Traded Jesse Hogan [traded with #65 to Fremantle for #6 and #23]

[Farm Boy]

Pick 18 plus something to Brisbane for Beams.

Picks 5 and 18 to Fremantle for Neale.

Picks 5 and 18 to Melbourne for Hogan.

That seems about right. If we are talking being fair and reasonable for all parties. That seems as good a deal as you're likely to see.

 

[Geoff]

Why do people keep putting links up to something behind a paywall?

 

[Clems Knee]

The article confirms that it's Hogan's call, and that Hogan is not being pushed out of the club.

Got anything else?

Read it again. This shows that Hogan did not approach the club and say he wanted to leave. Mahoney said it’s your choice, but we really want someone else.

 

[youmewe]

Why do people keep putting links up to something behind a paywall?

FREMANTLE feels particularly aggrieved about being painted as the new Essendon of trade week, a club keener to obfuscate and bluff than do common-sense deals.

The Bombers, of course, have since thrown off that reputation and are expected to do an orderly deal to secure their fourth key acquisition (Dylan Shiel) in the past two trade periods.

Yet across the competition the Dockers have been lashed for their hardline stance in keeping Lachie Neale and not throwing the kitchen sink at Jesse Hogan.

They maintain their decision to withdraw from discussions on Hogan is not a bluff, but a simple risk-assessment.

It was no mistake Peter Bell chose to refer to “due diligence” twice in his Friday statement.

They believe paying him up to a million a year on a long-term deal past five years is too much of a risk given the navicular issue and what they perceive to be off-field concerns.
Especially when they are being urged to hand over two first-round picks for Hogan, yet depart with a contracted midfield star (Neale) for a single top-10 pick to Brisbane.

On pure numbers and consistency you can make the case Neale is worth more than pick No.5 given his importance to Fremantle and his consistency over five years.

In that time he has missed just two games, racked up 540-plus touches every season, kicked 51 goals, and won two of the past three best-and-fairests (2016, 2018) and was runner-up last year.

He is a model citizen who causes no distractions, drives the club’s culture and causes Ross Lyon not a second’s missed sleep when his head touches the pillow.

So if you want to make the case that Neale is worth more than pick No.5 - like Adam Treloar and Shiel are judged to be - it is a compelling case.

The question we are about to find out is whether Freo would accept only pick No.5 for Neale, knowing they only had to give up that same pick to get Hogan, which would in turn get May from Gold Coast for the suddenly stacked Demons?
If not, the problem is what happens if Fremantle rebuff Hogan and keep Neale for a year.

Neale is a free agent who will walk from Fremantle - albeit for a compensation pick - and will spend the year stewing given he has already told Ross Lyon, Steve Rosich and Peter Bell he won’t play for them.

And even when Rory Lobb arrives from GWS, they still won’t have solved their forward issues.

Fremantle’s leading goalkicker for the season hasn’t kicked 50 goals for the past six years.

Cam McCarthy led the tally last year with 25, Michael Walters kicked a paltry 22 this year, with no player at Fremantle kicking 40 goals in the past three years.

Their attack in the past three years (2016-18) is ranked 17th in points for (71.8) and scores inside 50m, 18th in marks inside 50m and points from turnovers and 16th in points from stoppages.

For all of Hogan’s perceived faults he has kicked 40 goals in three of the past four years, and at just 23 has time to mature into a regular match-winner.

It seems clear Melbourne has pushed Hogan harder than Fremantle has chased him this year given their ideal of securing two first-rounders, one of them to be used on Steven May.

But while the downside of Fremantle passing on Hogan is that they will never again have the chance to recruit him, the Demons just play Hogan for a year, trade him as a non-free agent then get May as a free agent next year.

Fremantle will lose Neale in 12 months and still have done little to solve their forward woes.

Aware the same media who will invariably put Lyon under the pump next year will remind them every time they fail to kick a winning score that Hogan was theirs if only they wanted him.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...n/newsstory/5f3b595d05fb5b2c2a338bd584061cb4

 

[Clems Knee]

Heh. Quite the twist on what was said on Friday by Bell...

"As such, we have informed Melbourne and Jesse’s management that we will not be continuing further with the due diligence process."

Freo has backed out of the trade, not Melbourne.

It’s up to the buyer to satisfy the seller. A difficult concept for some to understand it seems.

