Jack will come back & bite us

[jenny61_99]

I think AFL is moving away from the concept of a one team career player. Rugby League players seem to switch mid-season (announce that they are leaving) as a matter of course these days. I'm thinking we are heading in the same direction.

 

[jenny61_99]

Rhys Palmer is another example of a player that there is every indication that he signed before the 2011 season. After a stellar first year in 2008 he did his knee in 2009. As expected he was a bit scratchy when he returned in the second half of 2010. It was expected that 2011 would be a breakout year but he had a shocker.

So, either

a) GWS recruiters are clueless

b) Palmer lost interest in the game last year or

c) GWS signed him at the end of 2010 and are now thinking it wasn't such a great idea

Here's a cynical thought:

Is it a co-incidence that the players that went off to GC/GWS were injured for much of the season? Bock was out for most of his last year with us, as was Davis. Now either it is a co-incidence, or they lost interest in playing for us OR the Club got hold of the fact they were leaving and didn't play them? Hows that for a theory!

 

[cmndstab]

Pretty theory, not really on the money though. Davis was legitimately injured, as was Bock. The only thing that did happen was once we found out he was leaving, we cut Davis' medical payments

 

[ftmch]

Fatoomsch, you can't blame players for considering their future opportunities. Most of us at his age would almost certainly do the same thing if offered a substantial increase in pay and the captaincy. Let's face it, he wasn't going to get those dollars in the job he had (at Adelaide) and he was down a few rungs on the leadership ladder (behind VB, Thompson, Rutten, Sloane and Danger). I know I've done it too, but I don't think it's fair to call him greedy. He really is just setting himself up for his future. It's what most of us do in our lives (change jobs for better $$$ or opportunities), why should footy players be any different?

See that's where you're wrong Jenny. I can, and do blame him!

It's pointless contrasting his situation with the average punter on the street like you or I, becauase frankly, his situation is nothing like yours or mine (im assuming you and I similar).

He made his decision from an already privelged position. It's a great foundation from which to make a decision to provide some return on investment to a club which chose you in good faith as a high draft pick, and invested heavily in your development and your rehabilitation.

Hi decision took him from a position of wealth to stupid wealth. In other words, greed.

All of this in my eyes is fine if you've paid your dues and given the club something back (see N Bock), however when you've yet to provide a return on investment to a club that has invested heavily into you, your decision to jump ship to further enhance your already wealthy status is nothing but greed.

 

[bjn1960]

While one or two maybe from left field, all 4 points are relevant.

-Training - No doubt we are one of the hardest training outfits in the competition. Remember in the lead up to the 2006 finals, senior players calling for an easing of the training load. Remember NC wanting to "push the limits" in the 2010 pre-season?? If you were a young player would you want to be flogged on the training track every week when the rewatd is zero.

-No denying that during the NC area, we were not the type of team to fly the flag or get involved in melees. Even the most pro-AFC supporter on this board wouldn't deny this. As I said, these are the types of actions that unite a playing group.

-Too long in the SANFL- No denying this one.

-Type of player we recruit. If all the above are not relevant, then it has to be the type of person we recruit. Maybe instead of recruiting intelligent "people of character" we instead recruit the kid who is studying for a phd in cooking Big Macs and may not be aware of the opportunities available to him..

...it takes two hands, to handle a wopper.

 

[bjn1960]

Very little love for Armstrong. I must be the only poster that thinks he will be decent. Armstrong wont be a superstar, but he will be a solid player for Sydney. Sydney has the ability to make a average player into a good player. I think Tony will do well.

In regards to Maric, i have no idea if he will improve Richmond. As fans we all know what to expect with Maric and what his strengths are. Jenkins is an equal replacement for him in my view.

Gunston and Davis are the obvious ones that will hurt us. Davis's shoulder and his durability, concerns me though.

Mad Fan...I think you may be steeling my thoughts?

 

[Slippery Pete]

Good stuff Wall-e

Question though - why are you calculating the p.a investment return on the 3.75M? He's not getting that amount up front.

