Oppo Camp Jack Ginnivan (Traded to Hawks 2023)

[Markfs]

And yet Pendlebury continues to be a good player. Pace is a great attribute, but it is only one of many that make a good player.

its true.. there are a lot of players who play but dont bring pace. But he has pace/strength limitations at the moment.

 

[Markfs]

Agree.
Natural footballers find a place because they keep finding the footy and giving it to others. Pace is one attribute but it is by no means the only determinant of suitability. The first consideration in my mind should always be to choose natural footballers

i have the view that some things are collective...that the team collectively needs a certain amount of pace and if ginnivan isnt providing it, then others have to... like mccreery. There comes a tipping point when you can only carry a certain amount of slow players...

 

[jonbe54]

Agree.
Natural footballers find a place because they keep finding the footy and giving it to others. Pace is one attribute but it is by no means the only determinant of suitability. The first consideration in my mind should always be to choose natural footballers

Which is what we have been doing the last 18 months and look at the rewards we've reaped.

 

[Countrypie]

i have the view that some things are collective...that the team collectively needs a certain amount of pace and if ginnivan isnt providing it, then others have to... like mccreery. There comes a tipping point when you can only carry a certain amount of slow players...

Agree with that as well..although quick ball movement > fleetness of foot. 18 X Greg Willams isn't going to work nor is 18 X Mark Fraser. I well remember Crackers Keenan claiming that Tony Shaw had hidden pace because he was two steps ahead of everyone else. Straight line speed is pretty meh for me. Getting to the drop of the ball first is, in my opinion the most important skill for medium and small sized players

 

[JuniorB]

Agree.
Natural footballers find a place because they keep finding the footy and giving it to others. Pace is one attribute but it is by no means the only determinant of suitability. The first consideration in my mind should always be to choose natural footballers

I agree.
We've been through the drafting of athletes who couldn't catch a cold.
Jay Rantall could run all day, but couldn't get the footy.
Sidey, by contrast, can run all day (although slower) and knows what to do with the footy, especially close to goal.
Ash Johnson is someone who, on limited viewing, seems to be a natural.
And Nick, of course.

 

[jonbe54]

I agree.
We've been through the drafting of athletes who couldn't catch a cold.
Jay Rantall could run all day, but couldn't get the footy.
Sidey, by contrast, can run all day (although slower) and knows what to do with the footy, especially close to goal.
Ash Johnson is someone who, on limited viewing, seems to be a natural.
And Nick, of course.

We have been drafting footballers for 18 months now and the difference is very clearly demonstrated.

 

[domus]

i have the view that some things are collective...that the team collectively needs a certain amount of pace and if ginnivan isnt providing it, then others have to... like mccreery. There comes a tipping point when you can only carry a certain amount of slow players...

That's why I don't like Bianoc's presence in our current 22. He tips us over. Too slow. The pressure falls to others and some are already working harder becasue of Jack as you say.

 

[sr36]

Agree.
Natural footballers find a place because they keep finding the footy and giving it to others. Pace is one attribute but it is by no means the only determinant of suitability. The first consideration in my mind should always be to choose natural footballers

I think you can be a star without pace, but in some ways it's tougher to be a slow role player. Stars get it often enough and do enough with the footy that it makes up for the fact that they can't close down or open up space as effectively as quick guys can.

 

[jonbe54]

I think you can be a star without pace, but in some ways it's tougher to be a slow role player. Stars get it often enough and do enough with the footy that it makes up for the fact that they can't close down or open up space as effectively as quick guys can.

Tony Shaw was no star - sensational captain and leader - but ordinary pace and sub standard kicking. Didn't stop him - if the desire and dedication is there nothing will stop you.

 

[sr36]

We have been drafting footballers for 18 months now and the difference is very clearly demonstrated.

I'd say we've gone the other way.

Begg - the super athlete with a great attitude who they're trying to turn into a footballer?
Johnson, a super athlete without many runs on the board.
3 SA kids with genuine pace.

 

[jonbe54]

I'd say we've gone the other way.

Begg - the super athlete with a great attitude who they're trying to turn into a footballer?
Johnson was a footballer, but a super athlete.
3 SA kids with genuine pace.

Begg yes but for the rest I disagree lets leave it there.

 

[Finnishpie]

I'd say we've gone the other way.

Begg - the super athlete with a great attitude who they're trying to turn into a footballer?
Johnson was a footballer, but a super athlete.
3 SA kids with genuine pace.

Begg is an athlete? Really?

 

[sr36]

Begg is an athlete? Really?

197cm guy who moves beautifully, with a huge leap, and excellent balance and not many runs on the board at all as a footballer when drafted.