You have only quoted some of the statement. The sentence before reads:

"While discussions were proceeding it became clear that what Melbourne would be seeking for a trade would not be possible for our club to meet."

Melbourne issued an ultimatum. Freo decided that Hogan was not worth the asking price. If the asking price was lower, Freo wouldn’t have walked away.

It’s up to the buyer and seller to satisfy each other. Clearly different to what you’ve said.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Pick 18 plus something to Brisbane for Beams.

Picks 5 and 18 to Fremantle for Neale.

Picks 5 and 18 to Melbourne for Hogan.

That would be perfect

 

[Blackas87]

Pick 18 plus something to Brisbane for Beams.

Picks 5 and 18 to Fremantle for Neale.

Picks 5 and 18 to Melbourne for Hogan.

Brisbane would be insane to trade Beams with pick 18 the main piece.

Beams probably a bit ahead of Neale but let’s call them even. They would be effectively giving up Beams and 5 for Neale, they’d be better off not trading at all.

 

[Rich01]

You have only quoted some of the statement. The sentence before reads:

"While discussions were proceeding it became clear that what Melbourne would be seeking for a trade would not be possible for our club to meet."

Melbourne issued an ultimatum. Freo decided that Hogan was not worth the asking price. If the asking price was lower, Freo wouldn’t have walked away.

It’s up to the buyer and seller to satisfy each other. Clearly different to what you’ve said.

What you quoted is true.
Fremantle walked away from the trade.
They backed out, they withdrew.
Call it what you like.

But it was Fremantle that issued the statement that they would not be proceeding with the trade.

Good on them.
Although I wouldn’t be surprised if they flip flapped, just like they did with the way they have treated Harley Bennell.

It’s pretty amusing them playing the tough guy stance, knowing they will slink back to the table tomorrow.

 

[raffrox]

Heh. Quite the twist on what was said on Friday by Bell...

"As such, we have informed Melbourne and Jesse’s management that we will not be continuing further with the due diligence process."

Freo has backed out of the trade, not Melbourne.

It’s up to the buyer to satisfy the seller. A difficult concept for some to understand it seems.

Are you talking about Brissy with Neale, West Coast with Kelly, Pies with Beams, Hawks with Wingard or the Dee's with May?

All of those guys are contracted and priorities for the team trading for them.

Last I checked those deals haven't happened either.

It's just that the Dee's have been disingenuous and the Vic media has been lapping it up.

 

[space_cowboy]

You have only quoted some of the statement. The sentence before reads:

"While discussions were proceeding it became clear that what Melbourne would be seeking for a trade would not be possible for our club to meet."

Melbourne issued an ultimatum. Freo decided that Hogan was not worth the asking price. If the asking price was lower, Freo wouldn’t have walked away.

It’s up to the buyer and seller to satisfy each other. Clearly different to what you’ve said.

Ultimatum

noun

1. a final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations.
   
   Though I'd put that up there so you Freo folks could brush up on your vocabulary. No charge.

 

[Rich01]

Are you talking about Brissy with Neale, West Coast with Kelly, Pies with Beams, Hawks with Wingard or the Dee's with May?

All of those guys are contracted and priorities for the team trading for them.

Last I checked those deals haven't happened either.

It's just that the Dee's have been disingenuous and the Vic media has been lapping it up.

All your examples are valid.
The buyer has to satisfy the seller.
It’s not a difficult principle to understand.

Have Hawthorn, Brisbane, Melbourne, Collingwood cracked the shits and publicly stated they are not willing to proceed in getting these players to their clubs?

Or is it just the rookie at your club that thinks withdrawing their interest is the best way to get a marquee player to their club?

Baffling.

 

[Dees 87]

That would be perfect

Lions happy with that ?

 

[raffrox]

All your examples are valid.
The buyer has to satisfy the seller.
It’s not a difficult principle to understand.

Have Hawthorn, Brisbane, Melbourne, Collingwood cracked the shits and publicly stated they are not willing to proceed in getting these players to their clubs?

Or is it just the rookie at your club that thinks withdrawing their interest is the best way to get a marquee player to their club?

Baffling.

