Oppo Camp Jack Ginnivan (Traded to Hawks 2023)

[sr36]

Yeah... it's not about when it ends, it's about the length.

Clearly you don't offer your best youth a 1 year only deal.

Were any of his draft contemporaries given extensions? Unless they were, they've all been at the club the same time as Ginivan and have their contracts expire at the end of the year. Not sure why you're assuming they are any more secure than him.

 

[sr36]

Not really. Plenty of rookies get 1 year contracts. Has played a few games, its understandable. Probably once he becomes a regular in the side he'll get a longer contract. I doubt ge is losing sleep over whether its 1 or 2 years.

I didn't think Bianco struggled at all. Especially for basically a 1st year player at afl level, I felt he adapted pretty well, playing up forward. His weapon would be his sublime ball use. Knows how to bring others into the game. A couple extra pre-seasons was only gonna help.

He did OK.

I hope he's smashing the running though - as a small guy with mediocre speed, mediocre endurance and who hasn't shown a big inside game, he's going to have to be pretty freakish to make it in the longer term.

 

[Jen2310]

He did OK.

I hope he's smashing the running though - as a small guy with mediocre speed, mediocre endurance and who hasn't shown a big inside game, he's going to have to be pretty freakish to make it in the longer term.

Given he along with a select few others won the beep test the other week, I'd say his endurance is good. He has also bulked up a bit more.

 

[sr36]

Given he along with a select few others won the beep test the other week, I'd say his endurance is good. He has also bulked up a bit more.

Good to hear. He's one who has to do a lot of work on his body as he's not as physically gifted as most AFL players.

 

[Kappa]

Were any of his draft contemporaries given extensions? Unless they were, they've all been at the club the same time as Ginivan and have their contracts expire at the end of the year. Not sure why you're assuming they are any more secure than him.

Most kids - Eg Ruscoe, got 2 year extensions whilst I think he was the only one to only get a 1 year extension.

It's pretty obvious what that means, I don't know what the fuss is about. Both he and Bianco have massive weaknesses they will need to fix to make it.

 

[Jen2310]

Good to hear. He's one who has to do a lot of work on his body as he's not as physically gifted as most AFL players.

yeah thats right. Some have to do extra work, which is fine. But hopefully eventually he can push up into the midfield. Maybe be a mid-forward

 

[sr36]

Most kids - Eg Ruscoe, got 2 year extensions whilst I think he was the only one to only get a 1 year extension.

It's pretty obvious what that means, I don't know what the fuss is about. Both he and Bianco have massive weaknesses they will need to fix to make it.

I'm referring to the blokes in his draft year. He was brought into line with all kids who he was drafted with who were taken in the main draft rather than rookie. I don't think it says anything at all.

 

[Scodog10]

Half the list probably has their contract finish at the end of 2022.

Closer to three quarters actually.

On a side note Kappa’s point is both mad and accurate. Mad because he got a contract extension I mean arguing that in any context is silly.

Accurate because a one year deal when you’re signing a guy like Noble to two years seems odd. It’s unlikely the 4 year rookie rule will stay in place and a two year deal takes him to 3 years on the rookie list which made more sense from a list management perspective, IMO.

 

[ZEV]

I absolutely cannot wait to see him play against Geelong this year. Really looking forward to the big melts when he drops the knees and raises the arm to draw the high contact free... love this kid!

 

[sr36]

Closer to three quarters actually.

On a side note Kappa’s point is both mad and accurate. Mad because he got a contract extension I mean arguing that in any context is silly.

Accurate because a one year deal when you’re signing a guy like Noble to two years seems odd. It’s unlikely the 4 year rookie rule will stay in place and a two year deal takes him to 3 years on the rookie list which made more sense from a list management perspective, IMO.

My understanding is the rookie list doesn't matter in terms of contract extensions. Noble for instance has just signed a contract where he will be on the rookie list for the first year and the main list for the second year. I think it was just a standard automatic roll over for a rookie they're keeping. I doubt it involved consideration, beyond deciding to keep him, or negotiation.

 

[Gone Critical]

Closer to three quarters actually.

On a side note Kappa’s point is both mad and accurate. Mad because he got a contract extension I mean arguing that in any context is silly.

Accurate because a one year deal when you’re signing a guy like Noble to two years seems odd. It’s unlikely the 4 year rookie rule will stay in place and a two year deal takes him to 3 years on the rookie list which made more sense from a list management perspective, IMO.

I understand the sentiment with Noble because he looks like he will struggle to be long term best 22 when we improve. Still at the club for 2 and 1/2 seasons and pretty locked into the 22 for the last 2 seasons. In that situation it would be pretty hard to give him rolling yearly contracts. He deserves 2 years based on what he has done the 2 before.

Ginnivan showed a fair bit in his first season but he is far from being over the line as an established AFL player. We have a bundle of players from the last 3 years in that group and some will be culled as we go, Rantall the first example. Until they show more keeping a kid like Ginnivan on a 1 year extension early in his career gives us the opportunity to cull the ones we want to cull if it comes to that. Wise list management.

 

[sideswipe]

I understand the sentiment with Noble because he looks like he will struggle to be long term best 22 when we improve. Still at the club for 2 and 1/2 seasons and pretty locked into the 22 for the last 2 seasons. In that situation it would be pretty hard to give him rolling yearly contracts. He deserves 2 years based on what he has done the 2 before.

Ginnivan showed a fair bit in his first season but he is far from being over the line as an established AFL player. We have a bundle of players from the last 3 years in that group and some will be culled as we go, Rantall the first example. Until they show more keeping a kid like Ginnivan on a 1 year extension early in his career gives us the opportunity to cull the ones we want to cull if it comes to that. Wise list management.

