Jack Riewoldt will be the AFL's best KPF in 2012

[Ron The Bear]

A question for Richmond supporters: If you could only keep one of Riewoldt or Cotchin, who would you pick?

Have posted a few times that Riewoldt's our most important player. Keeping both of them is a non-negotiable, but Riewoldt's the rarer commodity. He makes the entire forward line tick, dare I say it, in a way that Richo couldn't. Take JR out and it's bog ordinary.

 

[assjar]

Stats aside, where was jack in all those tight loses the tigers had last year? It was his chance to stand up in the last quarter and make himself known as a premier forward. But he hardly ever got a touch in those last quarters. And I was watching nearly all of them. That's when key forwards need to stand up. Like the game against north when Petrie kicked 4 or so goals in the last quarter to win. When jack starts doing that and stops his whining he will gain a lot more respect

 

[Mr Magic]

Have posted a few times that Riewoldt's our most important player. Keeping both of them is a non-negotiable, but Riewoldt's the rarer commodity. He makes the entire forward line tick, dare I say it, in a way that Richo couldn't. Take JR out and it's bog ordinary.

Yes but you are only looking at one point in time

You replace players over years of recruiting.

I am not endorsing this but if is bog ordinary the chances you will find his replacement become greater under the draft system

 

[Ron The Bear]

Yes but you are only looking at one point in time

You replace players over years of recruiting.

I am not endorsing this but if is bog ordinary the chances you will find his replacement become greater under the draft system

Yeah, I'm looking at one point in time. Right now. You sound like those supporters who says if Jack holds out in contract talks then piss him off, take pick #1 and Tom Boyd instead. It'd set us back two years. Players like Riewoldt don't come along that often, just ask the Dogs.

 

[Ferdinand Lewis]

It's a shame that Riewoldt hasn't played any finals. Because if you add them in then Franklin moves to 227.

Even if you don't add in finals, Franklin has played 10 less games during that time.

In fact, Franklin has easily averaged more than J Riewoldt since the OP.

We can all manipulate stats for our own purposes.

Its just a shame that Jack will still be kicking goals for his side, @ Punt Road, next season.

Where are Lance will be somewhere else

 

[King Of The Hille]

I'm not sure why Jack is brought down so much by opposition fans. He's clearly the best full forward in the game from a goal kicking point of view, I don't think theres any arguing that.

All round package, possibly not. But he's easilly in the top 3, top 2 full package.

 

[Ferdinand Lewis]

I'm not sure why Jack is brought down so much by opposition fans. He's clearly the best full forward in the game from a goal kicking point of view, I don't think theres any arguing that.

All round package, possibly not. But he's easilly in the top 3, top 2 full package.

14th in the AFL this season -

Season High Goal Assists​

​

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/2013s.html

 

[Rack Watts]

Sure will be, and the biggest cockjaw!
Josh Kennedy of WCE to contend.

^ two leading goal kickers.
*bows*

 

[Underarm]

14th in the AFL this season -

Season High Goal Assists​

​

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/2013s.html

equal tenth*, and those above him on the Coleman medal race aren't anywhere near it. Roughy is equal.

 

[Ferdinand Lewis]

equal tenth*, and those above him on the Coleman medal race aren't anywhere near it. Roughy is equal.

thanks for the clarification

Jack, IMO, is a very well rounded player

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I'm not sure why Jack is brought down so much by opposition fans. He's clearly the best full forward in the game from a goal kicking point of view, I don't think theres any arguing that.

There is some arguing that...Franklin has more total goals and more goals per game since the OP was written. In fact, Franklin has averaged more goals every season of their careers (Riewoldt may change that this year but I wouldn't bet on it). Unless you mean that Franklin is not a full forward?

Anyway, I think Jack Riewoldt is being unfairly maligned in this thread by most. He is clearly a brilliant full forward and does his job of taking the best defender and still kicking more goals than nearly every other forward in the league (whilst giving plenty off). A fair argument can be made that he is the 2nd best forward since the OP was written as most other contenders have had a quiet (or injured) season thrown in. eg. Cloke 2012, Riewoldt 2012, Roughead 2011, Hawkins 2010, Kennedy 2012, etc whilst JR just keeps taking marks and kicking goals consistently.

 

[lmach]

Off you go, looks like you have a heap of stats to look up.

I'll stick to goals and assists and tackles and score involvements

But Kennedy is leading Riewoldt in goals, tackles and score involvements while playing one less game.

 

[rado]

You need to read the rest of the thread. I rate Jack. I already said I was playing Devil's Advocate, and I don't think there's anything ridiculous about an argument being made for Darling being a top 5 forward... If he played for a Victorian club he'd be being talked up as a top 5 forward by supporters of whichever club he played for, without a doubt. In the same way that if Wingard played for Collingwood (for example) people would consider him a lock for AA, instead of an outside chance. Out of interest, how many of Darling's 50 or so games have you seen?

What I have read are your posts in this thread, and saying that you could argue that on current form darling is better than Riewoldt is just wrong. He is not in the top 5 key forwards and is unable to match jacks output despite getting the 2nd or 3rd defender each week while jack is double or triple teamed. Darling a few years down the track could maybe get to Riewoldts level, but you are delusional if you would take his current output over the 2 time Coleman medalist.
Out of his 60 games I believe I would have seen about 45-50 of them. Out of interest, how many of jacks 125 games and 302 goals have you seen?

