Oppo Camp Jack Ginnivan (Traded to Hawks 2023)

[76woodenspooners]

If we want to talk about health, I'm happy to have that discussion. You don't ban a player for 2 weeks because they ate fried chicken.

Yeah, but you do ban a player for two years because their illicit substance was cut with something that trips them up with ASADA.

I get the young people risk taking argument … but getting bad hair-do’s, wearing purple ties and other ridiculous clothes, choosing lovers that your parents warned you about …

… plenty of risky bad choices to make in this world without resorting to ones that put your job / career on the line.

 

[lenny&carl]

I had a beer the other night, actually.... But it's a rare occurrence.

On another note: who is the bystander who filmed Ginnivan? What a loathsome dog act. If someone filmed me in a toilet I'd smash their phone.

Drugs or no, I'd have to agree! Community comes with rules, written and unwritten.

 

[Buckleys_Chance]

Should have he known better? Yes. Is he stupid and needs to mature up? yes. Does he need to be hung for it? No. A young man learning the ways of life. Everyone deserves a second chance. He'll learn and have to earn the respect back, which hopefully makes him into a better bloke and player in the long run.
He'll cop it and do his time and hopefully like Smith, put it behind it and move forward.

This is a good article.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/glenn-mcfarlane-why-jack-ginnivans-brain-fade-can-be-catalyst-for-behavioural-change/news-story/5a0365dafd7b1cdc9bf69aceafc6cc20

Great article which nails the issue. He let someone film it. Very stupid. And if other Collingwood players were there that night, do you really think he was the only one partaking? They just weren’t dumb enough to get filmed.

I think the debate I’ve read so far on this forum is about the morality of drug use, but the AFL have pretty clearly demonstrated through their illicit drug policy that they don’t care about the morality of drug use, they care about their brand and that’s why they actively cover it up with the support of the AFLPA. The message is “don’t get caught”.


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[lenny&carl]

BTW, cocaine is classed as a Very Serious Drug, in most countries that matter, because it makes you feel great and strongly causes heart and brain damage. And highly-motivates you to GO BUY SOME MOOOOOOOOORE...."even though I know I shouldn't, Lolol...oooooooh.****in hell! Where did my life go?

 

[Jen2310]

Ketamine apparently


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[Buckleys_Chance]

Dunno mate. Guessing he wasn't tested or found with any drugs.
Just a video from a month ago.

Rioli tampered with a sample. They say he did it due cultural reasons and what his community would think of a positive test but I think it also would have counted as performance enhancing because it was on game day. Much like the former Collingwood player we got from Sydney (Murrey?) some recreational drugs can count as performance enhancing if they show up on game day as opposed to random tests. Testing positive to performance enhancing drugs is a matter for ASADA but illicit drug taking is a matter that the AFL ‘handles’ and sweeps under the table with their “three strike policy” which removes people from testing after their second strike. Funny no one’s had a third strike in a few years… it’s all a PR thing and has nothing to do with morality. I get it sends a bad message to kids but the AFL are more concerned with sponsorship than morality. Ginnivan got a ban because he got caught, not because he acted immorally.


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[Finnishpie]

Yeah, but you do ban a player for two years because their illicit substance was cut with something that trips them up with ASADA.

I get the young people risk taking argument … but getting bad hair-do’s, wearing purple ties and other ridiculous clothes, choosing lovers that your parents warned you about …

… plenty of risky bad choices to make in this world without resorting to ones that put your job / career on the line.

There's a difference between performance enhancing drugs and performance reducing ones - most illicit drugs are performance reducing.

Knowing society is a place of double-standards and moralism obviously means we all have to act as hypocrites -- so we don't break the law -- and my advice to Ginnivan would be that if you're going to go doing cocaine (or whatever it was), make damn sure you aren't filmed. Have a mate look out for you. But if you want to be 100% safe, don't do it in public. If you do get caught, you're stupid.

My advice wouldn't be "don't do it." That's the advice he's heard 100 times and it didn't make one iota of difference ("don't do it" never works with drugs (or young people having sex -- there it leads to teenage pregnancies)).

I speak as someone who has worked with addicts and is an expert in addiction, drug use, and the drivers behind them....and has done a lot of research on the best ways to deal with illegal drugs in a society (which is to legalise them).

The AFL's drug policy is actually very responsible. The public shaming of drug use is just a double standard -- alcohol and tobacco are some of the worst and most damaging drugs, but they're not banned).

Anyway, rant over. Lol. #Jesus

 

[Chrispiesssss]

 

[domus]

Ketamine apparently


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Had shocking hallucinations while on that stuff a couple of years ago.

