Jim Stynes Herald Sun Victorian of the year.

[Skids]

Based on people telling me and business relations so to speak. "We need more exposure in order to get more funding and resources, help us".

OK, so we're dealing with anecdotal evidence. But I see nothing wrong with the claim they need more exposure, I'm sure it's true. And I don't think anybody's claim that giving an RFDS person would increase their exposure.

My wife works for a charity and I spend a bit of time helping her. Ultimately the Flying Doctor is going underfunded so the charity spreads out with there extra resources to try and help them which im a part of.

Cool, nothing here to dispute.

I just think its a bit wrong that the Flying Doctor goes underfunded while others get pretty much overfunded.

I think it's a problem for all charitable organizations. I don't know how you decide which is more worthy. I remeber reading that charities dealing with 'unloved' cancers couldn't get enough exposure because of the 'pink monster' of breast cancer. But I wonder if it's a zero-sum game.

Its a problem that needs fixing and papers like the HUN arnt helping

No, I doubt the HUN would deliberately help. But it still doesn't answer the question, that while giving it to a person from another charity would undoubledly boost that charity somewhat, would it be a bigger overall benefit? Which I took to be your point. Because if all your aguing is that it would boost another charity, then I agree. But will it detract from Styne's charity at the expense of another? Or not? I don't know how you weigh it up. Honestly, I don't. Not having a go at you, just trying to work it out.

 

[00Stinger]

Check out his passport and past allegiances. Its not different to the Daily Telegraph naming Leonardo DiCaprio New South Welshman of the year.

How can you question someones heritage. Its pretty clear cut. He is Irish

So the prime minister is Welsh, right?

 

[Tassieboy]

+1.

Although to be fair I don't know anything he's done except get sick/serve as an inspiration to many.

 

[LouisCK]

So the prime minister is Welsh, right?

And the opposition leader is British.

And I'm Irish, West African, English, Scottish, French and Aborigine.

But not Australian.

 

[Skids]

So the prime minister is Welsh, right?

And Richard Pratt was European, Andrew Bolt is pretty much dutch, The Westfield guy is European, Crazy John Illan was Turkish, etc.
That's just not an argument. He's as Victorian as the next, unless he says he isn't....
*Not disagreeing with you, just agreeing here.

 

[00Stinger]

And the opposition leader is British.

And I'm Irish, West African, English, Scottish, French and Aborigine.

But not Australian.

So you are 16.67% Australian

 

[Skids]

So you are 16.67% Australian

What if s/he was born outside of Australia, to a part aboriginal parent?

 

[00Stinger]

What if s/he was born outside of Australia, to a part aboriginal parent?

Not sure, maybe Coledinho would be kind enough to enlighten us

 

[Suspense]

i didn't even know i was competing.


setting myself for a big pre season and gonna have a red hot go at victorian of the year 2012.

 

[Skids]

i didn't even know i was competing.


setting myself for a big pre season and gonna have a red hot go at victorian of the year 2012.

I'm withdrawing. Soft-tissue issues.

 

[Ando727]

Outside of the public spotlight Id say there would be more worthy nominees who would gain more from receiving the award then a Brownlow medalist like Jim Stynes.

So your thoughts are based on pure supposition. You can't actually name somebody who might fit your criteria. You just assume that they exist. They may not exist though. The candidates for Victorian of the Year are nominated by people who know them, then a decision is made. How can you be so sure that Jim wasn't the most worthy candidate?

Im surprised you wouldnt want him to be rememberes as Jim Stynes the footballer as opposed to Jim Stynes, the football director and cancer victim. I dont really think Jim Stynes needs to be used to sell newspapers personally. All well and good to tell his story for inspiration but its been told. Let him live his life

Actually, as good as his football story is, it is the less significant part of his life. He has achieved far more off the field than on it. That's why they don't just focus on his football career. I think you are very footy-centric. It's just a game. Jim has saved the lives of many young people and since his cancer story, he may well have inspired many people of different ages to keep fighting their disease.

 

[Coledinho]

So the prime minister is Welsh, right?

Pretty much. If she was in America she wouldnt be president, same rule applies in many many other countries too dont forget. Although I dont think she represented Wales in any sport or has dual citizenship so its a bit off the cuff and is a pretty small point in comparison to the big picture.

Ill put it this way. Is Tadhg Kennelly Australian?

 

[Coledinho]

So your thoughts are based on pure supposition. You can't actually name somebody who might fit your criteria. You just assume that they exist. They may not exist though. The candidates for Victorian of the Year are nominated by people who know them, then a decision is made. How can you be so sure that Jim wasn't the most worthy candidate?



Actually, as good as his football story is, it is the less significant part of his life. He has achieved far more off the field than on it. That's why they don't just focus on his football career. I think you are very footy-centric. It's just a game. Jim has saved the lives of many young people and since his cancer story, he may well have inspired many people of different ages to keep fighting their disease.