 

[Black Diamond]

Have posted a few times that Riewoldt's our most important player. Keeping both of them is a non-negotiable, but Riewoldt's the rarer commodity. He makes the entire forward line tick, dare I say it, in a way that Richo couldn't. Take JR out and it's bog ordinary.

I've posted in the past that I think JR is your best. I struggle with the Cotchin hype at times (I accept I'm in the minority, just one of those things though) and to me keeping Riewoldt is more critical long term.

 

[lmach]

What I have read are your posts in this thread, and saying that you could argue that on current form darling is better than Riewoldt is just wrong. He is not in the top 5 key forwards and is unable to match jacks output despite getting the 2nd or 3rd defender each week while jack is double or triple teamed. Darling a few years down the track could maybe get to Riewoldts level, but you are delusional if you would take his current output over the 2 time Coleman medalist.
Out of his 60 games I believe I would have seen about 45-50 of them. Out of interest, how many of jacks 125 games and 302 goals have you seen?

Kicked over 50 goals last year in his second season taking the number one key defender each week in the absence of Kennedy and LeCras.

 

[King Of The Hille]

I've posted in the past that I think JR is your best. I struggle with the Cotchin hype at times (I accept I'm in the minority, just one of those things though) and to me keeping Riewoldt is more critical long term.

Agree with this, Richmond could cope with the loss of Cotchin. They couldn't with the loss of Riewoldt. It'd set them back years.

 

[rado]

Kicked over 50 goals last year in his second season taking the number one key defender each week in the absence of Kennedy and LeCras.

Darling is a gun. Love watching him play and is a freak for a young player, but the poster I was replying to was arguing that darling is currently better than a 2 time coleman medalist in the prime of his career.

 

[Ferdinand Lewis]

A question for Richmond supporters: If you could only keep one of Riewoldt or Cotchin, who would you pick?

#1 Deledio

 

[Madd Dawg Morg]

#1 Deledio

Comfortably our most important player. Shut Lids down and you're half way towards beating Richmond.

 

[theflea]

There is some arguing that...Franklin has more total goals and more goals per game since the OP was written. In fact, Franklin has averaged more goals every season of their careers (Riewoldt may change that this year but I wouldn't bet on it). Unless you mean that Franklin is not a full forward?

Anyway, I think Jack Riewoldt is being unfairly maligned in this thread by most. He is clearly a brilliant full forward and does his job of taking the best defender and still kicking more goals than nearly every other forward in the league (whilst giving plenty off). A fair argument can be made that he is the 2nd best forward since the OP was written as most other contenders have had a quiet (or injured) season thrown in. eg. Cloke 2012, Riewoldt 2012, Roughead 2011, Hawkins 2010, Kennedy 2012, etc whilst JR just keeps taking marks and kicking goals consistently.

Franklin isn't a full forward, he's a tall HFF'er imo.

 

[Madd Dawg Morg]

Franklin isn't a full forward, he's a tall HFF'er imo.

Absolutely. Doesn't judge the flight of the ball well enough to be a classic FF. Needs the space/ broken play that the half forward line provides to be most effective.

 

[master bate]

Richmond (and other supporters) might disagree with me and that's fine but I have a problem with Riewoldt in that I think he's just not big enough, strong enough and may even lack the work rate to be a true CHF and therefore in these days of minimal talls on the ground he becomes some what of a side show and not an important structural player.

In an ideal world I think you have a ruck forward who is mobile and capable of playing from the goal square and also from the forward pocket or up the ground. The tigers have that in Vickery who is an oustanding talent but also has a lot of the Kosi's about him. And by that I mean the early-mid career Kosi who could be sublime one minute and look like the next superstar then go missing for a month.

You then have a CHF like a Cloke, Hawkins, N. Riewoldt who comes up to meet the ball as a target for midfielders and then also gets back into the 50 to mark and goal.

Then you have a third marking tall who can be anyone from a Lindsay Thomas to a Stevie J to Eddie Betts to Jack Gunston. That's where I see Riewoldt ideally suited.

So if I was Richmond I'd still be on the look out for the true power CHF to free Riewoldt up to be the 3rd tall from the goal square who plays as a FF and kicks bags. At the moment they are going with the 3 prong attack of Edwards, Vickery and Riewoldt which is certainly fine on a talent level but I have my concerns about the structure. If you are pressed back at half back late in a final and you have to get a goal you need someone at CHF to come provide a target and I don't see any of those forwards doing that against a gun CHB and a ruckman dropping back. Sure if someone then marks the ball from there I'd love to have Riewoldt inside 50 as he's probably the best in the league at clever leading and strong marks on the lead or launching at packs and same for Vickery who will have a height/athleticism gap on most defenders but the problem might be getting it in.

 

[Ferdinand Lewis]

Kosi looked like Wayne Carey for a little bit of time.

i think it was before the gia hit.

 

[Ferdinand Lewis]

I would assume the line of thinkiing is:

CHF - Jack
FF/2nd ruck - Vickery
3rd forward - Griffiths or Elton or McBean

two key forwards 200cm+ and Jack Reiwoldt. Will be a challange to line up on for other sides.

The McGaune / AEdwards experiment is sadly Hardwick hellbent on short term gain this season.

 

[King Of The Hille]

Griffiths hasn't shown very much to command a spot in the side. There's a lot of pressure being placed on this young McBean.

I don't think Vickery helps Riewoldt as he should. Ty in my opinion has been a shambles at pick 8. So much potential, he should be doing a lot more to make Riewoldt an even better player.