Traded Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]

[TheJackal]

Im a bit confused, can someone tell me what Bains has done wrong this year?

After all, we are half way through the trade period and we had been working behind the scenes to try to get picks to be able to make decent offers. I have little doubt that we discussed potential trades but we can't make an official offer with a pick we don't yet have.

Blame the Dixon or Treloar trades for not going through perhaps but don't blame Bains half way through a trade period accusing him of being being a dodgy dealer. St Kilda has complete exactly the same number of trades that Collingwood have at this stage and Collingwood have Treloar, Freeman, Aish and probably Howe to deal with.

Please, feel free to explain what exactly he has done wrong (apart from not paid overs for Carlisle with pick 5 only) to enlighten us all...

 

[Rich01]

If the saints feel they can only get Carlisle for pick 5 alone, they should let him walk to the National Draft. Bris and Carl will overlook him. Gold Coast at 3 probably as well. Essendon will at 4, Saints pick him up at 5. Means the bombers don't get 5 and the saints still get Carlisle for 5, moving everyone up the draft order. Wouldn't be surprised if the saints are using this rationale to extract picks back from the bombers in exchange for 5.

 

[eth-dog]

Im a bit confused, can someone tell me what Bains has done wrong this year?

After all, we are half way through the trade period and we had been working behind the scenes to try to get picks to be able to make decent offers. I have little doubt that we discussed potential trades but we can't make an official offer with a pick we don't yet have.

Blame the Dixon or Treloar trades for not going through perhaps but don't blame Bains half way through a trade period accusing him of being being a dodgy dealer. St Kilda has complete exactly the same number of trades that Collingwood have at this stage and Collingwood have Treloar, Freeman, Aish and probably Howe to deal with.

Please, feel free to explain what exactly he has done wrong (apart from not paid overs for Carlisle with pick 5 only) to enlighten us all...

He's been terrible. He hasn't been open to pick 5 for the first 4 days of the week. He offered pick 24 and a ruckman we don't need.

He didn't need to go straight swap but he hadn't entertained pick 5 until he demanded TWO picks in the 20's in return, which is ridiculous. He talked about getting a first round pick that wasn't pick 5 to bring in potentially from Adelaide and yet there's been absolutely 0 news on that front since.

This post is amusing to say the least.

 

[rumply]

Actually i doubt there would be another experienced List manager in the game that would have set their sights on a player that they clearly want and then would use such poor tactics which then let another club enter the fray.

As an example look at Hawthorn. Saw the opening and put in an offer they knew we would accept. Professional as opposed to Ameeteur Hour whos tactics is to stall for as long as possible so they can rip us off.

That's what many Saints fans seem unable to comprehend - their club dropped the ball horribly & followed it up with a kick for goal that landed out of bounds on a seat out on the wing. If they are actually serious about this deal, they need to show it sooner rather than later.

 

[CHBench]

No they are not
Ameetuer was all over the press once hawks interest became clear and suddenly provided a ridiculous offer

What do you call 4 interviews with 4 radio stations inside an hour then?

 

[Sir Skid]

Anyway, there is an offer on the table.
Dodo can accept it or refuse it.

Best case you end up with pick 5 but have to give something back. If it were up to me I'd do Carlisle and 23 for 5 but thankfully I am an observer like the rest on here.

At worst......

 

[the dog's kennel]

If that is the case the Saints keep 5 and Essendon get nothing (oh yeah he didn't pick the Dogs has this fired you up?). Personally would rather a trade done - what is forgotten is WHO is leaking the content of proposed deals to the media? It is not St Kilda

Yup, that is right. The Saints would keep Pick 5 and the Dons would get nothing. That's what happens when trades don't happen!

I'm not some Dons fan jonesing for Essendon to get Pick 5. Personally, I have no time for Essendon and especially Dodoro. I'm just saying - as a neutral - that Pick 5 going one way and a Pick in the 20s going the other way for Carlisle is a fair trade.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Why would you care?

I don't care.

Why would someone commenting on a post necessarily care? I just like talking footy and know a lot about the Carlisle situation cause there was a while that the Dogs were going after him.

I'm certainly not bitter about us missing out. If you look at my posting history you will see I was of the opinion that he was worth our Pick 11 but I had serious misgivings about us trading for him. I'd far prefer for us to get ourselves a KPD with less character issues. I imagine you guys have the same concerns, hence the lowballing.

Doesn't change what is a fair trade value though.

 

[stfan]

Yup, that is right. The Saints would keep Pick 5 and the Dons would get nothing. That's what happens when trades don't happen!

I'm not some Dons fan jonesing for Essendon to get Pick 5. Personally, I have no time for Essendon and especially Dodoro. I'm just saying - as a neutral - that Pick 5 going one way and a Pick in the 20s going the other way for Carlisle is a fair trade.

Exactly no one but Dodo and some (but not all) EFC fans rate Carlisle as an EFC fan.

And if the Saints did then Carlisle could nominate for the main draft and the Saints take him at 5.

Or the PSD Draft and the Saints get him again. In both cases EFC gets NOTHING.

Deal will get done if EFC wants something back, but not for pick 5.

 

[stfan]

Has been offered 5 years @750k. Good money.

Why do people keep posting this rubbish?? Yes the EFC dominated media wrote it early on, but it is now known that it is 4 years and for way less.

 

[bird_man]

Everyone knows what would have happened if we offered pick 5 for Carlisle and 22. Dodoro would have said no and demanded pick 5. Now we have a starting point and he can compromise with us or he can sook it up in the media. His call.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Why do people keep posting this rubbish?? Yes the EFC dominated media wrote it early on, but it is now known that it is 4 years and for way less.

Not according to someone who has actually spoken to Jake in the last 3 days.

