Jack Ginnivan - Redemption arc

[sr36]

Darcy Moore? He speaks well, and we love him because he sets am example for effort but he's not taking numbers and fronting blokes.

Sicily stood up for his bloke yes. Not sure he needed it, believe me at the Pies and Haeks he's heard so much worse.

Sicily escalated an exchange that had an unwitting instigator and a somewhat mean spirited comeback.

Third man in? Red card James.

Hawks not messing with anyone's minds here (although you have the wood on us as far as footy goes ).

Sicily was lost in his own ego the way he went off. Lewis and Hodge moaning, what did they say about Ginnivan last year? Honest question, I recall a chorus of disapproval but unsure of those twos position.

Hodge wasn't hypocritical. He was scathing about Ginni's tweet, so he line drawn an impartial line about out of game shit stirring.

But I still don't get why the leader of a team that prided themselves on unsociable football is doing a lecture series on etiquette and deportment ...

 

[Cyclops]

All pretty emotional.

Jack is fine, was a bit cheeky. I hope he keeps laughing and has fun.

 

[sr36]

I actually dont think that is the case

Yeah, it's not the case, but it was another example of a Hawthorn poster trying to gloat whilst saying how terrible gloating is. It's great stuff.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Sicily wasn't the one who came out and shouted at an opposition player that he's a "little f*ckwit" after the match was over, everyone had shaken hands, and was about to chair off a legend of the game.

Ken did that.

And in the circumstances, James was completely right in having a word to Ken Hinkley.

Just like Sicily wasn't the one who deliberately downplayed what he said in a TV interview just minutes later, by falsely claiming he said "you're not flying anywhere" instead of "you're not flying anywhere, Jack, you little f*ckwit".

Ken did that.

Still so disingenuous.

For a start, you (Hawks supporters) keep downplaying or ignoring that Ginni started it and was stupid not to realise his public post would go viral because it was a smartarse, disrespectful snipe at PA. You continue the disingenuity by pretending it wouldn't or shouldn't have been taken as an insult by the whole PA playing and coaching group and quite possibly woke them from the malaise they were in following their mauling by Sydney.

Ginni took the risk of summoning the karma bus, and Ken reacted when karma was delivered. You can tell by the tone of this thread that most neutral supporters were quite fine with seeing that karma delivered and didn't begrudge Ken his moment. Sure, it was a bit low class, but there's nothing cowardly about waiting until a smartarse prediction is proven wrong before laughing at / taunting the clown who made such prediction.

As many have mentioned, Ginni took it well, to his credit.

And I've already said that it was reasonable / understandable for Sicily to hit back at Ken, but it was pathetic for him to continue to do so when it was Breust's moment.

And please, no-one is going to repeat "you little f*ckwit" on TV after the event. Stop making that into an issue. No-one repeated what Sicily was saying out there either.

 

[Footy Smarts]

It's crazy how a Captain sticking up for one of his players is somehow turned into a negative.

Not a negative for me. But him almost dropping Breust cause he was gobbing off at Ken was very funny.

 

[Skeppersap]

Let's all remember the point in time you saw a meme that was circulating on social media ( https://bsky.app/profile/ajsadauskas.bsky.social/post/3l3zzx7a74y2q ) and then four days later decided to palm it off as your own on BigFooty.

Never seen that before...

Another good meltdown though. The time you have invested in this thread says a lot.

 

[Toump Ass]

“You’re not flying anywhere Jack, you little ****wit” isn’t very friendly to me.

Sounds like a little bit of "banter" to me. Bit cheeky, bit of old man trying to act like the young folk. Little "cringe" maybe.

Sissy was the one really going off his nut, very poor look and detracted from that guy who played 300 games being chaired of the ground. Not what you want from your leaders- total lack of equanimity and class. Was acting like a Class A dickhead.

 

[sr36]

If Ken had been in complete control of his emotions and actions, as you claim,

If Ken had genuinely done nothing wrong, as many in this thread have claimed,

If Ken had not been at all aggressive, as many in this thread have claimed,

If it was all just an overreaction by Sicily and Mitchell, as many in this thread have claimed,

And if Ken was of the genuine view that he had said and done nothing wrong,

Then there would have repeated, verbatim, accurately and fully, what he had said:

"Jack said 'see you in 14 days' during the week, and after we'd already won the game, when the players had shaken hands and were about to chair off Luke Breust, I just told him:

"You're not flying anywhere, you little ****wit!

"I don't know social media, I just do what I do, and y'know what I shouldn't have done it, I should apologise to the boys, I shouldn't have probably done it, but the reality was you throw something we throw it back occasionally."

