Jack will come back & bite us

[Allefgib]

I agree STO, probably a very related set of factors.

I don't think anyone is overly analysing things Jen. What has happened here is a bit of Jack bashing then a few people saynig - hang on perhaps we need to learn from this and look at preventing it happening again rather than just pissing and moaning about Jack's particular situation.

The repetition is, IMO, due to 'move on move on' statemetns rather than focussing on what we all agree on

 

[bjn1960]

Does anyone actually disagree with the article Carl quoted where Sando said its the AFC's problem to resolve by making it a place that players don't want to leave?

Sure Jack showed a lack of class and was very 'flighty', obviously had issues weighing up what he wanted to do. His end decisions reflect poorly on him.

But that's a 19yo kid who is now outside our 'circle of concern'.

What is inside our circle of concern, and possibly our circle of influence, are the underlying issues of the AFC performance and environment/culture.

Again does anyone disagree with that?

That's where our thoughts should be focussed. Continuing to just lump it all on Gunston is not going to achieve anything other than perpetuating a view that everything is rosy down at the club. A very dangerous view even if it is true...

 

[jenny61_99]

I agree STO, probably a very related set of factors.

I don't think anyone is overly analysing things Jen. What has happened here is a bit of Jack bashing then a few people saynig - hang on perhaps we need to learn from this and look at preventing it happening again rather than just pissing and moaning about Jack's particular situation.

The repetition is, IMO, due to 'move on move on' statemetns rather than focussing on what we all agree on

I was just taking the piss I like the analysis - but sometimes we do take things too far I think.

STO raises a - dare I say it? - very salient point about the players we don't get. But I'm afraid unless you can make Adelaide a more attractive, metropolitan, and happening place, you just aren't going to have the big carrot to dangle in front of players faces. The Club would be just one part of a players consideration - lifestyle would be another. One we can do something about, the other we can't.

 

[PyroCrow]

But I'm afraid unless you can make Adelaide a more attractive, metropolitan, and happening place, you just aren't going to have the big carrot to dangle in front of players faces. The Club would be just one part of a players consideration - lifestyle would be another. One we can do something about, the other we can't.

This. Adelaide simply doesn't offer the same type of lifestyle that NSW, Vic and Qld can give of these young millionares. However, this negative becomes a positive when it comes to attracting mature-aged players. Adelaide is an attractive place to settle a young family, the team itself has the resources to compete with the bigger clubs of the league, and the club seems to have enough cap space to pay 1 or more big name players (though this space should probably be used to secure what we already have), these factors may allow the club to attract veteran players from other states when free agency enters the equation. Once this team becomes competitive again we may see verteran players join us for the chance to win a premiership.

 

[WALL-e]

Play to your strengths I guess. It's probably why you go country boy over city when it's very hard to split.

 

[SydCrow]

we have been having this debate ever since Brent Reiily was a boy

 

[Southerntakeover]

Its interesting that people blame the city, rather than anything at the club.

I have the perception that we, especially recently, have lost more 'must keep' players than the Power. Am I mistaken?

 

[FR0GGY]

Its interesting that people blame the city, rather than anything at the club.

I have the perception that we, especially recently, have lost more 'must keep' players than the Power. Am I mistaken?

Yes correct, Davis was showing he was a must keep not sure if Jack was yet.
Now our current three/four must keep interstaters atm are Sloane, Dangerfield and Tippett (Crouch in the coming years) compared to ports of Boak, Gray, Butcher and Trengove. They have all resigned hopefully ours will too, if not we have underlying problems.

 

[Tex200]

Hey Tom Lynch kicked 4 goals in an internal trial.

Surely the St Kilda board are in meltdown, questioning club culture....oh wait, no....actually it did not even rate a thread

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

This. Adelaide simply doesn't offer the same type of lifestyle that NSW, Vic and Qld can give of these young millionares.

That's crap.

Players are not coming back to Adelaide because they don't have to. Bryce Gibbs, Allen Didak or Steven Kernahan didn't come back to South Australia, because they didn't have to. End of story. It's nothing about our so called poor culture, diminishing nightlife or other crap like that - it's the opportunities they get in Melbourne.

