James Hird Greatest Player Of The Modern Era

[LexyBaluca]

What are your toughts on this guys?

I'll back that statement 100% has there even been a team more reliant on a player, or a player who stands up and produces the goods almost on cue whenever he feels the need.

For those of us who play or have played football Hird is the ultimate player you would want along side you. He does the little things,eg taps spoils that mae the difference, takes the big grabs, kicks the important goals and lays match saving tackles

......I'm waiting for the punchline!

 

[ECHUCABOY]

punchline is your a f aggot watta ya mean?

 

[F/D]

Carey>>Ablett>>>Voss>Hird>Buckley

 

[incubi]

Hird is a very good player, but he is not in anyways the greatest of hte modern era.
Some of the stuff people cream themselves over which he does is just rediculous, for example he may get the ball in the centre and kick it high forward and jsut happen to land in a team mates hands and the commentator will talk about it for the next couple minutes how good his vision is.
Another example, been alot of talk about his snap from the pocket against the dogs, but was it any better than Grants, left foot snap on a tighter angle, after floating down from the backlines? no it wasn't.
He is an amzing player not in the some callibre as carey, lockett, matthews, dunstall and ablett.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Hird is a very good player, but he is not in anyways the greatest of hte modern era.
Some of the stuff people cream themselves over which he does is just rediculous, for example he may get the ball in the centre and kick it high forward and jsut happen to land in a team mates hands and the commentator will talk about it for the next couple minutes how good his vision is.
Another example, been alot of talk about his snap from the pocket against the dogs, but was it any better than Grants, left foot snap on a tighter angle, after floating down from the backlines? no it wasn't.
He is an amzing player not in the some callibre as carey, lockett, matthews, dunstall and ablett.

Sour sour grapes

 

[DonsRule]

Hird is a very good player, but he is not in anyways the greatest of hte modern era.
Some of the stuff people cream themselves over which he does is just rediculous, for example he may get the ball in the centre and kick it high forward and jsut happen to land in a team mates hands and the commentator will talk about it for the next couple minutes how good his vision is.
Another example, been alot of talk about his snap from the pocket against the dogs, but was it any better than Grants, left foot snap on a tighter angle, after floating down from the backlines? no it wasn't.
He is an amzing player not in the some callibre as carey, lockett, matthews, dunstall and ablett.

It's the consistance with which Hird does it that is great, time and time again, when someone needed to stand up after the doggies were challanging, Hird was the man, as predictable as that might have been, he always there when needed. And how about Hirds kick to Llyod in he dying seconds of the 2nd quarter, flanked by 3 Dogs players, Hird basicly pin pointed Llyod,, would have been in the corner of his vision, taking all 3 Bulldogs players out of the contest, that kick had to be perfect. he does these things, without looking like he even raises a sweat.

Like Lance said, though, ultimatly, and more importainly is the fact that these are players you love to watch, whether or not they play for your team.

Edited: Added a little bit to the post.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

It's the consistance with which Hird does it that is great, time and time again. And how about Hirds kick to Llyod in he dying seconds of the 2nd quarter, flanked by 3 Dogs players, Hird basicly pin pointed Llyod, taking all 3 Bulldogs players out of the contest, that kick had to be perfect. he does these things, without looking like he even raises a sweat.

Like Lance said, though, ultimatly, and more importainly is the fact that these are players you love to watch, whether or not they play for your team.

Damn straight!

 

[tusk]

Carey>>Ablett>>>Voss>Hird>Buckley

As good as Carey was, I think Ablett will be remembered as more of a ledgend then Carey!

Ablett > Carey

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Dont forget stevens schwass archer etc. Much better players than those who hird has played with which can be proven by the number of them who have coaching and media jobs.

rock crocker allison and laidley all coach. and schwass is in the media. You get my point

If your point is that Carey's teammates were all better than Watson, Thompson (handy coach), Long, Harvey, Fletcher, Lloyd, Mercuri, the Johnsons etc at their best - then no, I don't. I love North, but can't buy that Carey was surrounded by more talent at North than Hird has been for the past 13 years at Essendon.

btw I would hardly say that a job in coaching is proof of playing talent - and a media job certainly isn't!

I'd still argue that in the context of the club, coach and teammates around him, Carey shouldered a bigger load to create profound team achievements through his own genius as a player than pretty much anyone else I can think of. I guess you'll disagree. Isn't this fun?

 

[Longy413]

If your point is that Carey's teammates were all better than Watson, Thompson (handy coach), Long, Harvey, Fletcher, Lloyd, Mercuri, the Johnsons etc at their best - then no, I don't. I love North, but can't buy that Carey was surrounded by more talent at North than Hird has been for the past 13 years at Essendon.

btw I would hardly say that a job in coaching is proof of playing talent - and a media job certainly isn't!

I'd still argue that in the context of the club, coach and teammates around him, Carey shouldered a bigger load to create profound team achievements through his own genius as a player than pretty much anyone else I can think of. I guess you'll disagree. Isn't this fun?

I actually agree, but it's a variable that we can't use to compare the two players as Hird hasn't been given that opportunity.

We can use captaincy as a measure to rate Hird and Carey above Ablett, because Ablett simply didn't have the leadership skills to become a captain, unlike the other two. Leadership skills are a definate measure (not the be all and end all) of rating a player.

However, Hird may very well have had the same effect on the Roos that Carey did. Having better players around Hird is just circumstantial, he may very well have made these players better than what they would have been without him. That is something we can't compare and can only guess at.

Just on that. Hird debuted in 1992 (only a couple of games) and Watson wasn't at Essendon then. Watson came back in 1993, so only played about 20 games with Hird. Thompson was also well past his best by the time Hird because a dominant player.

