Jack Ginnivan - Redemption arc

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

It's the ugly Aussie cricketers lecturing other countries about the spirit of cricket all over again.

This sums it up really well. Couldn’t agree more.

 

[z547043]

Both Nine and Fox Footy have run full segments of confected outrage.

They've shown grabs from the press conference where they only highlight the sentence about Ken Hinkley being older, which was a side point.

The main point Mitchell was clearly making about Sicily's leadership in the situation were left out.

These clips were out of the context of the press conference being immediately after a close finals loss and coming immediately after a question about said loss.

And there's been many opposition supporters in this thread who clearly haven't watched the full press conference.

They're parroting this media narrative and piling into Mitchell for:

a) Things he never said
b) What they think he was thinking
c) Things they didn't realise that he said.


But Ken did say it immediately before Luke was going to be chaired off.

After the game was over.

It was clearly pre-match banter.

Pre-match banter from a guy I think most people will acknowledge is an immature 21-year-old.

Ken Hinkley had plenty of opportunity to respond before or during the game, if he wanted.

That includes during the broadcast, when the Fox Footy commentary team explicitly asked him about Ginni's comments.

If Ken were a brave man who backed his team, he would have made his little Jack's not flying anywhere comments then.

But he knew it would be a tough game, and if he said it then and Port lost, it would absolutely be used against him.

He knew if he made his comment before or after the game and Port lost, Kane Cornes would be repeating the "Jack's not going anywhere" claim on Nine and the AFL website and on SEN.

So instead he batted away the question with a line about how Jack had given his team motivation.

He waited to deliver his pre-match banter after the game was over, because he's a coward.

And he made a fool of himself as a result.

Sam's comments were focused on praising James Sicily's leadership.


The operative phrase here is "played the game".

Yeah Dermis ran through an Essendon huddle and strutted like a rooster after a goal from time to time back in the day. While the game was still on.

But this time, the game was over. The players had shaken each other's hands and congratulated each other on a well-fought win.

They were all gathering to celebrate a milestone for a 300-game veteran.

That's when gutless Ken finally built up the courage to share his pre-match banter with the world.

You’re a diehard. End of the day, even blokes in Hawk guernseys have acted like $&#%. Along with the 17 other clubs. I watched Joel Selwood massage peoples faces when there was no need. I watched Chris Scott let Ballantyne get under his skin and respond. I watched Scarlett put one on Ballantynes chin and cost us a game and then needlessly sit the next three which hurt us even more. Just because they wear your colours, they aren’t saints or gods. If you can’t see it, you might need to open the other eye.

 

[revo333]

Problem is not what was said, when or by who.
Ginni is a kid and Ken is a generation and a half older, minimum.

Both have the ability to laugh it off, should and probably will.

They both were laughing it off and then Sicily started yapping..

 

[revo333]

I do admire that Sam Mitchell attempted do go down the 'Demented vile old predator abuses naive innocent young man' path. A real character building press conference for Good Guy Sammy

No problem with what Sam said. But it would have been better to see someone with his history and reputation just cop it on the chin and not try to make it out that Jack was bullied, Sicily was wearing a cape and that the Hawthorn Football Club are angels when it comes to this kind of stuff.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Problem is not what was said, when or by who.
Ginni is a kid and Ken is a generation and a half older, minimum.

Both have the ability to laugh it off, should and probably will.
But neither will even remotely understand what they allegedly did wrong in the eyes of a media full of halfwits.

It's banter.


PS. No issue with Ginni leaving the Pies.
Life long Hawks supporter found his way there.
Living the dream.

Life's short do it properly.

21 is not a kid.

You're a fully fledged adult at 21.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I do admire that Sam Mitchell attempted do go down the 'Demented vile old predator abuses naive innocent young man' path. A real character building press conference for Good Guy Sammy

I've found this narrative really weird

 

[Mitchell Madness]

You don't get a 20k fine for a bit of banter. The AFL investigated and know what was actually said.

I guess it's like Melbourne not tanking, and essendon not taking drugs. We all know what was actually said, but the AFL will let the masses argue Rather than actually making comment

 

[Retzlaff]

Why is nobody talking about a young, fit 21 year old aggressively trying to win a game of football against a much older, slower, wrinkled 60 year old

 

[black is White]

You don't get a 20k fine for a bit of banter. The AFL investigated and know what was actually said.

I guess it's like Melbourne not tanking, and essendon not taking drugs. We all know what was actually said, but the AFL will let the masses argue Rather than actually making comment

Only thing Hinkley did wrong was responding to an emotionally unhinged Sicily.

 

[sr36]

You don't get a 20k fine for a bit of banter. The AFL investigated and know what was actually said.