There are anywhere between 550 and 600 full time AFL playing positions on the east coast. That's why they don't come back.

It's opportunistic. It's not Adelaide the city that's the problem, it's the opportunities AFL players get in other states. Adelaide United, 36ers, Red backs, Thunderbirds, Lightning and other sporting clubs outside the AFL bubble have had no problem attracting players, even start players who play on a national state chose to live in Adelaide (Anna Meers)

People who work in the mines who earn very good money have no problem moving and living in Adelaide. Why? because it's the only place their skills allow them to work.

If an AFL player didn't have so many options, they wouldn't be so picky or precious about where they play.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I have the perception that we, especially recently, have lost more 'must keep' players than the Power. Am I mistaken?

Maybe the stats will suggest that, so you're correct.

But I think the Power have moved a lot of players on that once were 'must keep players' and are over paying a few young players to prevent the loss of them.

Jackson Trengrove, John Butcher and Andrew Moore will be good players in a few years but I suspect they are getting more then their value and worth to stay in Adelaide.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I dont think we should blame the AFC for players leaving the club. From all reports I've read, Adelaide is a well run, well resourced football team with a solid membership base, in a footy-mad state. I cant imagine there is much else they can do. We cant magically turn Adelaide into a world-class city so we've got to make the best with what we've got.

You could always argue to recruit more SA-based players but even that is no guarantee and I would rather have the club looking for the best possible talent, not just the most convenient.

In short, the AFC will always have its Gunston's and Davis's. Just accept it and hope that the club is open to aggressive trading when its needed.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Maybe the stats will suggest that, so you're correct.

But I think the Power have moved a lot of players on that once were 'must keep players' and are over paying a few young players to prevent the loss of them.

Jackson Trengrove, John Butcher and Andrew Moore will be good players in a few years but I suspect they are getting more then their value and worth to stay in Adelaide.

Im not particularly convinced that we've had a tonne of players who are must keep recently either.

What are we doing wrong if we cant afford to keep up and coming stars from poachers, yet Port can?

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

What game are you refering to with Jericho/Geelong GF?


I remember Massie on Franklin - Was at that Elimination final! Devastating!

From memory it was the 2006 pre-season GF against Geelong. We narrowly lost the game. Craig left Jericho on the ground when it was cleare to all he was out of his depth.

As for the discussion. IMO there are numerous reasons why we have lost an unusually high number of players of the last few years:

-Training regime - If you were an AFC player and you were offered at least the same amount of money at another club you would seriously consider it. Why would you bust your gut at training when its abit easier down the road and you are going to get at least the same amount money. Its not as there has been any reward for the extra hard training, no Grand Finals, poor finals performances and watching your teammates break down left, right and centre.

-Poor comarderie - Have the AFC appeared a close playing group over the past 5-7 years. I don't think so. NC and co. curbed the type of actions that normally bring a playing group together - melees, aggression, big hits and especially flying the flag for your teammates. I know its sounds abit primitive and basic but these aren't rocket scientists we are dealing with here.

-Young players spending too long in the SANFL. I'm convinced that when they do come to play AFL footy some would still have abit of bitterness in their belly about how much time they had to sit in the AFL while the AFC first choice 22 was on a road to nowhere. Would also make cutting the ties a little easier when you have the perception that you were harshly dealt with.

-Type of player we recruit. We always hear that we recruit people of character. Maybe we need to drop our standards a little and recuit players who may not be as intelligent or well advised.

Anyway I don't by that its all about the go home factor as, and as others have said, it doesn't seem to have affected a lesser club like Port. I hope the old days are over. The way Sanderson has spoken and acted I have high hopes that they are.

 

[FR0GGY]

From memory it was the 2006 pre-season GF against Geelong. We narrowly lost the game. Craig left Jericho on the ground when it was clear to all he was out of his depth.

Is that the game he single handedly lost the game for us? Jericho is the only player i have ever seen who has single handedly lost a game for a team. Harsh but true.

 

[Mego Red]

Wow - Springy, there is some terrible rubbish in that post.

