Traded Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]

[Pinpoint Pass]

I believe that was the saints plan all along they have underestimated the backlash they have received from the media and mediation will also shame st Kilda
The big loser out of this if it goes to psd is Essendon st kildas chances of ever having the trust of any list managers but most of all jake Carlisle
The media will be savage on him and he isn't the most mentally strong person at the best of times. Then there will be rumours about jakes life that will be printed by pro Essendon journalists which could make this whole affair really unsavoury and could really hurt jake personally
So keyboard warriors like defacto can talk tough, bains can rip off another club but I wonder how much collateral damage will occur?
This could get really nasty where no one wins.
I hope cooler heads prevail next week I really do however the more I think about it the more I believe st Kilda have never intended on dealing fairly on this one.

I think you're pretty close to the mark.

I've been of the opinion all through the week, and nothing has changed, that Ameeteur Hour has wanted to stall this for as long as possible so that we don't have time to look at other options and as the deadline nears we are basically forced to accept unders.
With the recent interview of his manager saying that Carlisle and himself believe the offer is fair shows they are in with the Saints all the way.

It was a massive miscalculation by him though because he didn't count on another club getting involved, which just shows why he deserves his nickname of Ameeteur, and worst of all for him it was Hawthorn who as you know don't muck around.
The other issue this caused him is now we still had a week to get something sorted, rather than a day or two which was his original strategy.

As you say public opinion is completely against the Saints on this one as they are clearly trying to rip us off and the whole footy community, apart from most of the Saints supporters on here, know it.

As you say, there will be a lot of repercussions for the Saints in future after the way they have handled this and the BF heroes will blow it off but the clubs will have lost a lot of trust with the Saints after this and they will find the going much tougher next time around.

At the end of this if they haven't given us a fair offer, and we all know what's fair, then try to get him to go to Hawthorn and if he won't then delist him and move on. It won't be the first penalty we have received recently and the message it sends will possibly be worth the hit in the long run.

BTW if you ignore defacto the thread becomes so much more tolerable.

 

[cartel]

'Ameeteur' seems to be getting under your skin a fair bit.

There's a common thread regarding deals going to mediation over the past few years - I'll gve you a hint - it's not Ameet.

 

[bird_man]

Instead of whinging about "Ameetuer" why aren't you wondering why your club don't make a counter offer?

Essendon wanted pick 5
Saints asked for 2 second rounders
The ball is in Essendons court now, if you want pick 5 offer up Carlisle and 22 and then you'll see if Baines is really trying to low ball you.

As for GWS willing to trade pick 8, I'm wondering why Essendon haven't done that deal yet, seems like a cracking deal to me. If GWS were really keen to do that deal then I don't see why St Kilda wouldn't just ask for one of your 2nd round picks and do it themselves? I'm not sure Dodoro was being totally honest there.

 

[Bomberboy2013]

More tin foil hat stuff

The fair deal is there. Its that or nothing.

"Its that or nothing " ??????????? SORRY BOSS

Fair Deal you say MEH, I hope we stick to 5 and if the deals ain't done we walk him and Carlton snap him up would be hilarious !!!!!

 

[Sarcoidevo]

As you say public opinion is completely against the Saints on this one as they are clearly trying to rip us off and the whole footy community, apart from most of the Saints supporters on here, know it.

As you say, there will be a lot of repercussions for the Saints in future after the way they have handled this and the BF heroes will blow it off but the clubs will have lost a lot of trust with the Saints after this and they will find the going much tougher next time around.

Lost a lot of trust because because we are only trying to get the best deal for our club??

What about Essendon losing the trust of their players??

What about Essendon trying to cheat the system??

