Jacinta Allan - Leading a zombie government

[Saint]

You are doing ungenerous estimates one way, and under selling a known quantity the other.

Cheltenham to Glenferrie typically takes around 50+ minutes.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

View attachment 2138184

PTV website is trash.

And I've done similar-ish journeys from Glenferrie/Hawthorn, transferring to the Cranbourne/Pakenham or Frankston lines hundreds of times.

 

[The Punter]

Arguing over a matter of minutes..

Tell me, how long does it take someone to get to Melbourne from Melton on a Metro train?

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Arguing over a matter of minutes..

Tell me, how long does it take someone to get to Melbourne from Melton on a Metro train?

Well that's my point.

Regardless of your position on the SRL, the claim that the same journey will increase times isn't a serious argument.

Also, the positioning on Monash campus is designed so that you have an exit for students and an exit into the research/innovation precinct which is going to be dramatically developed. Ignoring one group entirely would be a huge mistake. Likewise much of the on campus accommodation is close to the site.

 

[The Punter]

Well that's my point.

Regardless of your position on the SRL, the claim that the same journey will increase times isn't a serious argument.

Also, the positioning on Monash campus is designed so that you have an exit for students and an exit into the research/innovation precinct which is going to be dramatically developed. Ignoring one group entirely would be a huge mistake. Likewise much of the on campus accommodation is close to the site.

Almost hard to figure out why the ALP's polling in the West is in freefall.

 

[peetoo]

View attachment 2138184

You could match that on a bike

 

[Saint]

Well that's my point.

Regardless of your position on the SRL, the claim that the same journey will increase times isn't a serious argument.

Also, the positioning on Monash campus is designed so that you have an exit for students and an exit into the research/innovation precinct which is going to be dramatically developed. Ignoring one group entirely would be a huge mistake. Likewise much of the on campus accommodation is close to the site.

It's only going to make journeys better for a very few trips. Most of which, according to the business case, aren't even occurring yet.

Meanwhile, the people in the west won't get a metro service for another decade or two because all the money is being spent supporting people moving into apartments in 5 narrow catchments which already have fantastic public transport.

And we're each paying $5,000 per person for the capex on it. Most people who will use SRL don't even live in Victoria yet, or are not old enough to be catching public transport yet. But people in the west are getting a brand new tolled river crossing instead of PT.

 

[Saint]

Well that's my point.

Regardless of your position on the SRL, the claim that the same journey will increase times isn't a serious argument.

Also, the positioning on Monash campus is designed so that you have an exit for students and an exit into the research/innovation precinct which is going to be dramatically developed. Ignoring one group entirely would be a huge mistake. Likewise much of the on campus accommodation is close to the site.

I'll bet you any donation to charity you like that after SRL opens, it will be quicker to get from Frankston to Glenferrie via Richmond than via the SRL. The TfL overland orbital is by far the least used line on the network.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

View attachment 2138184

The SRL station will be located near Southland station. Not Cheltenham.

Cheltenham

Find out more on how the new underground station at Cheltenham will be the southern gateway to the Suburban Rail Loop and enchance the surrounding community.

bigbuild.vic.gov.au

Trains are planned to run about every 6-10 minutes

 

[peetoo]

It's only going to make journeys better for a very few trips. Most of which, according to the business case, aren't even occurring yet.

Meanwhile, the people in the west won't get a metro service for another decade or two because all the money is being spent supporting people moving into apartments in 5 narrow catchments which already have fantastic public transport.

And we're each paying $5,000 per person for the capex on it. Most people who will use SRL don't even live in Victoria yet, or are not old enough to be catching public transport yet. But people in the west are getting a brand new tolled river crossing instead of PT.

Monash freeway toll users are paying for the western tunnel. Truck traffic I’d the main priority over there

 

[peetoo]

I'll bet you any donation to charity you like that after SRL opens, it will be quicker to get from Frankston to Glenferrie via Richmond than via the SRL. The TfL overland orbital is by far the least used line on the network.

Recycled arguments used in the skyrail episode. The people love it now

One of the think tanks slamming SRL actually suggested skyrail up major highways as a cheaper option.
I think tunnelling is an expensive option, but much less disruption over already choked highways

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Arguing over a matter of minutes..

Tell me, how long does it take someone to get to Melbourne from Melton on a Metro train?

For what it's worth the current V/Line train does 37km in around 39 minutes. To travel roughly the same distance on the Pakenham line it's about 45 minutes.