4yrs with a trigger for a 5th I would assume.

 

[bird_man]

Not according to someone who has actually spoken to Jake in the last 3 days.

Who was that Abasi?

 

[Josh McElgunn]

Happy for players like Carlisle to have an a opinion and nominate a club if they wish to leave their team post season, but it shouldn't really count for much. If Essendon get the best, or a better deal with another club, then they should be free to wheel and deal as they please. Asking to be traded is one request, picking your club is another. Should just be satisfied with getting a fresh start somewhere, anywhere, else. Bombers should straight deal Jake for pick 5 with St Kilda or walk away immediately and deal with Hawthorn, get our club back on track with as many first round pick kids as we can.

 

[Pinpoint Pass]

Exactly no one but Dodo and some (but not all) EFC fans rate Carlisle as an EFC fan.

And if the Saints did then Carlisle could nominate for the main draft and the Saints take him at 5.

Or the PSD Draft and the Saints get him again. In both cases EFC gets NOTHING.

Deal will get done if EFC wants something back, but not for pick 5.

So what you are saying is that rather than give Essendon 5 you will despite them and spend 5 on him anyway. Gee this will send a great message to future trade partners.

Why do you continue with this rubbish that "Or the PSD and the Saints get him" when there are 4 clubs that pick before you. You say it like it's a pre determined fact he gets through to you.

 

[the dog's kennel]

By the way a couple of other things.

- I think the Hawthorn offer is overs for Carlisle too.

- While the Saints reported offer of Pick 5 going one way for 2 picks in the 20s and Carlisle going the other way is laughable, it may well be simply a result of the Saints not having any faith in Dodoro in at all. Certainly he is notorious for his shoddy behaviour around trade time. And the rumors of Richmond's trade offer seemingly passed around by him suggests he hasn't changed his ways. It is entirely possible the Saints feel they need to be equally unreasonable as him to end up in a reasonable middle ground. If that is the case then a fair trade may have been done with a team like Geelong on the 1st day. So if this is all just posturing with a view towards ending up somewhere reasonable then fair enough - Dodoro reaps what he sews. And my apologies for any leaping to conclusions I have made. I guess we will see what the real situation is in the coming days.

 

[Dave]

High quality thread, would read again

 

[TheJackal]

He's been terrible. He hasn't been open to pick 5 for the first 4 days of the week. He offered pick 24 and a ruckman we don't need.

He didn't need to go straight swap but he hadn't entertained pick 5 until he demanded TWO picks in the 20's in return, which is ridiculous. He talked about getting a first round pick that wasn't pick 5 to bring in potentially from Adelaide and yet there's been absolutely 0 news on that front since.

This post is amusing to say the least.

The exercise is probably pointless but I will just reiterate, trade period goes for two weeks. It is as though Essendon have a time limit, it didnt need to get done within the first 24 hours.

Plenty of reports saying we were in touch with Adelaide to try to look at getting their picks (the only club who actually had their picks already) to arrange a trade - once again, GC don't have the Dixon pick and GWS don't have the Treloar pick. We were obviously planning on a different arrangement - just because we were looking at other options early on and not giving up pick 5 it doesn't mean we were hard to deal with.

Just on Dixon, do you see Suns going rogue and selling him to the next highest bidder at a club he didn't nominate due to a trade not being completed as yet? Thursday night was something else, especially when Dodoro mentioned he is only interested in a trade with Hawthorn now. Why the rush? From that point, I don't think we were interested in a fair trade.

If and when Hickey was offered up, it would've been before Leuey had been confirmed. You needed a ruckman in that case considering you have signed one this offseason. I would say Dodoro was being difficult because he was inflexible with his request. He tried to flex his 'big club' muscle and time will tell if that backfires horribly.

As for Bains, if the worst he has done was seemingly not trade away our highest commodity within the first 72 hours of trade week (whilst he tried to find more suitable win/win trades), well, I'm pretty comfortable in my original post and also in Bains himself.

 

[Defacto]

No he's actually going for the great culture down at Seaford, nothing to do with money.

Not even money could get a player to cockburn

 

[smokie]

Too much emphasis is placed on draft picks. Clubs like the hawks and cats get trades done as they are willing to pay over the precieved worth. Who knows how pick 5 will end up or a pick in the 20's but Carlise is a know quantity.

 

[Robroy22]

Happy for players like Carlisle to have an a opinion and nominate a club if they wish to leave their team post season, but it shouldn't really count for much. If Essendon get the best, or a better deal with another club, then they should be free to wheel and deal as they please. Asking to be traded is one request, picking your club is another. Should just be satisfied with getting a fresh start somewhere, anywhere, else. Bombers should straight deal Jake for pick 5 with St Kilda or walk away immediately and deal with Hawthorn, get our club back on track with as many first round pick kids as we can.

You would have seen this last year with Ryder surely? The system is overbalanced towards the players interests ATM. Just take what you can get mate. Once they nominate clubs now....all semblance of balanced trading is gone.

 

[TallyHawk]

Why are you laughing at that?

Because Defacto is a flog.

 

[doona]

Anyway, there is an offer on the table.
Dodo can accept it or refuse it.

The deal has been rejected. Am I missing something?

 

[Josh McElgunn]

You would have seen this last year with Ryder surely? The system is overbalanced towards the players interests ATM. Just take what you can get mate. Once they nominate clubs now....all semblance of balanced trading is gone.

In reality you're 100% right, but for those of us that still dream of the clubs being appropriately compensated for years of work put into developing these players (so others can benefit!), I hope we Essendon members get something worthwhile. The Ryder deal left a really sour taste

 

[Defacto]

Why are you laughing at that?

Because its totally unreasonable. Saints lose massively