Lets not beat around the bush here Essendon might have been high rollers in the past but currently they are probably now the least respected club in the league

I would say the vast majority of opposition supporters are in awe of the calm measured approach of Baines and co and would hope that their clubs would act exactly the same in our situation - as you would if you were in our situation

Fact is Carlisle would probably be staying at Essendon if you had treated him and your squad in general with a little bit more god damn respect

As it has been reiterated many times in this thread Carlisle's contract is about to run out is desperate to get of Essendon and has chosen St Kilda as his destination club - he also has a drug ban hanging over his head and his form has been inconsistent and the Bombers only have themselves to blame if his value has been somewhat diluted

It's not St. Kilda's fault, it's not the Essendon supporters fault, it's not the AFL's fault - the problem you are currently facing lies squarely at the feet of the past leaders within your club and you are now paying a hefty price

So please dont go hanging shite on St Kilda because we wont give YOU the deal YOU want

You want other teams to play fairly with you then maybe you should have taken that into account back in 2012

Pick 5 will net you a very good player - hopefully for your sake someone you can build a good team around - in the meantime take your medicine and learn about respect and fairness if you want some back

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Instead of whinging about "Ameetuer" why aren't you wondering why your club don't make a counter offer?

Essendon wanted pick 5
Saints asked for 2 second rounders
The ball is in Essendons court now, if you want pick 5 offer up Carlisle and 22 and then you'll see if Baines is really trying to low ball you.

As for GWS willing to trade pick 8, I'm wondering why Essendon haven't done that deal yet, seems like a cracking deal to me. If GWS were really keen to do that deal then I don't see why St Kilda wouldn't just ask for one of your 2nd round picks and do it themselves? I'm not sure Dodoro was being totally honest there.

When has he ever been honest in this whole saga??

 

[Bomberboy2013]

Lost a lot of trust because because we are only trying to get the best deal for our club??

What about Essendon losing the trust of their players??

What about Essendon trying to cheat the system??

Lets not beat around the bush here Essendon might have been high rollers in the past but currently they are probably now the least respected club in the league

I would say the vast majority of opposition supporters are in awe of calm measured approach of Baines and co and would hope that their clubs would act exactly the same in our situation - as you would if you were in our situation

Fact is Carlisle would probably be staying at Essendon if you had treated him and your squad in general with a little bit more god damn respect

As it has reiterated many times in this thread Carlisle's contract is about to run out is desperate to get of Essendon and has chosen St Kilda as his destination club - he also has a drug ban hanging over his head and his form has been inconsistent and the Bombers only have themselves to blame if his value has been somewhat diluted

It's not our St. Kilda's fault, it's not the Essendon supporters fault, it's not the AFL's fault - the problem you are currently facing lies squarely at the feet of the past leaders within your club and you are now paying a hefty price

So please dont go hanging shite on St Kilda because we wont give YOU the deal YOU want

You want other teams to play fairly with you then maybe you should have taken that into account back in 2012

Pick 5 will net you a very good player - hopefully for your sake someone you can build a good team around - in the meantime take your medicine and learn about respect and fairness if you want some back

What a load of verbal diarrhea, what has all that got to do with a trade NOTHING, take it to the bay

 

[Sarcoidevo]

What a load of verbal diarrhea, what has all that got to do with a trade NOTHING, take it to the bay

It has everything to do with the trade if you start spouting off about fairness and respect

 

[Bomberboy2013]

It has everything to do with the trade if you start spouting off about fairness and respect

Were talking about a trade between 2 clubs, everything else is irrelevant and each clubs own business.

If you want to sprout the "Respect" card then Blake Johnston says hello.

 

[Suma Magic]

Very strong chance that pick 8 will be a live pick - meaning GWS won't want to trade it for lower picks.

Do the bidding sums and you'll see that they will want to keep it.

 

[Pinpoint Pass]

.

Yes i am well aware we are responsible for a lot of the issues at our club, which i have stated in this thread already, but Stkildas handling of this issue is either Amateurish, purely an orchestrated attempted rip off or both.

 

[ronnysnodgrass]

Very strong chance that pick 8 will be a live pick - meaning GWS won't want to trade it for lower picks.

Do the bidding sums and you'll see that they will want to keep it.

Don't they have two kids that could be bid on that high?

I was under the impression it was likely that if they had picks 7+8 (7 from treloar) they could get away with 7 being live and needing to use next available for academy.

