Jack or Nick Riewoldt??

[Marcel Proust]

Nick has easily the better overall finals record. Goals, marks, possessions etc as I listed above.

Nick's best goalkicking year is the same as Jack's- Nick kicked 78 goals in 2009, Jack kicked 78 in 2010 and won the Coleman. Only difference was Fevola had moved to Brisbane in 2010 and was going off the rails, and Brown was struggling with injury.

(To be fair Nick's tally includes finals. But still, in 2009 H&A season only Fevola and Brown were ahead of Nick. Jack also won Colemans with 65 and 70 goals too. Nick kicked 60 or more on 4 occasions).

AA's, AA squads, B&F's, LMT. It's nowhere near close.

Jack was playing in the 'worse than fitzroy' richmond team for his first few seasons of finals. Nick was in one of the most stacked teams ever - even made a dvd about winning consecutive games.

It's much harder to kick goals in the latter part of jacks career vs the start of nicks. Goals a game has almost halved.

Furthermore jacks style transcends stats. His footy iq and the like is off the charts and he has purposely kicked less goals and got less touched for like 8 years now. So blokes like butler and higgins can get under the radar.

Again nick was a dead set champion but it you initially looks at jacks chf 2017 as a starting point it's a good indicator

 

[PJays]

Jack was playing in the 'worse than fitzroy' richmond team for his first few seasons of finals. Nick was in one of the most stacked teams ever - even made a dvd about winning consecutive games.

It's much harder to kick goals in the latter part of jacks career vs the start of nicks. Goals a game has almost halved.

Furthermore jacks style transcends stats. His footy iq and the like is off the charts and he has purposely kicked less goals and got less touched for like 8 years now. So blokes like butler and higgins can get under the radar.

Again nick was a dead set champion but it you initially looks at jacks chf 2017 as a starting point it's a good indicator

"Stacked" goes both ways. Jack was number one option, Nick was sharing the forward line with GTrain, Kosi, Hamill, Milney etc. G-Train was first option yet Nick kicked 67 goals from CHF in 2004.

But yes, fair enough- Jack's the better goalkicker overall, factoring in lower scoring games now.

But Nick was much more versatile, did much more around the ground. Took more marks, got more of the ball, more inside 50s to set up scoring plays. And the 3rd longest standing captain in VFL/AFL history captaining 220 games. Set the training standards at his club.

 

[Marcel Proust]

"Stacked" goes both ways. Jack was number one option, Nick was sharing the forward line with GTrain, Kosi, Hamill, Milney etc. G-Train was first option yet Nick kicked 67 goals from CHF in 2004.

But yes, fair enough- Jack's the better goalkicker overall, factoring in lower scoring games now.

But Nick was much more versatile, did much more around the ground. Took more marks, got more of the ball, more inside 50s to set up scoring plays. And the 3rd longest standing captain in VFL/AFL history captaining 220 games. Set the training standards at his club.

So why did superstar nick win zero flags as the best player in such an outstanding team? Let me guess luck?

Granted, draw is rather close.

 

[PJays]

So why did superstar nick win zero flags as the best player in such an outstanding team? Let me guess luck?

Granted, draw is rather close.

Nick's finals record over 17 games is stellar.

His 3 GF's were below his usual level. But GF's aren't played in a vacuum. It takes 10 months of pre season and season, 22 Home and Away games and then lead up finals. The role he played at St Kilda cannot be overstated, as 220 games captained and 6 BnFs attest.

And yes, he's very unlucky not to have been part of a premiership team. Came very close in 2004, 2009 and 2010. Prelims in 2005 and 2008 also.

Flags are won by 30+ players plus the coaching group. Jack was just one player from that large group.

 

[quotemokc]

Nick is right on the cusp of being a legend of the game.

Jack would just sneak in to the hall of fame... maybe.

 

[King_Steele]

Nick is right on the cusp of being a legend of the game.