 

[Markfs]

i do think that derek hine has drafted less gifted athletes that other teams have passed over.... mark mcgough....ben crocker

20

Ben Crocker

Age

27

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

6.3

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.7

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

9.3

2star

K

7.5

3star

HB

1.8

1star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.5

2star

G

0.8

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.0

4star

..... trent bianco....jack ginnivan...

i think some teams recruiting people just wont draft players who are slow...

didnt ginnivan kick 100 goals in junior footy? or was that his dad? He would have attracted a few scouts but i think his speed probably put them off. Now I dont follow the drafting threads so I'm just guessing from miles away...

 

[Kirby]

Ginni is never going to be fast (he's not slow either - but he won't have pace as an asset) so he just needs to work on his strength. That is something he can improve on with age and more pre-seasons.

 

[Pie eyed]

That's why I don't like Bianoc's presence in our current 22. He tips us over. Too slow. The pressure falls to others and some are already working harder becasue of Jack as you say.

I appears to me that Bianca suffers not from a lack of pace as much as that he endeavours to find the best option and at least half the time he procrastinates before delivering...because there are either too many options or those he identifies are shut down before he can make the decision.

I actually don't think this is a fault.
Once he is around the 50 game mark people will be praising his decision making.

 

[gouki88]

Ginni is never going to be fast (he's not slow either - but he won't have pace as an asset) so he just needs to work on his strength. That is something he can improve on with age and more pre-seasons.

Yup. Being able to resist tackles, as well as bait them into trying to rip his head off, will be a real weapon.

 

[Markfs]

I appears to me that Bianca suffers not from a lack of pace as much as that he endeavours to find the best option and at least half the time he procrastinates before delivering...because there are either too many options or those he identifies are shut down before he can make the decision.

I actually don't think this is a fault.
Once he is around the 50 game mark people will be praising his decision making.

the good thing is that he is showing some improvement... I dont want to boot the browns but they appear to remain stagnant...

 

[Markfs]

Yup. Being able to resist tackles, as well as bait them into trying to rip his head off, will be a real weapon.

he needs to earn the public's respect like selwood has done... this helps with the head high tackles. If he remains a cheeky bugger, umpires will just sink the boot in and he will limp off the scene like lindsay thomas. The secret for joel is that he's untouchable with the media and that puts a lot of pressure on umpires to give him a fair deal.

in fact, i was looking at tom hawkins last night and he is super dooper super polite...sickly.... i think that helps when he pushes guys in the back

 

[ToonAussie]

Begg yes but for the rest I disagree lets leave it there.

Well, you're wrong.

The SA kids do have genuine pace esp Harrison and Murley.
And Ash has some good footballing nous and athleticism.


Strange post

 

[jonbe54]

Well, you're wrong.

The SA kids do have genuine pace esp Harrison and Murley.
And Ash has some good footballing nous and athleticism.


Strange post

Toon you misread the interchange.

I was arguing against PURE athletes which we have been been recruiting until recently.

I was in fact advocating the fact that those three boys AREN'T pure atheletes.

 

[Toecrusher]

he needs to earn the public's respect like selwood has done... this helps with the head high tackles. If he remains a cheeky bugger, umpires will just sink the boot in and he will limp off the scene like lindsay thomas. The secret for joel is that he's untouchable with the media and that puts a lot of pressure on umpires to give him a fair deal.

in fact, i was looking at tom hawkins last night and he is super dooper super polite...sickly.... i think that helps when he pushes guys in the back

Hawkins is probably a decent bloke, but you can't judge him on recent media.

Geelong have been sickly the way they try to sanitise everything. As soon a one of them get reported, they all go to bat for him, saying he's a great bloke, wouldn't hurt a fly etc.

Of course, the media suck it in like Robbo in a hot dog factory.

 

[Markfs]

Hawkins is probably a decent bloke, but you can't judge him on recent media.

Geelong have been sickly the way they try to sanitise everything. As soon a one of them get reported, they all go to bat for him, saying he's a great bloke, wouldn't hurt a fly etc.

Of course, the media suck it in like Robbo in a hot dog factory.

isnt that smart to be liked? I think it's like shooting yourself in the foot if the world thinks you're a smart arse....

 

[JuniorB]

We have been drafting footballers for 18 months now and the difference is very clearly demonstrated.

Yep!

 

[stui magpie]

didnt ginnivan kick 100 goals in junior footy? or was that his dad? He would have attracted a few scouts but i think his speed probably put them off. Now I dont follow the drafting threads so I'm just guessing from miles away...

From memory both did. His Dad was the coach of jacks junior team in the season he cracked 100 and in the last game moved Jack to the back pocket at half time to stop him breaking his club record.

The kid is a footballer. Yeah, he has things to work on but as others have said, he's only 19 FFS