Ginnivan might also be comfortable with a one year contract because he backs himself to play more games in 22 then justify a much bigger contract for 23 on.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Can’t see the fuss. Re-signing rookie listed players for single years is quite common. There’s a reason they are rookies... because they might not make the grade. Unless they make an immediate impact the cautious approach is to renew them on a year by year basis until they make it or they don’t.

 

[Abdul_The_Bull]

Contract lengths and timing are not such a straight-forward thing. The club would need to balance the timing of the ending of all contracted players (wouldn't want them all expiring at the same time). The individual player's may want differing lengths of contract as well. If you believe in yourself as a rookie or new recruit then elect for a short-term contract so that your value rises at contract time. The flip side is that you wouldn't want to be locked in to a new contract and then improve exponentially and be paid unders.
I expect that the club would have a position (on length of contract) and the players/managers would be the same.

 

[ipswichpies]

I think Jack will surprise a few people here going forward, I think he will become a long term player at Collingwood and I think he can kick 30 to 40 goals a season on a consistent basis. He will be the sort of player that does not need many touches to have an impact , people forget he was 1 of the youngest on the list last year and quite impressive at times, great to see he is putting on some size and speed.

 

[Scodog10]

I understand the sentiment with Noble because he looks like he will struggle to be long term best 22 when we improve. Still at the club for 2 and 1/2 seasons and pretty locked into the 22 for the last 2 seasons. In that situation it would be pretty hard to give him rolling yearly contracts. He deserves 2 years based on what he has done the 2 before.

Ginnivan showed a fair bit in his first season but he is far from being over the line as an established AFL player. We have a bundle of players from the last 3 years in that group and some will be culled as we go, Rantall the first example. Until they show more keeping a kid like Ginnivan on a 1 year extension early in his career gives us the opportunity to cull the ones we want to cull if it comes to that. Wise list management.

There’s four elements to the Noble/ Ginnivan discussion in terms of why I mentioned it.

Top level I’d have cut Noble and what he has done previously has no bearing on his future. Secondly if re-contracting him I’d have gone one year because his second year he could be cooked at Collingwood, but he’ll be on the senior list. Thirdly if I’m offering one a two year deal and one a single year deal I’m going the reverse of what the club did for the reasons I’ve already provided. Lastly (and more in response to others that mentioned it) I don’t really care what either of them wants from a contract. From a list management perspective they’re both very low priority and get what they’re given. If Ginnivan left because he’d prefer a one year deal or Noble because he wanted two more fool them, IMO. They’re both replaceable and don’t confuse the two year offer to Ginnivan with my thoughts on him v what’s best for the list.

Noble is quality enough to be on an AFL list, but he’s the wrong guy at Collingwood and we’ll no doubt spend the next 3-5 years figuring that out. I like Ginnivan and even though he’s no lock a second year of him on the rookie list v a second year with Noble on the senior list was the smart call.

 

[jonbe54]

I understand the sentiment with Noble because he looks like he will struggle to be long term best 22 when we improve. Still at the club for 2 and 1/2 seasons and pretty locked into the 22 for the last 2 seasons. In that situation it would be pretty hard to give him rolling yearly contracts. He deserves 2 years based on what he has done the 2 before.

Ginnivan showed a fair bit in his first season but he is far from being over the line as an established AFL player. We have a bundle of players from the last 3 years in that group and some will be culled as we go, Rantall the first example. Until they show more keeping a kid like Ginnivan on a 1 year extension early in his career gives us the opportunity to cull the ones we want to cull if it comes to that. Wise list management.

We certainly have a few from the last couple of drafts that are not there yet but I tend to cut them a bit of slack because there has been no VFL - after

 

[Kappa]

I think Jack will surprise a few people here going forward, I think he will become a long term player at Collingwood and I think he can kick 30 to 40 goals a season on a consistent basis. He will be the sort of player that does not need many touches to have an impact , people forget he was 1 of the youngest on the list last year and quite impressive at times, great to see he is putting on some size and speed.

30 goals a year with low defensive pressure is no where near enough output for a small forward.

 

[manicpie]

30 goals a year with low defensive pressure is no where near enough output for a small forward.

Why do you keep saying he doesn't have any defensive side? His pressure acts are through the roof

 

[Anzacday]

Why do you keep saying he doesn't have any defensive side? His pressure acts are through the roof

I think he achieved his goal

 

[Kappa]

Why do you keep saying he doesn't have any defensive side? His pressure acts are through the roof

It’s the reason he slid so far in the draft, watch him play. Being near a player and putting your arms out counts as a pressure act, the stat is meaningless.

 

[ipswichpies]

30 goals a year with low defensive pressure is no where near enough output for a small forward.

how about 40 goals would that do, I have not posted for 3 months but I see you have not changed 1 iota, I think he has a higher ceiling than some here think it will be good to revisit this in 2 or 3 seasons, the best thing about him as I stated is that he does not need many touches to score and he is accurate even at 50mtrs. A fine prospect 1 of many at the club but I do not think you will acknowledge that that is a step too far for you.

Have a nice day.

 

[Kappa]

how about 40 goals would that do, I have not posted for 3 months but I see you have not changed 1 iota, I think he has a higher ceiling than some here think it will be good to revisit this in 2 or 3 seasons, the best thing about him as I stated is that he does not need many touches to score and he is accurate even at 50mtrs. A fine prospect 1 of many at the club but I do not you will acknowledge that that is a step to far for you.

Have a nice day.

That’s fine, people are allowed to have different opinions on players. FYI clubs will never give their good young prospects only 1 year deals.

 

[well left]

I really like Ginnivan and think he’ll become a player but given where we are at and with a new coaching panel coming in the 1 year extension was prudent list management.


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[Soups]

Also on the little G train. I reckon he plays round 1.