth over everything.

It's not sustainable and never will be.