Hence 23,24,25 would work better as it would leave them with one of them after academy bidding where as pick 8 would be absorbed.

Not clear on the details so no standing on facts here, but I thought that's why it could work.

 

[bltn]

Instead of whinging about "Ameetuer" why aren't you wondering why your club don't make a counter offer?

Essendon wanted pick 5
Saints asked for 2 second rounders
The ball is in Essendons court now, if you want pick 5 offer up Carlisle and 22 and then you'll see if Baines is really trying to low ball you.

As for GWS willing to trade pick 8, I'm wondering why Essendon haven't done that deal yet, seems like a cracking deal to me. If GWS were really keen to do that deal then I don't see why St Kilda wouldn't just ask for one of your 2nd round picks and do it themselves? I'm not sure Dodoro was being totally honest there.

I honestly don't know if GWS would do that deal, if it helps them at all, even if we informed them in secret discussions "we won't bid on any of the players you are looking at taking".
I think they need to finalise the Treloar deal first, before they figure out what can be done with Pick 8.
We could swap later Picks with them as well (59 & 63) which nets another 46pts for them.

Anyhow, if any team is getting Pick 8, it will be us as we have the right Picks.
Once GWS say "No, we are keeping Pick 8", then this is what I think will happen.....

Carlisle and Pick 25 {Melksham Pick}
for
Pick 5 and St.K's 3rd Rounder from next year

Or St.K 3rd Rounder from this year, but it seems you probably need as many Picks as possible this year to use on Freeman, Rice, and perhaps even keeping some early-ish presence in the draft in case a talented kid slips through.

I honestly think this is fair, particularly since Hawthorn have established a guide as to Jake's current value !

 

[rumply]

Lost a lot of trust because because we are only trying to get the best deal for our club??

What about Essendon losing the trust of their players??

What about Essendon trying to cheat the system??

Lets not beat around the bush here Essendon might have been high rollers in the past but currently they are probably now the least respected club in the league

I would say the vast majority of opposition supporters are in awe of the calm measured approach of Baines and co and would hope that their clubs would act exactly the same in our situation - as you would if you were in our situation

Fact is Carlisle would probably be staying at Essendon if you had treated him and your squad in general with a little bit more god damn respect

As it has been reiterated many times in this thread Carlisle's contract is about to run out is desperate to get of Essendon and has chosen St Kilda as his destination club - he also has a drug ban hanging over his head and his form has been inconsistent and the Bombers only have themselves to blame if his value has been somewhat diluted

It's not St. Kilda's fault, it's not the Essendon supporters fault, it's not the AFL's fault - the problem you are currently facing lies squarely at the feet of the past leaders within your club and you are now paying a hefty price

So please dont go hanging shite on St Kilda because we wont give YOU the deal YOU want

You want other teams to play fairly with you then maybe you should have taken that into account back in 2012

Pick 5 will net you a very good player - hopefully for your sake someone you can build a good team around - in the meantime take your medicine and learn about respect and fairness if you want some back

 

[bomberstomake8]

Go on, tell me.....don't fall asleep.....like to what?

Can you not read the previous post? Maybe try to so you get the context. Love your attention to detail

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Were talking about a trade between 2 clubs, everything else is irrelevant and each clubs own business.

The mindboggingly thing in all this and what the majority of Essendon supporters in this thread fail to comprehend is that if any other club esepcially Essendon were in our exact sitaution with the picks we have they/you would be playing exactly the same game or a similar one for that matter - its only because you are likely be on the losing end that you are currently crying foul

And FWIW i'm am not one who fails to understand the concept of swings and roundabouts - no doubt there will come a day when the shoe is on the other foot and we will be the ones who get a little jibbed - and when they day comes so be it - as for know I am happy that shoe is firmly on the correct foot and I cannot begrudge my club if we use it accordingly as you should not because you know and I know that you would use it in exactly the same way

 

[1892]

This is my trade suggestion which i think is pretty damn well rounded for all parties.