Jack would just sneak in to the hall of fame... maybe.

Yep. Not even close lol

 

[craffles]

Pavlich > N. Riewoldt > J. Riewoldt

 

[Tulip]

There's really no debate if you watched a big chunk of the two.

Jack is excellent, Nick was generational.

Jack is very, very good at what he does. What he does is kick goals, take big pack marks, and particularly bring his teammates into the game in a way that only an excellent KPF can.

But Nick was something else. Brilliant at absolutely everything involving the ball and an absolute endurance machine to boot. Football is honestly worse without him.

 

[Tulip]

Who knows? Melbourne can't hang on to their draftees, so he could have ended up anywhere.

Chip Frawley to Hawthorn (for mutually agreed exceptional compo) and Tom Scully to GWS and...who else?

Hogan maybe? Who was traded two years later for a bag of chips.

Weird comment.

 

[WilloTree]

Nick, probably the better player, but at the end of the day, I would prefer to have Jack's CV.

As a side note, another poll idea. The best players in history that never won a Premiership, Brownlow, Coleman or Norm Smith Medal.

I'll have a crack:

Premiership: Gary Ablett Snr
Brownlow: Wayne Carey
Coleman: Difficult one. Still find it hard to believe Barry Hall didn't win one. Kernahan, Brereton, Pavlich, Tredrea, Daicos. Actually, I'll go with Sumich. Pretty rough when you kick 111 goals in a season and still don't win it.
Norm Smith: Micheal Voss or Marlion Pickett.

 

[juss]

Jack would just sneak in to the hall of fame... maybe.

With still 20-50 games to go Jack has:
3 Colemans
3 AAs
3 premierships
664 goals (currently 25th all time).

He's a HOF certainty.

 

[Tigerandy63]

I'll have a crack:

Premiership: Gary Ablett Snr
Brownlow: Wayne Carey
Coleman: Difficult one. Still find it hard to believe Barry Hall didn't win one. Kernahan, Brereton, Pavlich, Tredrea, Daicos. Actually, I'll go with Sumich. Pretty rough when you kick 111 goals in a season and still don't win it.
Norm Smith: Micheal Voss or Marlion Pickett.

I was talking the single best player to never win any of these. It's not that easy.

Examples Robert Flower, Matthew Richardson, Nick Riewoldt.

 

[WilloTree]

I was talking the single best player to never win any of these. It's not that easy.

Examples Robert Flower, Matthew Richardson, Nick Riewoldt.

Actually makes it easier.

 

[Marcel Proust]

There's really no debate if you watched a big chunk of the two.

Jack is excellent, Nick was generational.

Jack is very, very good at what he does. What he does is kick goals, take big pack marks, and particularly bring his teammates into the game in a way that only an excellent KPF can.

But Nick was something else. Brilliant at absolutely everything involving the ball and an absolute endurance machine to boot. Football is honestly worse without him.

Watched nick enough. Usually in an overpowered saints teams that would destroy the tigers.

Yet the saints never won nick needs to take ultimate responsible.

A key forward and talisman that can't kick for goal isn't ideal either. Note jacks kicking is very good and he steps up on the biggest stage.

Nick like a great basketballer who gets hacked cause he can't shoot free throws

 

[PJays]

A key forward and talisman that can't kick for goal isn't ideal either. Note jacks kicking is very good and he steps up on the biggest stage.

Nick like a great basketballer who gets hacked cause he can't shoot free throws

Nick's goal kicking accuracy was about the same as Jack's. Marginally worse.

Nick kicked 41 goals in 17 finals, Jack has 30 in 15.

 

[WilloTree]

Nick's goal kicking accuracy was about the same as Jack's. Marginally worse.

Nick kicked 41 goals in 17 finals, Jack has 30 in 15.

Surely this isn't still going...

Just google it. It's not that hard.

psst.. Nic is the one on the right.