When Melton goes electric they're going to be rather unhappy. Because instead of a nice express run Sunshine-Footscray-Southern Cross trains will stop at Tottenham, West Footscray, Middle Footscray, Footscray and then into the metro tunnel.

Sunbury passengers cracked the shits when electric trains came and they tried to put boarding restrictions on V/Line trains from there. You don't think Melton, Cobblebank, Rockbank, Caroline Springs, Deer Park and Ardeer passengers will cop changing from a comfortable V/Line VLocity to a Metro HCMT.

 

[peetoo]

It’s not just time it’s throughput. Removing journeys not squashing more and more people into the same transport corridor.

Before lockdowns they were even saying the sidewalks in Melbourne CBDwere too small for all the people moving along them


But I can see how people see how they can profit personally rather than the city as a whole grow efficiently

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Before lockdowns they were even saying the sidewalks in Melbourne were too small for all the people moving along them

The irony is in the local council elections many candidates are trying to make those same footpaths worse again.

 

[peetoo]

The irony is in the local council elections many candidates are trying to make those same footpaths worse again.

Yes I meant CBD. You probably worked that out

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Yes I meant CBD. You probably worked that out

Yea I did. Half the idiots in the Melbourne city council mayor race want to rip up bike lanes and force everyone into the CBD.

 

[MJG14]

As a frequent user of the Melton line I find it to be a decent and comfortable trip. It's a line where both extremes are experienced though. When it's good, it's good. But when an issue happens, particularly near Footscray/Sunshine, it tends to be REALLY bad because of the sheer number of trains using RRL in peak.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

As a frequent user of the Melton line I find it to be a decent and comfortable trip. It's a line where both extremes are experienced though. When it's good, it's good. But when an issue happens, particularly near Footscray/Sunshine, it tends to be REALLY bad because of the sheer number of trains using RRL in peak.

Metro trains can be just as bad. The usual trespasser springs up every couple of weeks or so around Flinders Street and completely f**ks the service.

 

[QuietB]

The lies continue. Minister for Housing, Harriet Shing, is now denying the Andrews or Allen governments ever pledged to build 80,000 new homes per annum over the next 10 years. She says it was just a "commitment for approvals".

Meanwhile a survey by the Property Council of Australia reveals industry confidence in Victoria is the lowest in the country. Why? Because the tax regime is crippling.

I am truly shocked that the property council is moaning about taxes

 

[QuietB]

Yes, the population could be accommodated in a metro area by condensing people into these new urban centres. But does anyone actually want to move there in the numbers they're suggesting?

Considering how Docklands is going, I'm not sure.

People have been talking about reducing urban sprawl since the 60's. The Freeway plans of the 70's were also predicated on creating a multi-centric city, and it didn't happen. What makes anyone think this $30bn investment will make it happen?

Have you seen what they are building on the urban fringe? Dog box in the middle of nowhere? An urban apartment is 1,000 times better proposition.

 

[QuietB]

Docklands is badly designed. That's its flaw.

Putting a football stadium between it and the city was not an ideal starting point.

 

[QuietB]

2PP is 49/51 with an >2% margin for error.

We've seen Labor go into an election near even odds a few weeks out and clean up on actual seats.

I think interest rates and CoL are big factors.

Given the election isn't until 2026, there's a lot of time for interest rates to come down, Victorians to be spooked by a Federal Dutton and US Trump victory. Plus a nice friendly pre-election budget will juice things up a bit.

It's such a large number of seats the Liberals need to win and time + external economic/political factors definitely tilt things in Labor's favour. TBH though, I'm not a fan at all of the Allen government adopting an Albo like strategy.

There is a pretty handy pre election ribbon cutting tour as well - new west gate tunnel, new Footscray hospital, new metro tunnel, more rail crossing removals, lots of shiny new toys for Labor to show off perfectly timed for an election campaign.

 

[Sttew]

Putting a football between it and the city was not an ideal starting point.

What came first? The football stadium was designed and built before anything around it was thought of. And a football stadium next to a major rail station in the City isn’t a bad idea

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

What came first? The football stadium was designed and built before anything around it was thought of. And a football stadium next to a major rail station in the City isn’t a bad idea

The problem with the stadium it acts as a barrier from the water to the city.

I think from memory it was all part of the master plan.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

The problem with the stadium it acts as a barrier from the water to the city.

I think from memory it was all part of the master plan.

I'd say the rail yards at southern cross have a far bigger impact than Marvel Stadium