The reason such an action seems absurd is because you know that calling someone a little ****wit is clearly an aggressive act.

Deep he knew already that his emotions had gotten the better of him and he went too far.

So he deliberately downplayed what he said.

I think you may have Ginni's issue and realise you need to adjust for different audiences.

Heaps of players say shit like "light work" or "see you in 14 days". And shit stir their opponents. They just don't broadcast it to the general public. And they aren't open to the media about much of what they say to each other when on the ground.

Kenny ****ed up because he forgot how public the centre of Adelaide Oval is and how close the cameras get and also wouldn't have been expecting Sicily to make it such a scene. But to read anything at all into him not being fully open and doubling down in a press conference is ridiculous.

 

[sr36]

I said it before and I'll say it again, I think we need to stop pointing the blame at sis for any of this. Kenny acted unsportsmanlike at the end of the game and instigated the incident. How people here personally feel about the gloat is irrelevant, the context is totally different.

Shit happened in terms of his reaction or Kenny's reaction on the night. But Sic is the only one who came out the next day and said he was proud about his response. I wouldn't give a shit if he had have been rueful, admittedly just copying his coach. But a thing of pride? What? You were leading by being held back by your teammates?

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

Still so disingenuous.

For a start, you (Hawks supporters) keep downplaying or ignoring that Ginni started it and was stupid not to realise his public post would go viral because it was a smartarse, disrespectful snipe at PA. You continue the disingenuity by pretending it wouldn't or shouldn't have been taken as an insult by the whole PA playing and coaching group and quite possibly woke them from the malaise they were in following their mauling by Sydney.

Disingenuous for not mentioning Ginni?

Below is from my first in this thread. I discussed Ginni's immaturity at length before I mentioned Ken Hinkley. Go back and read it for yourself:

Honestly, a bit of a media-driven storm in a teacup that will soon be forgotten.

But let's tease this out a bit.

The initial social post by Ginni was an immature comment by a 21-year-old.

I'm sure most people reading this have made immature comments when they were that age. I know I have. Social media hadn't been invented yet when I was 21, but if it had been around when I was that age I'm sure I would have posted some dumb comments on social media.

More importantly, the comments were made ahead of the match.

It's not uncommon for athletes, in many sports, to talk smack about their opponents before a match, or a contest, or a fight.

That's the spirit in which Ginni's comments were made.

So yeah, I'm not and haven't argued that Ginni's comments weren't immature.

And likewise, in calling Jack a "very young player", Sam Mitchell was highliting the state of Ginni's emotional maturity.

And as a society, we expect more emotional maturity from a 57-year-old than we do from s 21-year-old.

Ken could have responded through the media. Or at a press conference. Or he could have replied to the post on social media. Or made his comments in a pre-match interview. Or told one of his players to tell Ginni he's not flying anywhere during the match itself.

Ken Hinkley chose not to.

As we now know, it's not because he had nothing to say. It's not because he was the bigger man.

No, Ken Hinkley chose to stay silent because he's a coward.

He was under pressure because Port had choked the previous week. His job was on the line. And he knew victory wasn't certain.

And with good reason. Had Sic struck that final shot for goal a few millimetres differently, Port would have lost.

I stand by that view.

Had Ken responded to Ginnivan's pre-match comments before the game, and publicly backed his team in by doing it, he would have come across as less of a coward.

Having just seen his team to a close, hard-fought finals win against a tough opponent, Ken could have been the bigger man.

He saw how devastated the Hawks were with the result. Having been silent all week, he could have been the bigger man and let the scoreboard do the talking.

But Ken Hinkley is a coward.

He only felt confident to begin his pre-match smack talking after the final siren had sounded.

He waited until the players were gathering to chair off a legend of the game, Luke Breust , in his 300th game.

Breust is known as one of the best small forwards of the modern era, and has been an integral part of multiple premiership-winning sides.

A far better footballer than Hinkley was, either in the final years of Fitzroy, or as a part of the early '90s Geelong squad that's remembered for losing grand finals to West Coast and Carlton.

It's a record of choking that Hinkley has proudly continued as Port Adelaide's coach.

It was with his players standings behind him, with the win firmly secured, that Ken chose to be a bad winner, and make his belated response to the pre-match smack talk.

With a level of emotional maturity the football world has come to expect, it was then that Ken Hinkley, nearly 60-years-old, decided to taunt a young 21-year-old.

And has been since been independently confirmed, Ken's comments didn't stop at friendly banter with "you're not flying anywhere", as he had initially falsely claimed.