 

[sideswipe]

Rioli tampered with a sample. They say he did it due cultural reasons and what his community would think of a positive test but I think it also would have counted as performance enhancing because it was on game day. Much like the former Collingwood player we got from Sydney (Murrey?) some recreational drugs can count as performance enhancing if they show up on game day as opposed to random tests. Testing positive to performance enhancing drugs is a matter for ASADA but illicit drug taking is a matter that the AFL ‘handles’ and sweeps under the table with their “three strike policy” which removes people from testing after their second strike. Funny no one’s had a third strike in a few years… it’s all a PR thing and has nothing to do with morality. I get it sends a bad message to kids but the AFL are more concerned with sponsorship than morality. Ginnivan got a ban because he got caught, not because he acted immorally.


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That rule around game day/illicit drugs (“substances of abuse”) has changed. If an athlete can establish they used the substance unrelated to sports performance, it’s a 3 month ban.

Didn’t help Sha’carri Richardson.


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[Buckleys_Chance]

Sam Murray? Lachie Keefe? Josh Thomas? Jack Ginnivan?

Not exactly a good strike rate to have one every other year. Also, if one player is doing it at the club, you can almost guarantee one of his mates is as well.

To be fair, Keefe and Thomas tested positive to a performance enhancing drug and then used taking an illicit substance as their defence (as they said the performance enhancing drug was a common cutting agent used in cocaine). So this really highlights how the AFL takes illicit drug use far less seriously than performance enhancing drug use. Who’s to say whether they did actually take cocaine in the first place?


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[76woodenspooners]

There's a difference between performance enhancing drugs and performance reducing ones - most illicit drugs are performance reducing.

I was referring to illicit drugs being uncontrolled. Users really have NFI what’s in them - as Keeffe and JT found out the hard way.

Knowing society is a place of double-standards and moralism obviously means we all have to act as hypocrites -- so we don't break the law

Where do you draw the line between police state and anarchy?

Wherever you draw that line, people are going to get upset on both sides of the line - and that’s a good thing, society would stagnate otherwise.

My advice wouldn't be "don't do it." That's the advice he's heard 100 times and it didn't make one iota of difference

I’d imagine the “don’t do it” bit would typically be accompanied by consequences, and those consequences aren’t only punitive (Gavin Crosisca)

In Ginni’s case he got busted. He knew the risks. He’s now copping the consequences. How else should it work …?

Do you think clubs /AFL should allow players to put uncontrolled substances into their body?

Do you think clubs /AFL should threaten sanctions but not actually follow through?

What would you do if you were in the club’s / AFL’s position?

 

[Bianconeri]

My boy’s just turned 14, blah blah this and blah blah that but on current projection he’ll be invited to the draft combine tests or what ever you call them, I know drugs are rife in grass roots football, I know things about our current players that would make your heads spin, senior players now, but as a parent I feel a line needs to be drawn, i certainly don’t want my lad being exposed to a drug taking culture, do better? 4 weeks should do it, what a joke, I was a big fan of Jack, he needs to be sacked, 20 years old and he’s taking a liberty? Let some bottom feeder club will pick him up.

Can we bring back the dislike button?

 

[ClaytonM]

Great article which nails the issue. He let someone film it. Very stupid. And if other Collingwood players were there that night, do you really think he was the only one partaking? They just weren’t dumb enough to get filmed.

I think the debate I’ve read so far on this forum is about the morality of drug use, but the AFL have pretty clearly demonstrated through their illicit drug policy that they don’t care about the morality of drug use, they care about their brand and that’s why they actively cover it up with the support of the AFLPA. The message is “don’t get caught”.


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I don’t think this has anything to do with the morality of drug use. This is about him doing something illegal both in society and according to AFL rules. It is about him doing a stupid thing that has short term consequences for the club, and gives him a strike on his career.

It was something completely in his control and avoidable. Blaming the person who filmed it, justifying it because of his age, claiming a lot of other people take drugs, are all just excuses.

 

[lenny&carl]

Ketamine apparently


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Worldstar. I want my forward pockets to burn out, than fade away.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Biggest issue here for Jack, does he know the source of the drugs and purity.

Could easily go down the path of JT and Lachie Keefe unknowingly snorting coke cut with WADA banned substances.

Moral of the story here.

Know the source, do it away from prying eyes and probably not so close to Round 1.

 

[Big Bryza]

75% of AFL players do coke. Time to get a grip.

Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

27

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189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

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27.8

5star

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9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

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14.6

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2.0

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4.4

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CL

3.8

5star

once did it and 'self reported'.

Fir bump, play on.