I guess it's like Melbourne not tanking, and essendon not taking drugs. We all know what was actually said, but the AFL will let the masses argue Rather than actually making comment

Nah, they don't care what was said - it was pretty obvious that Sicily was yelling campaigner over and over. As they always do, the AFL responded to the media. And there's a lot of Hawks in the media being righteous pious pearl clutchers.

 

[LoungeLizard]

The AFL are going to have to put a stop to this, if they give Jack free reign Port might go broke.

 

[BarryMorgan]

He's made his bed over the years and people have long memories, he hasnt been the most likeable bloke going around because of how he goes about his game.

Was back to his worst on Friday, dropping his knees into blokes lying on the ground.

 

[Skeppersap]

Let's all take a moment to remember the exact point in time when Sicily lost a final off his own boot!!!!

Then sooked it up minutes later, followed by his coach.

Glorious!

 

[revo333]

Good to see Hawks supporters taking the loss about as well as Hodge and Lewis did.

 

[kidkenobi]

Again, Sam Mitchell didn't use the word "victim", or for that matter "innocent".

You're once again putting words into Sam's mouth that he didn't actually say, and then attacking him for things he didn't say.

Again, here's Sam's actual quote:

"We had a very young player who had some very aggressive words said to him by a much older man who's been in the game for a long time."

Accurate, fact-based description of the incident.

At 21, Ginnivan is rightly considered a very young player. He is a young adult in a societal context, a young player in an AFL context, and very young relative to the age of Ken Hinkley.

However you want to slice it, that part is factual and accurate.

And at 57, Ken Hinkley is objectively a much older man than 21-year-old Jack.

Again, factual and accurate.

And it's objectively true that Ken Hinkley has been in the game a long time. I mean FFS, Jack wasn't even born when Ken used to play for Fitzroy back in the '80s.

So again,objectively factual and accurate.

As a society, we expect people who are nearly 60 to act in a more mature fashion than 21 year olds.

The fact that Ken clearly didn't, and stating the objective facts of the matter makes Ken look bad is on Ken.


Again, the quote was "had some very aggressive words said to him".

What, do you think Ken's comments were gracious? Sportsmanlike?

Do you think they were the words of an emotionally mature individual? A respected and respectful leader?

No, Ken was clapping back aggressively to pre-match banter.

But he did it after the match, with his players physically standing behind him, because he's a coward.


Sicily was being a leader who stood up for his young teammate.

Mitchell's point was, despite feeling just as emotional, Sicily showed leadership in the circumstances.

Here's where Sam explicitly states it: "And I'm really proud of our captain, who would have been just as emotional, to stand up and lead in a way he can be proud of."

Because unlike Ken (who only responds to pre-match banter after the final siren once the match is over an he thinks it can't be used against him), James is a real leader who stands up for his teammates.

Oh please. The only reason Sicily started at all is because he’s a hot head and couldn’t hold himself back. He couldn’t even stop himself when he was supposed to be chairing off his mate, and was instead still yapping at Ken. Nothing to do with leadership and more to do with a lack of self control which he has displayed countless times before.

As for Sam, he tried hard to avoid coming across as overly emotional during his press conference, but let’s be honest, he didn’t do a great job and had a big sook along with a few of his ex-Hawk mates

 

[Iago]

The average age for AFL players in 2024 was 25.5 years old.

The average age for Hawthorn players, considered a young list, was 24.7.

The average age for North players, the youngest list in the competition, was 23.9.

Source: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/ages.html

At 21, Jack Ginnivan is nearly 3 years younger than the average age of the youngest list of the competition. He is nearly 4 years younger than the average age at Hawthorn and 4.5 years younger than the average age for the competition.

It's reasonable to describe him as a very young player.

And given Ken Hinkley is 57, it's definitely reasonable to say Ken Hinkley is "much older" or that Jack us "very young" relative to Ken Hinkley.

Been in the system since November 2020. Played senior level football since 2021. That is 4 completed seasons. Yes, 21 is young, Ginnivan's behaviour attests to some immaturity. However he has been around long enough.
He is not a first year player where one would reasonably expect some naiveté.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What a load of crap. There was nothing "aggressive" about what Kenny said.

This is conjecture at best, lies at worst.

I don't think you know what accuracy and fact are, so please stop using those words.

“You’re not flying anywhere Jack, you little ****wit” isn’t very friendly to me.

 

[Cyclops]

“You’re not flying anywhere Jack, you little ****wit” isn’t very friendly to me.

Fair dinkum, $20,000 fine for being unfriendly, where's the fine for Sicily?

Hawthorn isn't this fragile, its all Sicily. I honestly believe Jack didn't need protecting.