I look forward to reading about these sides who trained less than the Crows and had great success. And all these successful sides that pushed up unready juniors. And recruited morons.

Just because we didn't see ultimate success with Craig doesn't mean doing the opposite WOULD have brought us success. It could have been greater failure.

That being said, we agree (maybe) on one thing. The cold professionalism of the Crows actually made it easier for players to make the tough decision to leave. The paranoid "the world is out to get us" underdog status of Port would make them emotionally tough to leave.

I'm all for bringing some emotion into the team.

 

[Tas]

This. Adelaide simply doesn't offer the same type of lifestyle that NSW, Vic and Qld can give of these young millionares. However, this negative becomes a positive when it comes to attracting mature-aged players. Adelaide is an attractive place to settle a young family, the team itself has the resources to compete with the bigger clubs of the league, and the club seems to have enough cap space to pay 1 or more big name players (though this space should probably be used to secure what we already have), these factors may allow the club to attract veteran players from other states when free agency enters the equation. Once this team becomes competitive again we may see verteran players join us for the chance to win a premiership.

There is nothing wrong with Adelaide, I moved from Melbourne to a 10k town in the middle of nowhere to work for a few years, the problem is the age we expect the kids to uproot their lives. Most are just not prepared for it and it can be a difficult adjustment.

I think it is more just bad timing, the Crows descended down the ladder at a time when GC and GWS could throw the cheque book around. I think if the Crows had a young side and were up on the rise you probably wouldn't have bled the players.

Player turnover, coach shown the door, it creates an environment of uncertainty and some can be vulnerable in that environment to offers from outside the club and Hawthorn is notorious for aggressively targeting players out of contract. I don't think Sando needs to do anything other than show that the Crows have good young talent and are on the right path.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

There is nothing wrong with analysing the reasons why we have lost some key players but there is a difference between analysing the situation and wild speculation based on the prejudices we hold.

It was suggested that one reason that Gunston may have left was a lack of opportunities. I provided the stats to show that he had more opportunities than half the players rated above him in the 2009 draft and more than any tall player (over 190 cm) in the first two rounds of the 2009 draft . The average games played by players below Gunston in the draft(excluding rookie elevations) is less than half the games Jack played and many of the players have yet to debut.

What other injustices did Jack face? He played in a premiership with the most professional club in the SANFL and developed from a young skinny kid into an exciting AFL prospect.

I expressed concern when Jack was drafted, the son of a multi-millionaire and Essendon Board member. Money was never an issue in Jack's career path. He attended an exclusive all boys college for the would be rich and famous. Sending poor Jack to the doggies to complete his education must have been a great shock to both him and his family. Whilst many expected that he might ask to be traded to Essendon, was Hawthorn (the Eastern Suburbs blue blood club) such a surprise?

He played us like a Stradavarius, indicating he was poised to sign a new contract right up to the time that he jumped on the plane to Melbourne.

The whole episode says a lot more about the Gunston culture than the Crow's culture IMHO.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Has a club ever lost two 10 year, first 22 talls in the one year? Neither of them of the club's choosing?

 

[jenny61_99]

Two 10 year?

 

[jenny61_99]

And regardless of what that actually means, it can be looked at two ways:

not many precedents for having two first year clubs starting up within a year of each other thereby creating the monster of the severely compromised drafts and massive $$$ to be thrown at experience and potential;

and

We must have done something right if everyone wanted our boys.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Come on Jenny, hes clearly using the '10 year player' term that gets thrown around frequently whenever people hype a youngster.

 

[jenny61_99]

What, that he's got the "potential" to be a 10 year player?

 

[Southerntakeover]

and

We must have done something right if everyone wanted our boys.

I know this is tongue in cheek, but boy do I find it infuriating.

Gunston in particular though was set out to be one heck of a draft steal. For all the good that does us.

 

[Southerntakeover]

What, that he's got the "potential" to be a 10 year player?

Its a measure of a football career. A 10 year player is genuinely a very good one for your club, they shouldnt last that long if they arent.

I dont think theres anything wrong with suggesting that Davis and Gunston were both seen as 10 year players. Injury to Davis being the biggest concern there.