I could personally name two people from Melbourne more worthy not in the public spotlight but wouldnt for obvious reasons. Also think your confusing Herald Sun Victorian of the year, with the actual Victorian of the Year.

I think your being very media-centric. Dont have to be in the spotlight to inspire others. Its a shame that most Australians think that way. Chris Judd has a point regarding the whole role model thing when you look at the way things have changed over the past decade

 

[LouisCK]

The Irish are a race.

Wow, Bigfooty is always teaching.

Personally, I think you're being racist towards the Perthians.

Racism, as legally defined in Australian legislation, is any discrimination against someone based on ethnic background, nationality, race or religion.

The term 'race' is a social construct anyway, there is no universally agreed list of 'races' by genetic difference, because its impossible to accept 'race' as a scientific concept. But please, if you think you have some kind of list of all races, please type it out and let me hear it. No? Didn't think so.

Furthermore, its ludicrous to suggest there isn't an established Irish people with their own language, history, nation, culture and experience.

So yes, in that sense "Irish" is a race, and there is a long history of racism towards them in Melbourne and Sydney (mind you, this was about 100 years ago).

It seems Perth needs to catch up.

 

[Coledinho]

Racism, as legally defined in Australian legislation, is any discrimination against someone based on ethnic background, nationality, race or religion.

So yes, in that sense "Irish" is a race, and there is a long history of racism towards them in Melbourne and Sydney (mind you, this was about 100 years ago).

It seems Perth needs to catch up.

As does America, China, Russia, Japan, South Korea and even England it seems. Australia seems to be the only country to adopt the false philosophy that if you have lived in two different countries and one is Australia that means your Australian

Id assume you also have a problem with Naitanui and Folau going to Fiji to promote the game on the basis of there Fijian heritage. Should just send over Ablett and Judd next time surely...

Could take a soccer example in Lionel Messi. Hes lived a larger proportion of his life in Spain then he has in Argentina (12 years to 11) and ive never not once heard people refer to him as Spanish. He is Argentinian still in everyones eyes

 

[LouisCK]

As does America, China, Russia, Japan, South Korea and even England it seems. Australia seems to be the only country to adopt the false philosophy that if you have lived in two different countries and one is Australia that means your Australian

Id assume you also have a problem with Naitanui and Folau going to Fiji to promote the game on the basis of there Fijian heritage. Should just send over Ablett and Judd next time surely...

Sorry, but your response doesn't seem to match my post at all. Quote the wrong person perhaps?

Australia recognises dual citizenship, so you can be both Irish and Australian.

Many countries don't do this. But most European democracies do. I wouldn't think this is a hard concept to grasp.

As for Naita, sure thing, its great if he goes and promotes the game in Fiji - what from my post gave you the impression that I wouldn't support that? He can be both Fijian, and Australian (Folau shouldn't be promoting the game at all, he'll be dreadful at it).

Remember, YOU are the one saying that a person can only be one nationality.

I'd be interested to hear your take on a number of my mates: they were born in Cambodia, and had to move to Melbourne when they were infants because their parents were executed in the worst genocide in human history. They were raised by Aussie parents, in Australia, went to Australian schools, speak only English and are as Australian as anyone else. But according to you, they are Cambodian? Would that sum up your position about right?

 

[Skids]

As does America, China, Russia, Japan, South Korea and even England it seems. Australia seems to be the only country to adopt the false philosophy that if you have lived in two different countries and one is Australia that means your Australian

False philosophy? What is this? Cultural cringe. Just because you claim that nation X,Y & Z do something, it doesn't mean we automatically are bound by it. It's not a false philosophy, it's just not their country to decide. (Although the US does have a lot of influence...)Really, the Australian government nationalizes people, and they are therefore AUstralians

Id assume you also have a problem with Naitanui and Folau going to Fiji to promote the game on the basis of there Fijian heritage. Should just send over Ablett and Judd next time surely...

Change of subject. They are Australians with pacific island heritage. What does it have to do with Stynes, who's a nationalized Aussie?

Could take a soccer example in Lionel Messi. Hes lived a larger proportion of his life in Spain then he has in Argentina (12 years to 11) and ive never not once heard people refer to him as Spanish. He is Argentinian still in everyones eyes

Another change of subject. He's not a nationalized Spaniard, so it isn't the same as Stynes.

You seemed to have an argument regarding giving other charities the spotlight. It was worth discussing. But this is just silly. You don't decide for others if they feel Australian on not.

 

[Coledinho]

Sorry, but your response doesn't seem to match my post at all. Quote the wrong person perhaps?

Australia recognises dual citizenship, so you can be both Irish and Australian.

Many countries don't do this. But most European democracies do. I wouldn't think this is a hard concept to grasp.

As for Naita, sure thing, its great if he goes and promotes the game in Fiji - what from my post gave you the impression that I wouldn't support that? He can be both Fijian, and Australian (Folau shouldn't be promoting the game at all, he'll be dreadful at it).

Remember, YOU are the one saying that a person can only be one nationality.