283​	Games​	336​
9.1​	Kicks​	12.1​
3.0​	Handballs​	4.6​
12.2​	Disposals​	16.7​
5.4​	Marks​	8.8​

 

[Marcel Proust]

Surely this isn't still going...

Just google it. It's not that hard.

psst.. Nic is the one on the right.

283​	Games​	336​
9.1​	Kicks​	12.1​
3.0​	Handballs​	4.6​
12.2​	Disposals​	16.7​
5.4​	Marks​	8.8​

3 flags.

0 flags.

It's not supercoach.

With respect getting four more touched per game means very little.

 

[WilloTree]

3 flags.

0 flags.

It's not supercoach.

Gary Ablett Snr 0 flags
Paul Pupoolo 3 flags

Wait - I think you're just being funny - or maybe sublimely idiotic.

Or do you actually think 3 flags is a winning argument?

fmd - can't wait until school goes back.

 

[WilloTree]

Chip Frawley to Hawthorn (for mutually agreed exceptional compo) and Tom Scully to GWS and...who else?

Hogan maybe? Who was traded two years later for a bag of chips.

Weird comment.

Every club loses players. It's not a big deal.

McLean, Clarke, Scully, Hogan, Silvia, Frawley, Trengove, Pruess, Tyson, Watts, Howe, Toumpus, Blease, Fitzy, Frost, .. just off the top of my head.

 

[WilloTree]

3 flags.

0 flags.

It's not supercoach.

With respect getting four more touched per game means very little.

Please stop changing your post, it's hard to keep up with your well thought through opinions. Clearly, Jack's better in your judgment because Richmond. Contrary to all the facts clearly in front of us, I join you on this ride of fantasy,

..oh, and while we're establishing 'coz Richmond' facts, LHO shot JFK, and there was no moon landing and Holt was taken by aliens and Mel Gibson made a deal with Satan, and Jimmy Hoffa went to Africa and Elvis is alive and happy working as a postie in Tasmania.

Phew - glad I got that off my chest. Was just waiting for another like-minded friend.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Please stop changing your post, it's hard to keep up with your well thought through opinions. Clearly, Jack's better in your judgment because Richmond. Contrary to all the facts clearly in front of us, I join you on this ride of fantasy,

..oh, and while we're establishing 'coz Richmond' facts, LHO shot JFK, and there was no moon landing and Holt was taken by aliens and Mel Gibson made a deal with Satan, and Jimmy Hoffa went to Africa and Elvis is alive and happy working as a postie in Tasmania.

Phew - glad I got that off my chest. Was just waiting for another like-minded friend.

To summarize, your argument is nick is the superior player based on an average of four more touched per game?

 

[Marcel Proust]

Gary Ablett Snr 0 flags
Paul Pupoolo 3 flags

Wait - I think you're just being funny - or maybe sublimely idiotic.

Or do you actually think 3 flags is a winning argument?

fmd - can't wait until school goes back.

Abletts inability to achieve success hurts his rankings. Tough but that's life

 

[WilloTree]

To summarize, your argument is nick is the superior player based on an average of four more touched per game?

No.

Your argument is that Jack is better because he has played in 3 premiership winning teams.

Which is clearly silly. I used Gary Ablett as an example. If you don't understand why, I can't see the point of explaining it twice.

 

[M Malice]

Nick the better player but not by much.

The number of premierships won by a player shouldn't mean that much when it comes to the status of a player ie. Gary Ablett Snr and Tony Lockett

Tony Lockett

Age

58

Ht

191cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.8

2star

M

6.3

5star

T

0.5

3star

G

4.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.4

5star

.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Nick the better player but not by much.

The number of premierships won by a player shouldn't mean that much when it comes to the status of a player ie. Gary Ablett Snr and Tony Lockett.

The number of flags carries a lot of weight.

Those two kicked a thousand+ goals each, so are an exception.

Not many legend classified players failed to win a flag.

I assume the HOF is similar.