I'd love to hear what Ginnivan has to say, but I guess they want this to quiet down. I would hazard a guess he felt a bit annoyed at Ken, but would see the funny side and cop it on the chin.

Sam Mitchell wasn't dissimilar as a player, not quite as IDGAF as Jack, but he taunted the bombers that time, and took his punishment with a smile. I don't much like him but certainly respect him, and he's becoming a decent coach.

The fly in this ointment is Sicily, and even he is doing his best to be a better man. Failed to apologise for his petulant display, even claimed his meltdown was "sticking up for a team mate" lol. "Me-me-me, mum look, I'm angry and demonstrative WHERE ARE MY TENDIES MUM". Hawks are rallying around this goofball, you're going to get spattered from all his froth. He's worth it I s'pose, really fine player now and growing into a captain.

As for the journos, they are sock puppets. Dermott I will listen too, but Hodge is trying to sell me payday loans so he can be quiet.

 

[sr36]

There is a lack of empathy for sis as a captain and as a player who would have been absolutely reeling after almost dragging his team over the line in a cut throat final while playing injured.

It's not that it's a lack of empathy for Sicily. Everyone gets why he did his lolly and I doubt many would hold it against him. But the reality is he did do his lolly and then Mitchell claimed to be proud of his leadership for doing so and then Sicily backed by Mitchell's words came out the next day and said he was proud about doing his lolly and considers it strong leadership. It's really weird and really unhealthy. You've got a bloke who needs to work on emotional regulation and he's being encouraged to have hissy fits in the name of leadership.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

“You’re not flying anywhere Jack, you little ****wit” isn’t very friendly to me.

you might not like it, but it's a pretty accurate description.

 

[sr36]

“You’re not flying anywhere Jack, you little ****wit” isn’t very friendly to me.

Yes. Kenny was gloating. Towards a player who published a gloating tweet a week beforehand. Who plays for a team that gloats after most goals they kick. Who are supported by supporters who have been gloating about their fantastic success for decades.

Now somehow, this club, it's past players and some of its supporters are outraged and sooking about Kenny gloating. It's absolutely hilarious. A finals exit for the ages topped off by Mitchell and Sicily being proud of a tantrum and considering it great leadrship.

 

[HeHateMe]

It's not that it's a lack of empathy for Sicily. Everyone gets why he did his lolly and I doubt many would hold it against him. But the reality is he did do his lolly and then Mitchell claimed to be proud of his leadership for doing so and then Sicily backed by Mitchell's words came out the next day and said he was proud about doing his lolly and considers it strong leadership. It's really weird and really unhealthy. You've got a bloke who needs to work on emotional regulation and he's being encouraged to have hissy fits in the name of leadership.

I personally would prefer to remain stoic in those situations, your comments lead me to believe you do as well. I keep hearing about how Kenny and the emotions that lead to his dig, people are empathetic for his situation. While I don't see the same for sis, that's all I said. I also described that sis still on the ground after the loss no opportunity to decompress, compose himself, is my opinion getting way to much criticism.

 

[sr36]

I personally would prefer to remain stoic in those situations, your comments lead me to believe you do as well. I keep hearing about how Kenny and the emotions that lead to his dig, people are empathetic for his situation. While I don't see the same for sis, that's all I said. I also described that sis still on the ground after the loss no opportunity to decompress, compose himself, is my opinion getting way to much criticism.

I've got no qualms with Sicily losing it. It's a really emotional job and that was a really emotional end to the year. But I do have qualms with Mitchell lauding it as great leadership and then Sicily coming out the next day and saying he was proud of it. It's a really ugly message they're both sending out.

The comments about Kenny are because he's been copping it big time in the media. Sicily hasn't from what I've seen.

 

[HeHateMe]

I've got no qualms with Sicily losing it. It's a really emotional job and that was a really emotional end to the year. But I do have qualms with Mitchell lauding it as great leadership and then Sicily coming out the next day and saying he was proud of it. It's a really ugly message they're both sending out.

The comments about Kenny are because he's been copping it big time in the media. Sicily hasn't from what I've seen.

My fundamental point of my opinion is it happened immediately after the game while still on the ground, I give sis an excuse because he shouldn't have been put in that situation, don't give Kenny the same excuse because he had avenues to deal with his. but he has put I'd hand up already so it should be dealt with in my eyes.

Regarding the follow up, I feel the club is now putting a united front for the media.

Media will keep asking questions for the week and the goldfish will forget it by the weekend after the results.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

you might not like it, but it's a pretty accurate description.

You’d have no issue with the Sam Mitchell injection jibe then, seeing as it was an accurate description of what Bombers players did.