Dee's came out first and stated that they had their deal and that was that, no negotiations. All while leaking to the media. WA media has reported this in the last few days while even some Vic reporters are softening because they actually realise what's been happening. Jon Ralph's recent article is a good example. To be straight, they were using the media to squeeze us and we told them to go get stuffed.

Don't blame Freo because you fell for the media shitstorm.

 

[Ge3ks]

Well said.

 

[smokingjacket]

Should probably use the 71 game mark. That’s how I’ve worked it. Hogan spent his whole first eligible season injured so if anything would have held his development back. A few others spent time in state leagues during first 2 or so season.

He had better development opportunities than most players. He was drafted in 2012, and played for Casey in 2013 before his season ended at the halfway point due to a knee injury, then 2014 he didn't get on the park at all due to a back injury.

This is history I had forgotten and really questions how durable he is. He's played at Melbourne and Casey for 6 years, and in that time he had:

• a 12 game season with Casey before season ending knee injury in 2013
  
• a season ending back injury where he didn't play a single game in 2014
  
• minor injuries in 2015, and 2016 that stopped him from completing the season
  
• major injury and illness in 2017
  
• finished early in 2018 with another major injury that has ended some careers but we think, maybe, he'll be ok

This is a brutal injury record for any player. Before this thread became a slanging match over the trade negotiations we had a few Dees fans explain why they thought Jesse was going to be a great player and their emotional attachment to Jesse as a player during the rebuild years. I think Dees fans need to accept that their valuation of Jesse Hogan unavoidably comes with a large amount of emotion that they've projected on to Jesse the struggles of the club and its rebuild. I'm not saying this is a bad thing by the way, Fremantle fans are known for their irrational loyalty to certain players and emotional connection to players. What I am saying is, if you look at that injury record, the type of injuries he's had - knee, back, shoulder, foot, hamstrings - ie. he's doing soft tissue injuries AND skeletal injuries, it's unlikely that Jesse will ever complete a full season of AFL football. There's a chance that his body could settle as he gets older but any club would be taking an enormous risk on that considering players with this sort of injury record tend towards further chronic injuries.

 

[gutsroy]

Apparently the west coast media have implied it, and a few people have posted “proof” (a video that realistically shows nothing from 18 months ago when Hogan’s father wasn’t great)

Most players in the league dabble in party drugs. Some morons in this thread want to claim that means Hogan’s a druggie

They’re so concerned about how welfare that they’re starting rumours of him being a drug addict

Aah, ok, yeah, from memory, there were a couple of photos of him smoking a cigarette at one stage that were blown completely out of proportion once the situation at the time became clear.
Seems there might be similar hyperbole around now.

 

[Rich01]

Dee's came out first and stated that they had their deal and that was that, no negotiations.

No they didn’t.

The only direct quotes we have on this trade comes from Bell. Although I believe this public statement to be a lie, and he will slink back to the trade table on Monday morning.

 

[Barrysballs]

Jon Ralph, Herald Sun

Neale is a free agent who will walk from Fremantle - albeit for a compensation pick - and will spend the year stewing given he has already told Ross Lyon, Steve Rosich and Peter Bell he won’t play for them =
COMPLETELY MADE THIS SHIT UP GO READ NEALES B&F SPEACH

"But while the downside of Fremantle passing on Hogan is that they will never again have the chance to recruit him, the Demons just play Hogan for a year, trade him as a non-free agent then get May as a free agent next year=
SO WE NEVER HAVE THE CHANCE TO GET HOGAN AGAIN BUT MAY AUTOMATICALLY GOES TO MELBOURNE NEXT YEAR ????

Fremantle will lose Neale in 12 months and still have done little to solve their forward woes=
IF YOU CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE TELL ME SOMETHING BLOODY USEFULL LIKE THE LOTTO NUMBERS YOU PARROT

 

[raffrox]

No they didn’t.

The only direct quotes we have on this trade comes from Bell. Although I believe this public statement to be a lie, and he will slink back to the trade table on Monday morning.

Straight lies or ignorance.

Mahoney had a press conference where he said that they had told Freo what would get the deal done and it was up to them to meet their needs and oh by the way we really want May and need Jesse to leave to get that deal done.

We haven't seen the other clubs I've mentioned grandstanding like this.

Mahoney has been in the media a few times so you are actually completely wrong.