 

[cmndstab]

He took a million out for a house which can be bought at any stage over the next five years - and then how much more money can you spend, assuming you have some level of responsible spending habits (if not, no amount of salary over five years will help )? It'd be pretty close to what WALL-e has claimed, anyway.


And, if he manages to live on under the $100k+/year of interest, that figure will only rise.

 

[bjn1960]

I doubt he will be in a position to never work again, but the first million is always the hardest to make.

...from personal experience, obviously?

 

[jenny61_99]

See that's where you're wrong Jenny. I can, and do blame him!

It's pointless contrasting his situation with the average punter on the street like you or I, becauase frankly, his situation is nothing like yours or mine (im assuming you and I similar).

He made his decision from an already privelged position. It's a great foundation from which to make a decision to provide some return on investment to a club which chose you in good faith as a high draft pick, and invested heavily in your development and your rehabilitation.

Hi decision took him from a position of wealth to stupid wealth. In other words, greed.

All of this in my eyes is fine if you've paid your dues and given the club something back (see N Bock), however when you've yet to provide a return on investment to a club that has invested heavily into you, your decision to jump ship to further enhance your already wealthy status is nothing but greed.

It's all relative Fatoomsch. By your standards, a bloke who's on $50,000 a year and has been trained and developed by one company, couldn't possibly turn down a $150,000 offer and job promotion by a rival company just because he felt he owed the first company something. If that was the case, nobody would EVER change jobs.

The fact that anyone can earn that sort of money ($3.75 million) is outrageous, but is a completely different topic for debate.

 

[bjn1960]

See that's where you're wrong Jenny. I can, and do blame him!

It's pointless contrasting his situation with the average punter on the street like you or I, becauase frankly, his situation is nothing like yours or mine (im assuming you and I similar).

.

I thought Jenny was of the feminine variety; therefore, fatoomsch, does that mean you're a bit girly?

 

[ftmch]

I thought Jenny was of the feminine variety; therefore, fatoomsch, does that mean you're a bit girly?

Depends who you ask.

I can make a mean sponge cake though.

 

[jenny61_99]

And I can put together a flat pack in no time!

 

[ftmch]

It's all relative Fatoomsch. A bloke who's on $50,000 a year and has been trained and developed by one company, couldn't possibly turn down a $150,000 offer and job promotion by a rival company just because he felt he owed the first company something. If that was the case, nobody would EVER change jobs.

The fact that anyone can earn that sort of money is outrageous, but is a completely different topic for debate.

But this is my point Jenny. The difference between someone moving from a low to middle income into a 'high income' is not necessarily one based out of greed.

Moving from very high income to stupidly high income is. Hence my point that he had an excellent platform frmo which to make the decision to stay.

 

[weneverland]

Can you do some sums and give us a quick overview? Let's just say he stops playing after this contract is up. What kind of position would he be in......

If you total his contract , it's likely a 3.75M deal.

Good stuff Wall-e

Question though - why are you calculating the p.a investment return on the 3.75M? He's not getting that amount up front.

Would this be the sum Davi$ may have accumulated at the end of his contract and this calculates his returns after his football carreer is over?

 

[bjn1960]

Depends who you ask.

I can make a mean sponge cake though.

...as long as it's not a warm apple pie?

 

[jenny61_99]

But this is my point Jenny. The difference between someone moving from a low to middle income into a 'high income' is not necessarily one based out of greed.

Moving from very high income to stupidly high income is. Hence my point that he had an excellent platform frmo which to make the decision to stay.

Rubbish. If you are tripling your income it is all greed based and it's all relative to your personal circumstance. Demanding that someone on a higher income have a higher moral code than someone on a lower income is just ridiculous.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Rhys Palmer is another example of a player that there is every indication that he signed before the 2011 season. After a stellar first year in 2008 he did his knee in 2009. As expected he was a bit scratchy when he returned in the second half of 2010. It was expected that 2011 would be a breakout year but he had a shocker.

So, either

a) GWS recruiters are clueless

b) Palmer lost interest in the game last year or

c) GWS signed him at the end of 2010 and are now thinking it wasn't such a great idea

d) no one else wanted to come and Fremantle didn't really care if they lost him

 

[WALL-e]

Good stuff Wall-e

Question though - why are you calculating the p.a investment return on the 3.75M? He's not getting that amount up front.