 

[saggers]

another way to look at it would be if you were starting a team and you had first pick, who would you take?

carey for me, then voss, then hird

 

[Partridge]

Unimportant to the overall "debate". Did Ablett's genius ever get him a premiership medal?

Wrong argument. Premierships are what the teams play to win, but it doesn't lessen the ability of individual players. Consider Bob Skilton or Haydn Bunton, They weren't somehow inferior because they missed playing in premierships.

For the record, my top 5 that I've seen:

1. Gary Ablett (by a long way)
2. Wayne Carey
3. Tony Lockett
4. Greg Williams
5. Michael Voss

Part of my criteria is not just skill, consistency, importance to the team etc but a little thing called toughness. I'd have these guys as 5 of the toughest footballers I've ever seen as well as the best.

That however leaves out absolute stars of the 60s/70s such as Matthews, Baldock, Hart, Bartlett, Dempsey, Stewart, Farmer, Jesaulenko, Nicholls. And that's just off the top of my head.

Ian Chappell once said a sportsmen needs 3 ingredients to succeed at the top level - the skill to get there, the brains to work out the problems you encounter, and the heart to overcome setbacks. If you have those 3 abilities you'll be a star whether its 1935 or 2005. In other words don't be so quick to discard stars of previous years just because we didn't see them.

As for Hird, he was undoubtedly a great player once, but he's clearly in decline now. And the media fawn over him to a ridiculous degree. I watched him very closely against Geelong a few rounds back and he basically loafed around the back line refusing to chase or man up while his direct opponent in Milburn was killing them.

 

[Longy413]

Part of my criteria is not just skill, consistency, importance to the team etc but a little thing called toughness. I'd have these guys as 5 of the toughest footballers I've ever seen as well as the best.

There are different types of toughness. One being courage, James Hird doesn't have to many peers when it comes to courage.

Ian Chappell once said a sportsmen needs 3 ingredients to succeed at the top level - the skill to get there, the brains to work out the problems you encounter, and the heart to overcome setbacks.

James Hird has overcome more than most. Three times in his career he has been advised that he should stop playing, yet kept coming back for more.

In other words don't be so quick to discard stars of previous years just because we didn't see them.

It's very hard to rate players you haven't seen.

As for Hird, he was undoubtedly a great player once, but he's clearly in decline now. And the media fawn over him to a ridiculous degree. I watched him very closely against Geelong a few rounds back and he basically loafed around the back line refusing to chase or man up while his direct opponent in Milburn was killing them.

Of course he is in decline. He is 32.
But how was Carey's form at Adelaide, I'd say Hird is playing better football now than what Carey did in his last two seasons.
It seems you are judging Hird on one game, he has also put in performances this season that have been top shelf. The media fawn over a lot of players, Hird doesn't cop anymore than Bruce gave us with Carey, or Mike Sheehan does with Williams. These players are fawned over because they are great.

 

[LexyBaluca]

punchline is your a f aggot watta ya mean?

Oh Touche - snappy comeback that one.

What I think I might have been hinting at is that Hird is a perfectly serviceable player, but given his injuries and lack of time onfield, I would not rate him as highly as you do, mind you that doesn't appear hard as it sounds like you might belt-off in the small room to a picture of our friend James.

 

[superstooge1]

1 G Ablett
2 W Carey
3 J Hird
4 M Voss
5 Peter Matera

 

[Longy413]

but given his injuries and lack of time onfield,

Hird has played over 200 games of football, not many do that. He has played 30 fewer games than Ablett. By the end of his career Hird is every chance of passing that.

 

[alex1fun]

Why does everyone think that Voss is better than Hird?
Hird is playing well in a struggling team.
Voss struggling in a struggling team.
I've never really seen Voss do much at all.
Voss is very overrated.
One of the great players without doubt, but it stops there.
I admire him for what he's done. And I'm sure he's an amazing leader.

 

[camsmith]

G-train HAHAHHA dont make me laugh.


Ablett, Carey, Voss

 

[mudgeathon]

Simply put, no

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

Definetly the best player of the modern era, if not the game has ever seen.

 

[LexyBaluca]

Hird has played over 200 games of football, not many do that. He has played 30 fewer games than Ablett. By the end of his career Hird is every chance of passing that.

Fair call, and I'll concede that as far as natural talent for the game goes, few are better, but I still reckon the Careys, the Abletts (though he disgusts me) and Jakovich (Glenn, not the joke brother) overall performed better in their respective careers.

But of course, no bombers supporters will agree with that.

 

[Unity-28]

I remember back in the mid 90's Everyone would be saying one thing....."no Carey, No North" He was the most inspirational and most important player to any one club EVER. Ablett in that 89 GF almost (cant believe he didnt!) won the match on his own. Voss, is a Freak, and Dunstall and lockett, well, Goals win Games, and they kicked plenty. Then you have hird, Who seems to do everything that a good player does, but seemd to get so much more praise for it.

PS all these players except for plugger and ablett have had career
threatening injuries so hird isnt the only one that has been hurt bad.

CAREY-ABLETT-VOSS-LOCKETT-DUNSTALL

 

[Dave]

1987 marked the start of a national competition,

Ahem. 1982.

 

[Dave]

I just don't get Hird. The radio was creaming themselves on the weekend over 20 possessions and 3 goals (two in junk time).

Ten minutes into the last quarter is junk time now?

 

[manmountain]

G-train HAHAHHA dont make me laugh.

Just to clarify for all the really slow people here:

The G-Train was only mentioned when someone suggested that Carey urinates all over Hird. It is a reference to the alleged incident of Gehrig urinating in a bar on another patron. No-one is actually suggesting Gehrig is in this elite company.