If that's what he had said, then it's a bit cringeworthy to see a 57-year-old resorting to the sameimmature taunts as a 21-year-old. And his timing was incredibly disrespectful to Breust.

But that'snot what he said.

In his heightened emotional state, he escalated it and shouted "you're not flying anywhere, Jack, you little f*ckwit!"

Having just heard an opposition coach shout "Jack, you little f*ckwit", James Sicily was entirely right as captain to have a word to Ken Hinkley. That was an act of leadership.

Frankly, James would have been delinquent in his role as a captain and a leader to not say anything.

Hinkley knew he went too far. That's why in his post-match interview he falsely claimed that he only told Jack that he was not flying anywhere, leaving off the bit about calling him a "little f*ckwit".

He didn't immediately own up, because he's a coward.

In Sam Mitchell's press conference, he mostly spoke about his disappointment about the season being over. He also highlighted Port Adelaide's dominance and praised Luke Breust.

So the main reason he was visibly upset in that press conference was because his team had just been eliminated in a close final, not because of the incident.

His main comments about the incident were in praise of the leadership James Sicily showed.

In the one line the media has shown repeatedly out of context, Mitchell accurately pointed out that Jack is very young relative to Ken, and that Ken has been in the game for a very long time.

Sam also alluded to Ken's "little f-wit" comment as being aggressive words. I think most reasonable people would agree that calling someone a "f-wit" is aggressive language.

So yes, Jack is an emotionally immature 21-year-old.

The main person who was morally at-fault is Ken Hinkley, a view that's shared by the AFL's investigation of the incident.

And both James Sicily and Sam Mitchell have handled this incident well.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm not outraged about any of it. I think it's all a bit of fun - Ginni's tweet, Kenny gloating and us non-Hawk supporters laughing at Hawk reactions.

I'm very surprised how triggered HFC were and that they connect being triggered with leadership. Club needs to move on - not just from Clarko himself, but from the things he used to justify his angry vents as it seems he's left that rubbish with the next generation of leaders. and the ex-Hawks are just the ugly Aussie cricketers and need to shut up - their spirit of footy is dropping the knees in packs but being polite afterwards - that's last generation - their spirit of footy is a load of shit - out of date.

You’re surprised that a club took umbrage to one of its players being called a “little ****head” multiple times by a senior coach after the siren(to the point where Ratogalea had to tap him and tell him to give it a rest)…instead calling it being triggered and carrying on about Clarko.

No other club would stand for that sort of crap after a final siren.

I’d like to think you’re not arguing in bad faith, but it’s quite impossible.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sounds like a little bit of "banter" to me. Bit cheeky, bit of old man trying to act like the young folk. Little "cringe" maybe.

Sissy was the one really going off his nut, very poor look and detracted from that guy who played 300 games being chaired of the ground. Not what you want from your leaders- total lack of equanimity and class. Was acting like a Class A dickhead.

Here we go again.

Ginnivan, disrespectful, had it coming.

Ken, just a bit of banter swearing and calling opposition players names after a game.
Sicily the real issue. Should have just let it happen.

Broken brains, everywhere.

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

Never seen that before...

Looking forward to reading your next repost of a social media meme you've never seen before. There's some good ones on Reddit

 

[z547043]

You’d have no issue with the Sam Mitchell injection jibe then, seeing as it was an accurate description of what Bombers players did.

The AFL didn’t either. They did fine Port 20k though. But then again there wasn’t ex Essendon players in the media and Essendon officials working themselves up to hysterics over it.

 

[z547043]

Don’t let facts get in the way of a nice melt.

Jack didn’t make a tweet to gloat.
He wrote a comment on a mates Instagram post, and did not reference either Hinkley or Port.

Hawks supporters aren’t outraged or sooking, far from it. The majority I’ve seen are loving and laughing at how broken posters like you and a bunch of ex-players and commentators like Robbo, King etc are because Hawthorn offended you all year long by simply winning and having fun.

Didn’t reference Port or Hinkley, but anyone with half a brain knows what the inference was. God you guys are deluded. Keep chugging the Hok Ball Kool Aid.

 

[z547043]

More mental gymnastics.

Ginnivan comment on insta, bad sportsmanship.
Hinkley goading player after siren directly, good banter.
Sicily responding, fragile.

This will never not be funny.

Everyone has basically said Ken was a clown. Read Barrett or Connelly’s take. No one comes out of this great. Least of all the Hawk coach and former greats sooking it up.

 

[sr36]

You’re surprised that a club took umbrage to one of its players being called a “little ****head” multiple times by a senior coach after the siren(to the point where Ratogalea had to tap him and tell him to give it a rest)…instead calling it being triggered and carrying on about Clarko.