The pa return on his total contract amount was just an example. The one below is more accurate and for anything more accurate than that I charge

You could do a rolling returns analysis on the first 5 years of the deal pretty easy, if you did you'd find his returns would be greater than my second example showed.

He took a million out for a house which can be bought at any stage over the next five years - and then how much more money can you spend, assuming you have some level of responsible spending habits (if not, no amount of salary over five years will help )? It'd be pretty close to what WALL-e has claimed, anyway.


And, if he manages to live on under the $100k+/year of interest, that figure will only rise.

You could have a very tidy lifestyle on $120K after tax. But as Macca23 mentioned, the bugger will likely just open a law firm, or buy into an existing one, do enough additional study to justify an already rediculously high wage, then work reduced hours, have a good salary and the business income and capital to set you and your kids up.

Would this be the sum Davi$ may have accumulated at the end of his contract and this calculates his returns after his football carreer is over?

It's just his GWS contract. If he continues playing after that those 5 years, it will only increase.

 

[ftmch]

Rubbish. If you are tripling your income it is all greed based and it's all relative to your personal circumstance. Demanding that someone on a higher income have a higher moral code than someone on a lower income is just ridiculous.

So we're agreed then - Phil was greedy.

And Im not suggesting that he have a higher moral code - only that his ability to to uphold that moral code is much easier by virtue of the fact that it is being made from position of privilege and signficant wealth.

 

[macca23]

Actually, the decision for Davis was a very easy one for him IMO.

His own personal money tree, plus he comes from that neck of the woods. His family live in Canberra and Sydney.

Go home and roll around in money like Scrooge McDuck?? Be paid double/triple your value??

It pissed me off at the time, but when you reflect on it, it wasn't too hard a decision for him to make.

 

[WALL-e]

Actually, the decision for Davis was a very easy one for him IMO.

His own personal money tree, plus he comes from that neck of the woods. His family live in Canberra and Sydney.

Go home and roll around in money like Scrooge McDuck?? Be paid double/triple your value??

It pissed me off at the time, but when you reflect on it, it wasn't too hard a decision for him to make.

Still pisses me off, but as you said, it was an easy choice for him.

He wasn't a Crow fan, as well, so no real heart attached.

We would have offered MAX 400 for 3. - 1.2M. That's 2.55M shy of his GWS deal. When your shoulders can go at any minute, that extra 2 years and 2.55 is way too good to pass up.

I'm still royally pissed.

 

[TimmehJC"]

Gibson irks us North supporters because he was playing at Box Hill (Hawthorn's affiliate) and Hawks didn't want to have a bar of him. We rookied him, gave him a chance when nobody else did, elevated him and then left the way he did, didn't show a lot of character.

But, that is the way the cookie crumbles, better to have people of dubious character playing for someone else. Not sure it is ideal long-term to be filling your trench with the weak willed types.

Gibbo played for Port Melbourne, not Box Hill. Firrito played for Box Hill. But nice story.

On Jack, could be a gun, could be nothing. You lose players, sometimes you'll win, sometimes you'll lose. For Ben Allan we received David McEwan, who?exactly.

Would I be pissed if a player left Hawthorn in the same way? Of course I would. Not to different to what McPharlin did to Hawthorn in 2001, luckily we were trading with Freo, which is like taking candy from a baby.

 

[kaltmeibel]

Just makes it even easier to hate the mummy's boy.

Would have liked him to stay but he wanted to go and i have no problem with that.If he was unhappy here then we were never going to see his best.

If Porps plays the year then it will be Jack who????

 

[kaltmeibel]

Actually, the decision for Davis was a very easy one for him IMO.

His own personal money tree, plus he comes from that neck of the woods. His family live in Canberra and Sydney.

Go home and roll around in money like Scrooge McDuck?? Be paid double/triple your value??

It pissed me off at the time, but when you reflect on it, it wasn't too hard a decision for him to make.

The thing with Davis is with his shoulders he is a ticking time bomb.