Hawthorns 15+18+55 to GWS
GWS 8+27 to Hawthorn
Hawthorn 8+27 to Saints
Saints 5 to Hawthorn GWS
Saints 8 to Essendon
Essendon Carlisle to Saints

The above deal can be done without Hawthorn and I reckon GWS is more likely to upgrade 8. There'd have to be something else involved though as it's easier for St Kilda to just swap 5 for Carlisle + 23 or 25.

In saying that I think the below as it keeps pick swaps below 200 points is more likely. While it would be better for Essendon if the deal was simply pick 5 for Carlisle + 23 or 25, St Kilda have to come to the party.

GWS
In: 5
Out: 8 + 48

St Kilda
In: Carlisle + 25 + 48
Out: 5

Essendon
In: 8
Out: Carlisle + 25

 

[Defacto]

I forgot saints want to use a 6 round pick, that seems fair value for Carlilse

Tell me which part is uneven?

Reviewed it again. If we keep our 2nd and get 8 for 5 i have no problem with it

 

[bomberstomake8]

Instead of whinging about "Ameetuer" why aren't you wondering why your club don't make a counter offer?

Essendon wanted pick 5
Saints asked for 2 second rounders
The ball is in Essendons court now, if you want pick 5 offer up Carlisle and 22 and then you'll see if Baines is really trying to low ball you.

As for GWS willing to trade pick 8, I'm wondering why Essendon haven't done that deal yet, seems like a cracking deal to me. If GWS were really keen to do that deal then I don't see why St Kilda wouldn't just ask for one of your 2nd round picks and do it themselves? I'm not sure Dodoro was being totally honest there.

It's not necessarily essendons responsibility to come up with a counter offer. They rejected your current offer, they don't have to put anything else out there.
Will be interesting to see the next play

 

[bird_man]

Carlisle and Pick 25 {Melksham Pick}
for
Pick 5 and St.K's 3rd Rounder from next year

Or St.K 3rd Rounder from this year, but it seems you probably need as many Picks as possible this year to use on Freeman, Rice, and perhaps even keeping some early-ish presence in the draft in case a talented kid slips through.

I honestly think this is fair, particularly since Hawthorn have established a guide as to Jake's current value !

Can't see that happening, if St Kilda give you pick 5, they wont be giving you anything else to go with it. If the offer ends up being pick 5 for Carlisle and your 2nd, Dodoro would be stupid to not take that deal and instead ask for more.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

It was a good try but unfortunately Defoe is not hairy enough to play Dodoro

 

[bird_man]

It's not necessarily essendons responsibility to come up with a counter offer. They rejected your current offer, they don't have to put anything else out there.
Will be interesting to see the next play

Why? Don't they want pick 5?

 

[Pinpoint Pass]

The mindboggingly thing in all this and what the majority of Essendon supporters in this thread fail to comprehend is that if any other club esepcially Essendon were in our exact sitaution with the picks we have they/you would be playing exactly the same game or a similar one for that matter - its only because you are likely be on the losing end that you are currently crying foul

Actually i doubt there would be another experienced List manager in the game that would have set their sights on a player that they clearly want and then would use such poor tactics which then let another club enter the fray.

As an example look at Hawthorn. Saw the opening and put in an offer they knew we would accept. Professional as opposed to Ameeteur Hour whos tactics is to stall for as long as possible so they can rip us off.

 

[doona]

Don't they have two kids that could be bid on that high?

I was under the impression it was likely that if they had picks 7+8 (7 from treloar) they could get away with 7 being live and needing to use next available for academy.

Hence 23,24,25 would work better as it would leave them with one of them after academy bidding where as pick 8 would be absorbed.

Not clear on the details so no standing on facts here, but I thought that's why it could work.

You have to use your next available pick. Hopper will be bid on before 7, so they will have to use 7 for him (after the discount, the will have points left over).

Pick 8 would then be live.

GWS have no point in trading 8.

 

[Theo X]

Saints are being completely unreasonable, they're taking the piss with their offers. Get mediators involved.