No other club would stand for that sort of crap after a final siren.

I’d like to think you’re not arguing in bad faith, but it’s quite impossible.

What's so funny about all of this is that Dermie used to stand on people's heads, Lewis, Hodge and Mitchell used to drop the knee on blokes on the bottom of a pack with their coach proudly baosting about them playing unsociable football, the current team have taken playing for high frees to unseen levels - including headbutting the ground. Yet they and their fans are lecturing the comp about the spirit of football and acceptable etiquette. Maybe, just maybe, their spirit of football isn't shared by a heap of the football public, who couldn't give a shit that Hinkley took the piss out of Ginnivan, or whether he called him a ****wit or not.

 

[z547043]

Ginni's see you in 14 days comment was clearly friendly pre-match banter.

Kenny's post match response to the pre-match banter was: "You’re not flying anywhere Jack, you little ****wit”.

If Ken had left it at "you're not flying anywhere", then he might have been a coward for delivering it after the game, but it's friendly banter.

An older coach who has been in the fame a long time shouting "you little ****wit!" at a very young player is self-evidently no longer friendly, and can be read as somewhat aggressive.

Especially if it's done after everyone has already shaken hands


It's telling that in his immediate post-match interview, Ken claimed he said "you're not flying anywhere" and didn't mention the part where he shouted "Jack you little f*ckwit".

He knew admitting that part would make him look bad.


The person in this situation with a clear inability to emotionally regulate is Ken Hinkley.

People who emotionally regulate don't let phrases like "Jack you little f*ckwit" slip, especially at inappropriate moments.

In the face of an opposition coach who was going too far an hurling abuse at a much younger teammate, at an inappropriate time, having a word to the coach was an entirely appropriate action.

As a person in a position of authority, it showed leadership.

Victims. So many Hawk victims here who just engaged in some friendly pre-game banter. You’ve swayed me.

It will be refreshing to see how the vicitim complex era delivers under Mitchell, where they espouse sporting values above all else and educate other clubs on proper and fair conduct.

It will be a sharp movement away from the Clarkson era where they were the Unsociable Hawks.

I guess those two never really got on anyway.

 

[Skeppersap]

Looking forward to reading your next repost of a social media meme you've never seen before. There's some good ones on Reddit

Good for you. Too busy living my life.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What's so funny about all of this is that Dermie used to stand on people's heads, Lewis, Hodge and Mitchell used to drop the knee on blokes on the bottom of a pack with their coach proudly baosting about them playing unsociable football, the current team have taken playing for high frees to unseen levels - including headbutting the ground. Yet they and their fans are lecturing the comp about the spirit of football and acceptable etiquette. Maybe, just maybe, their spirit of football isn't shared by a heap of the football public, who couldn't give a shit that Hinkley took the piss out of Ginnivan, or whether he called him a ****wit or not.

Case in point at how the big bad Hawks have broken your brain. Thanks for proving an earlier point of mine which you argued against.

If it wasn’t already obvious by the amount of time you spend in the Hawks rebuild thread, here you are talking about what Dermott did 30 years ago, or what Hodge or Mitchell did 10 years ago.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Everyone has basically said Ken was a clown. Read Barrett or Connelly’s take. No one comes out of this great. Least of all the Hawk coach and former greats sooking it up.

Nah, not everyone at all if you read this thread.

 

[Farang83150]

. The majority I’ve seen are loving and laughing at how broken posters like you and a bunch of ex-players and commentators like Robbo, King etc are because Hawthorn offended you all year long by simply winning and having fun.

That proves you just don't get it.
Lots of us loved the Hawks underdog winning.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The AFL didn’t either. They did fine Port 20k though. But then again there wasn’t ex Essendon players in the media and Essendon officials working themselves up to hysterics over it.

Of course there were, what rubbish.

Robbo had a conniption.

 

[sr36]

Case in point at how the big bad Hawks have broken your brain. Thanks for proving an earlier point of mine which you argued against.

If it wasn’t already obvious by the amount of time you spend in the Hawks rebuild thread, here you are talking about what Dermott did 30 years ago, or what Hodge or Mitchell did 10 years ago.

Is this another attempted gloat from someone pearl clutching about gloating.

The main difference between you and Kenny is that his gloats hit the mark and cause tantrums.

 

[z547043]

Of course there were, what rubbish.

Robbo had a conniption.

Who listens to Slobbo?

Hird came out and publicly accepted Mitchell’s apology and blamed the media.

That’s probably how I would suggest Hawk greats and coaches should have handled this one, instead they went the victim and outrage route.

Hence, why we are here.