I'd be interested to hear your take on a number of my mates: they were born in Cambodia, and had to move to Melbourne when they were infants because their parents were executed in the worst genocide in human history. They were raised by Aussie parents, in Australia, went to Australian schools, speak only English and are as Australian as anyone else. But according to you, they are Cambodian? Would that sum up your position about right?

Seems to be a concept your not grasping man. A huge majority go against the Australain stance

Id say they Australian because they were raised in Australia completely. They would be Australian with Cambodian heritage. Jim Stynes is Irish with Australian citizenship. Thats the way a majority of the world defines it. Bar Europe of course and largely that is because of the creation of the EU lets not forget

 

[Coledinho]

False philosophy? What is this? Cultural cringe. Just because you claim that nation X,Y & Z do something, it doesn't mean we automatically are bound by it. It's not a false philosophy, it's just not their country to decide. (Although the US does have a lot of influence...)Really, the Australian government nationalizes people, and they are therefore AUstralians

Change of subject. They are Australians with pacific island heritage. What does it have to do with Stynes, who's a nationalized Aussie?

Another change of subject. He's not a nationalized Spaniard, so it isn't the same as Stynes.

You seemed to have an argument regarding giving other charities the spotlight. It was worth discussing. But this is just silly. You don't decide for others if they feel Australian on not.

Ah yes he is. He has Spanish citizenship.

I dont decide if they ARE Australian or not. Thats what laws are for. Here he would be classed as both. In a legal sense elsewhere he would also be classed as Irish. Random and dumb exampe If army forces captured him they would actually send him to Ireland oddly enough (send you back to country of naturalisation)

 

[LouisCK]

Seems to be a concept your not grasping man. A huge majority go against the Australain stance

No they do not. All EU member states allow dual citizenship. As do a raft of other countries, including the US, NZ and Canada.

 

[LouisCK]

Ah yes he is. He has Spanish citizenship.

I dont decide if they ARE Australian or not. Thats what laws are for. Here he would be classed as both. In a legal sense elsewhere he would also be classed as Irish. Random and dumb exampe If army forces captured him they would actually send him to Ireland oddly enough (send you back to country of naturalisation)

His country of naturalisation, and residence, is Australia.

He is 100% Australian. And 100% Irish. He is a dual citizen.

You're really messed up in the head, you know that?

 

[Coledinho]

His country of naturalisation, and residence, is Australia.

He is 100% Australian. And 100% Irish. He is a dual citizen.

You're really messed up in the head, you know that?

Naturalisation means where you grew up... Thought that went without saying

If im messed up in the head, theres 5 billion more of me. Thats kind of scary for you isnt it

 

[Coledinho]

No they do not. All EU member states allow dual citizenship. As do a raft of other countries, including the US, NZ and Canada.

Its a different dual citizenship system altogether. Like comparing a apple with a orange. Look it up before you say I dont know facts man

 

[LouisCK]

Its a different dual citizenship system altogether. Like comparing a apple with a orange. Look it up before you say I dont know facts man

Look, I don't even know why this is even a topic worth discussing, it has ZERO relevance to the thread. But just to make sure I'm being fair before I pop you on the ignore list for being so deadset boring:

If you like, why don't you outline your case, in one post, for why Jim Styne's status as a dual citizen of Ireland and Australia (whilst being a permanent resident of Australia for over 25 years) should have any bearing on whether he wins a 'Victorian of the Year' award handed out by a newspaper, which can presumably make up its own qualifying criteria as it sees fit anyway... or indeed any other award where the criteria would be that you have to be an Australian citizen (a box he ticks immediately)? He's had an OAM, worked on Federal Committees and won the ACTUAL Victorian of the year award back in 2004, before his illness.

If your point is that you don't like foreign born people being eligible for the office of Prime Minister, well, that's a whole different thread: maybe you should go start it and have a chat with all the dropkick's that inhabit the SRP board.

 

[Coledinho]

Look, I don't even know why this is even a topic worth discussing, it has ZERO relevance to the thread. But just to make sure I'm being fair before I pop you on the ignore list for being so deadset boring:

If you like, why don't you outline your case, in one post, for why Jim Styne's status as a dual citizen of Ireland and Australia (whilst being a permanent resident of Australia for over 25 years) should have any bearing on whether he wins a 'Victorian of the Year' award handed out by a newspaper, which can presumably make up its own qualifying criteria as it sees fit anyway... or indeed any other award where the criteria would be that you have to be an Australian citizen (a box he ticks immediately)? He's had an OAM, worked on Federal Committees and won the ACTUAL Victorian of the year award back in 2004, before his illness.

If your point is that you don't like foreign born people being eligible for the office of Prime Minister, well, that's a whole different thread: maybe you should go start it and have a chat with all the dropkick's that inhabit the SRP board.

Your so far away from my actual point its scary. Did you actually read my posts or what? Anyway im bored of it too. To restate my point again is pointles so to speak