 

[Buckleys_Chance]

There’s more than one issue going on here.
And I feel the need to spell them out.

Firstly, Ginnivan was dumb.
Doing this in a public venue, after club camp is appallingly dumb. The afl will be applying Dane Swan

Dane Swan

Age

40

Ht

185cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.9

5star

K

16.4

5star

HB

10.4

5star

M

5.9

5star

T

3.1

5star

CL

5.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

like scrutiny to him from here on. He’s brought this on himself.

Secondly, the action of the person who filmed it is tasteless and malicious. Someone intent to harm another through damaging reputation and ironically have possibly committed an illegal act filming a person in a cubicle without their consent. Are there any repercussions on them?

Next, the societal acceptance of alcohol, cocaine or anything similar needs renovation.
But saying “everyone else does it” is a crap justification for anything. There’s more to this. The gambler that blows the family rent money and the alcoholic who can’t feed the kids are on a different plane to social users. Society needs change at both ends of the spectrum. Not just one.

Lastly, and most significantly for me, Ginnivan did this knowingly and has ultimately made himself unavailable for games worth premiership points. He’s undoubtedly breached contract terms and created a Collingwood media frenzy. Ultimately it’s a negative on the ledger of a winning games and a flag this year.
This shits me.

Every AFL player is educated and knows better. And I do have a higher expectation given the high salaries my Legends membership helps pay.

He’s not a hard done by saint.
He’s a young bloke that was dumb, brought this on himself and the club.

He owes us some payback.
I want that talent on the field helping us win flags.

Great post.


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[Kappa]

Should we ban every movie that makes drug look cool to kids?

It would be good for society if we did.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

There’s a video of it floating around on social media.

 

[Big Bryza]

The legend just keeps growing.

How long until he shoots someone.

Edit: jokes aside, yes he shouldn't do coke, he's pretty unlucky to be caught given how many young blokes use this stuff.

Not a huge deal unless he does it, what, one more time this year? Or three times in the next five seasons.

Nobody should do coke, but most people do.

Time for it to be legalised, controlled, taxed etc. It aint going away any time soon.

 

[Big Bryza]

Sack him, example needs to be made, he’s a boarder line best 22 player and he decides to do drugs? Seriously, 4 week ban, FMD.

We won't have 22 to run out for round 1 if we ban all the blokes doing gear.

 

[Finnishpie]

I was referring to illicit drugs being uncontrolled. Users really have NFI what’s in them - as Keeffe and JT found out the hard way.



Where do you draw the line between police state and anarchy?

Wherever you draw that line, people are going to get upset on both sides of the line - and that’s a good thing, society would stagnate otherwise.



I’d imagine the “don’t do it” bit would typically be accompanied by consequences, and those consequences aren’t only punitive (Gavin Crosisca)

In Ginni’s case he got busted. He knew the risks. He’s now copping the consequences. How else should it work …?

Do you think clubs /AFL should allow players to put uncontrolled substances into their body?

Do you think clubs /AFL should threaten sanctions but not actually follow through?

What would you do if you were in the club’s / AFL’s position?

Where do I draw the line between police state and anarchy? Good question. It' sorta the same as asking, how should it work?

Like this: all people should have the right to put whatever they like into their bodies. It's a basic democratic principle of individual liberty. Your body, your choice.

Now, for athletes, they have their own rules for fairness. So performance enhancing drugs are rightly banned.

Otherwise, the club has the right to encourage certain behaviours but not mandate them. For example, don't take that worst drug of all -- McDonalds. Stay off the Big Macs! And any other team rules that the team agrees to (eg, no drinking the night before a game, etc). But that can only happen with player agreement. In this case, in the off season -- or at least during the holidays and days off -- the club has no right to mandate player behaviours without the players agreeing.

In this case, if I was the club, I'd publicly say: "Everyone has the right to put into their bodies whatever they like, as long as they're educated about the consequences. We think JG was stupid to allow himself to be filmed. We also want him to be sure he knows the consequences of what he's taking. All people should be kept safe and take drugs, whether that is alcohol, cocaine or coffee, in safe conditions. Otherwise, what he does in his time is nothing to do with us -- we focus on our players performances on the field and their training standards at work. We encourage healthy living, which means all things in moderation. We hope JG only takes drugs in moderation."

That would be the responsible position. But in a moralistic, hypocritical society, you then have to stand up for what is right, knowing there will be backlash.

 

[Finnishpie]

LOL. Genius.

 

[Finnishpie]

We won't have 22 to run out for round 1 if we ban all the blokes doing gear.

It'll be a competition of 1.34 teams.....