 

[gutsroy]

Going on media reports, Melbourne want the top 6/7 pick to then trade on to Gold Coast for May, not to use on the draft. They originally wanted two top 10 picks to get May and also pick a top talent, but realized Freo wouldn’t pay that price.
So if Gold Coast would accept pick 11 for May, this thing would be done.

OK, had wondered what GCS's May price was, I guess most clubs with players to offer are keen to get themselves up into the top 6-7 picks in particular.
Fwiw, a pick around the mid first round mark seems reasonable enough for May to me as an outsider and 6 too high, but I guess it comes down to supply and demand and it seems a few are keen.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Not a troll. 6 and a future would have done the Hogan deal last week.

Seems like since Melbourne have softened to 5 and 23 already that 6 and a future (i assume you mean first) is too much.

Given the number of trades that go down on the last day i think waiting to throw stones would probs be best

 

[Barrysballs]

No they didn’t.

The only direct quotes we have on this trade comes from Bell. Although I believe this public statement to be a lie, and he will slink back to the trade table on Monday morning.

MELBOURNE are open to moving Jesse Hogan to Fremantle during next week’s trade period, but it would require them receiving a historically good return for the young key forward, according to head of football Josh Mahoney.

We think he’s going to be right up at the highest that anyone has been traded for and we think that Fremantle have that opportunity with some picks that they may gain.” Josh Mahoney

 

[gutsroy]

He had better development opportunities than most players. He was drafted in 2012, and played for Casey in 2013 before his season ended at the halfway point due to a knee injury, then 2014 he didn't get on the park at all due to a back injury.

This is history I had forgotten and really questions how durable he is. He's played at Melbourne and Casey for 6 years, and in that time he had:

• a 12 game season with Casey before season ending knee injury in 2013
  
• a season ending back injury where he didn't play a single game in 2014
  
• minor injuries in 2015, and 2016 that stopped him from completing the season
  
• major injury and illness in 2017
  
• finished early in 2018 with another major injury that has ended some careers but we think, maybe, he'll be ok

This is a brutal injury record for any player. Before this thread became a slanging match over the trade negotiations we had a few Dees fans explain why they thought Jesse was going to be a great player and their emotional attachment to Jesse as a player during the rebuild years. I think Dees fans need to accept that their valuation of Jesse Hogan unavoidably comes with a large amount of emotion that they've projected on to Jesse the struggles of the club and its rebuild. I'm not saying this is a bad thing by the way, Fremantle fans are known for their irrational loyalty to certain players and emotional connection to players. What I am saying is, if you look at that injury record, the type of injuries he's had - knee, back, shoulder, foot, hamstrings - ie. he's doing soft tissue injuries AND skeletal injuries, it's unlikely that Jesse will ever complete a full season of AFL football. There's a chance that his body could settle as he gets older but any club would be taking an enormous risk on that considering players with this sort of injury record tend towards further chronic injuries.

It's a fair point and something that has to be factored in, on exposed form he doesn't have the durability. Hasn't been mentioned much.
That would impact the price suitors are prepared to pay, offset to an extent by his proven ability / scarcity of players of his type, and he's actually pretty versatile.
Can see both Freo's and Melbourne's perspectives, doesn't have to be a case of right and wrong, just differing valuations. No point doing a deal just to do a deal if the value isn't there.

 

[Rich01]

Mahoney had a press conference where he said that they had told Freo what would get the deal done and it was up to them to meet their needs and oh by the way we really want May and need Jesse to leave to get that deal done.

Your angry paraphrasing above states:

1. It’s up to the buyer to satisfy the seller. No shit. How difficult is this for the average human to understand. Although some here have massive difficulty.

2. They are into May. No shit.

3. They will probably need some of the assets they get from the Hogan trade to get May done. No shit. They don’t have a first rounder this year.

I’m not sure why you would get your back up about any of this. It’s not unreasonable and is not some biased Victorian conspiracy against your club.

It’s your list manager being petulant. But we will see him flip back again on Monday.

 

[Tom14]

Brisbane would be insane to trade Beams with pick 18 the main piece.

Beams probably a bit ahead of Neale but let’s call them even. They would be effectively giving up Beams and 5 for Neale, they’d be better off not trading at all.

Lions happy with that ?

No. Neale worth more than Beams given his age but he isn't worth 5 + beams.

If we get more out of collingwood we may do something with those picks.